so whats the social scene of USNA like?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
41

<p>OH yeah, the social scene.</p>

<p>Let's see . . . 3,200 highly-motivated young men.
800 highly-motivated young women.</p>

<p>Trouble is bound to be lurking around each corner. BUT, for the most part, the girls [women] around here are seen as friends and comrades first. For some, love blooms but, for most, it does not.</p>

<p>It works out. Beside, it is kind of fun to hang around those who have something other than the Navy to talk about. ON the other hand, that sometimes makes for tortured conversation.</p>

42

<p>Since you mentioned JOEs and it has to do with the social scene at Annapolis to some extend, could some mids weigh in on that issue? Is the label thrown around a lot, and is it usually deserved? I mean it seems from what I've heard that some people are unjustly given the (deragatory) label....</p>

43

<p>
[quote]
hmmmm. . . as if you know what it takes to be taken seriously? That is, if I recall correctly, not that you have ever attended a single day here.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Jamtex- with all due respect for someone "there and doing it"....</p>

<p>I have not attended a single day there as a midshipman. I have spent lots as a parent, and in other capacities as well. I am also a keen observer, student and teacher of human behavior. My studies continue to take me on deep dives into "what makes us tick" to this day.</p>

<p>I am also in a profession where I have learned - first hand- what it takes to be taken seriously in an institution and profession - in not one, but two- that have been dominated by the other gender, with its roots as deeply embeded as the military establishment. The skill sets are the same.</p>

<p>I also have the experience of raising children, including teaching them how to stand on their own two feet. No doubt lessons you have learned, and perhaps someday will pass on should you be so blessed. We could go on and on, point and counter point, but I am not sure what purpose it would serve. The common ground is that life is an experience- it doesn't matter much were you spend it, you get shaped by it nevertheless.... the good, the bad, the glorious and the ugly. What it "takes" for you to be taken seriously is unique to you.... and it will not be the same for the guy or gal standing next to you in line. There may be traits that are common- but in the end, it is how YOU relate to people, how YOU give respect, how YOU interact, guide, mentor, accept, tolerate, listen, react.... the very words YOU choose, that ultimately makes the difference.</p>

<p>
[quote]
at the end of the day all she did was die. In her sleep.

[/quote]

And in her short life - and short time at the academy- made enough of an impression on HER peers that they chose to honor her this way. At the end of the day we all have to look inward to see how we have distinguished ourselves this day.... and it is ALWAYS the heap that gets you there.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Nonetheless, his "stand upedness" [is that a word?] is sometimes held against him because he is SO smart and straight. I suspect women face a similar problem.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is not unique to any "group" that creates the challenge, insofar as it is the mere fact that you stand apart. Stand at the top, at the bottom, be different in the middle, and it opens the door for comments from those less tolerant, less able to adapt, less mature to give another their "due." It's the nasty green monster lurking beneath that causes one to scrutinize another in order to "justify" one's own position, whatever that may be.</p>

<p>To genuinely recognize, respect, acknowledge, etc, etc, etc.... all part of being secure with yourself first, being happy with what you see, and then being able to recognize and appreciate greatness in others.</p>

<p>MIDN Dickmann may have passed away in her sleep. Maybe she deserves the honor, maybe not. But enough of her peers were able to see her greatness, no matter how small or insignificant it may have been.... but in her passing, and in their decision to place a female cover on the top of Herndon, collectively the huge mass that "got that" worked together to get that cover up to the top... and that speaks volumes to me. </p>

<p>I did not have the pleasure of meeting her, although I have heard many stories from those that did. Collectively, they have pulled on my heartstrings, much as it would for any parent losing a child (and you are all our children until we take our last breath). What moved me to tears, however, was not the stories, but that one picture that captured a female cover on the top of Herndon. For me, it represented so much more than just her short time at the Academy, and I can only wonder if that one small act will be the turning point. It is, at the very least, a start.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Trouble is bound to be lurking around each corner. BUT, for the most part, the girls [women] around here are seen as friends and comrades first.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>and, unfortunately, there are a few that have absolutely no idea of what respect for women entails. And on that issue, I am positive.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You are correct, though, all you do is be yourself and then let the chips fall where they may.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Alas, I do know something about being taken seriously.</p>

<p>Will leave you with this one to think about....
"you get what you tolerate, therefore you get what you deserve."</p>

44

<p>talk about recognizing and appreciating the greatness in others....</p>

<p>just want to thank LongC90 and undercoveraviator for raising the questions they did back on page 1. No doubt they got more than they perhaps bargained for, but I will mark it as one of the most important topics "brought to the floor" in my 3+ years here.</p>

45

<p>Just a quick in-n-out . . .</p>

<p>I should have written "here" as in ". . . what it takes to be taken seriously HERE."</p>

<p>What I find annoying about some of your posts--and it seems that others who have been HERE do also--is that they are written in a semi-first person style that, for somebody who has not been on this site for some time, might be interpreted as coming from somebody who has been HERE. That is, you do not seem to qualify statements w/ something like: "based on my real job, you are taken seriously by . . . "
I will not get into a back and forth w/ you either, just as I don't with some of the other blowhards on this site . . . but your second post makes reference to your life experience in making the declaration as to what it takes be taken seriously HERE. That is a legitimate post.
To the extent that your experience in a male-dominated profession transfer to the unique experience of HERE, then your points are well-taken. However, w/out qualification, for you to "suggest a good place to start" w/ taken seriously just grates on my nerves a bit--especially when taken in context w/ all of your other posts.</p>

<p>But that's just me. For example, "just being yourself" may or may not result in one being taken seriously. There are plenty of jerks here who are "being themself" that are not taken seriously. There are some people who, as themselves, are natural born leaders who are "taken seriously" from day one. For most of us, however, part of the education here is to LEARN --not that some seem to recognize this--how to be taken seriously, as an officer, as a leader, as an adult. If it was as easy as "being yourself" then there would be no purpose behind the Academy, we could all just be the same person we were coming out of high school.</p>

<p>REALLY . . . to incoming plebes: Don't sweat the petty stuff. [I seriously want to say "just pet the sweaty stuff" but I am sure that would be disrespecting women somehow] Just focus on what you are being told and follow instruction. Try your best . . . all of the time. Get through the summer. Get through the year. Ther est will fall in place.</p>

<p>Yes. At least in my opinion. The label is thrown about more than it should. In fact, it has been applied, in the past, to some who post on here. In part, it's thrown about in the same way "conservative" or "liberal" is thrown about as aterm of derision: By people who have nothing better to do, don't know of what they speak, and, as has been pointed out here, are probably jealous of hos "easy" somepeople seem to have it or how "by the book" others are.
Just an observation.</p>

46

<p>hmmm- not sure where to start.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What I find annoying about some of your posts--and it seems that others who have been HERE do also--is that they are written in a semi-first person style that, for somebody who has not been on this site for some time, might be interpreted as coming from somebody who has been HERE.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I identify myself as a parent- specifically, USNA Parent Class of 2010. To the observant it is clear enough. Written in first person is that my comments are written and shared from my experience- either direct or indirect, encountered or observed. Opinions are identified as such, as in "IMO." I will take the comment about "qualifying" statements as constructive....quite frankly, it can usually be inferred within the context, but if you think it will make the distinction clearer I will try to remember to do so. As for others "THERE" that are "also annoyed," not sure how to respond except to say that when "I" am annoyed it is "me" that speaks for "myself." I trust your peers will speak up for themselves if they are annoyed enough to take the time; if not, I will consider their level of annoyance to be within their level of tolerance... </p>

<p>In the context of "just be yourself," what was being referred to was how to find one's place on the feminine spectrum in a male dominated environment- and unless I am mistaken, this is something you are not in a position to experience first hand. "Just be yourself"... meaning, if YOU feel like being "girly" today, "less so" tomorrow, whatever.... it's your choice. "Just be yourself" as in "don't do it for anyone other than yourself, to the degree you want to do it, when you want and how you want to do it." "Just be yourself" as in "to thine own self be true." To do it for any other reason is deceiving only oneself. </p>

<p>
[quote]
[I seriously want to say "just pet the sweaty stuff" but I am sure that would be disrespecting women somehow]

[/quote]
</p>

<p>you **THINK **that would be disrespecting women somehow?????
How about running that by your SAVI group and see what THEY think! Better yet, catch the Dant and run it by her before she packs out of there and see what she "thinks!"<br>
RIGHT.
Keep "thinking."</p>

<p>
[quote]
Try your best . . . all of the time. Get through the summer. Get through the year. The rest will fall in place.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Would love to give you credit for an origional thought, but alas, the message is ** no different **from the advice posted by this parent, other parents, the alumni, the BGO's and all the other "blowhards" on here. </p>

<p>As for people having "better things to do..."
You are right, we have better things we can be doing.<br>
I would venture to say that includes "you."
Nevertheless, I consider this "good work."
Appreciated by some, discarded by others.
For those that post, obviously there is something in it for "them."</p>

<p>So what's in it for "me."
I have been on the receiving end of help, advice, answers and humor when I have needed it, if only to gain a better understanding of what MY mid is experiencing....there have even been times when I have noted things from YOUR posts....usually the ones where you have stuck to higher ground. </p>

<p>I come back to offer what I can, from a parents perspective- which is very different from where you sit, where alumni sit, and where BGO's sit. No one has the "whole 360".... but collectively, we can draw the picture.</p>

<p>As for gaining respect.
Gaining respect is hard.
And one does not go about it, IMO, by bullying, belittling others, finding fault, pointing fingers, name calling, attempts to drive others away, and certainly not by demanding it. One gains it by walking the talk, exceeding the standards and expectations, assisting and mentoring others who need it so they can achieve, appreciating each for their strengths and working on the areas that challenge. THAT gets one respect- and it is NO DIFFERENT whether you are on the yard or off it. Wait- let me correct that.... I would venture to say that from where I sit, it might be a bit easier on the yard.... afterall, you have stripes that demand at least one's compliance, even if it lasts for only the length of a salute. Us "outsiders" have no such triggers. </p>

<p>
[quote]
For most of us, however, part of the education here is to LEARN --not that some seem to recognize this--how to be taken seriously, as an officer, as a leader, as an adult.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A final note. Consider it my personal lesson on leadership.</p>

<p>You know what you know.
What is the bigger challenge is knowing what it is you don't know that you need to know.
And it is not until you are "humbled" that you start to realize there is a whole heap more you need to know.<br>
And when you learn that it is impossible to know it all, you learn to appreciate others and what they know, for "collectively" the whole can know more than you can ever know alone.
And when you learn to appreciate the "collective wisdom" of others, you learn humility.
And when you learn humility, you learn to listen.
And when you learn to REALLY LISTEN, you learn to respect those speaking.
And when you learn to respect others, you learn to forgive.
And when you learn to forgive, you gain respect.
And when you put all those things into place, and gain that respect, then you can be trusted.
And when you can be trusted, you can lead.
And when you can lead others, you learn to guide.
And when you learn to guide, you learn to teach.
And when you learn to teach, you realize it is the purest form of leadership one can achieve, and YOU learn to trust that THEY will learn..
And when you learn to trust, you learn tolerance toward those struggling with knowing.
And it is in the learning of teaching and tolerance that the circle gets completed... contributing to the collective knowledge for those that don't yet know what it is they don't know that they need to know.</p>

<p>Sorta like the way I view the posters on CC.
All here, depite having better things to do, spending the most valuable commidity they have- their time- to contribute to the collective knowledge of all.</p>

<p>Just my observation.
From my experience as student, leader, teacher.... and parent. Time tested, not perfect, but still learning, still striving... and at times, still struggling with the lesson of tolerance.</p>

47

<p>I believe you've nailed it sir JamTex. </p>

<p>You know, I love the UNC Tarheels ... except for one really obnoxious trait that persists about Chapel Hillians. It's usually better and more palatable if others tell you how great you are instead of being compelled to self-proclaim it. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I have spent lots as a parent, and in other capacities as well.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I believe a great many could vouch for the understated truth in that statement! New definition to helicopter mommy! :eek:</p>

48

<p>Hey WP: Is all of the above Freud or Jung. I am so confused. Seems like too many Psych Majors interjecting stream of consciousness.</p>

49

<p>I have to agree with Jamtex on this one. It really is different from the outside. Although parents do receive an inkling of what goes on from their Mids, it is only a small part (at least I hope so). This leads me to one piece of advice, what happens in the wardroom stays in the wardroom. Issues are handled internally and not recounted in public. Sometimes I feel that some people project complete knowledge of the SAs after their child attends one year, which is interesting. It is a large complex and what happens in 30th Company may not even be heard in 1st. You really had to have attended to understand what it is really about.</p>

50

<p>AF6872 ... I sense you're confused. :confused: Tell us more about what you're feeling. But don't worry, I'm ok, and so is everyone else! I only need to get in touch with my parent and ditch my child!:eek:</p>

<p>Your pal,
Carl Rogers</p>

51

<p>I think I am ALSO a keen studen, observer, and teacher of human behavior. [Doesn't EVERYBODY think that about themself?] Does that make me a psychologist?</p>

<p>Interesting observation about Mid Dickmann that JamTex makes. Was SHE the one respected and, hence, honored by having her cover placed on the obelisk or could it have been ANY female mid who would have been so honored had she died the week before Herndon? </p>

<p>The follow-up question is also intereting: Had Dickmann--or any plebe for that matter--died earlier in the year, would he/she have been so honored? [I guess, in this case, the question really concerns a female mid.]</p>

<p>Last question: Do women not pet sweaty stuff? Is that why women find the comment demeaning but men do not?</p>

52

<p>nope- not a psychologist by any means!!!! My focus is on medical ethics however.</p>

<p>
[quote]
honored by having her cover placed on the obelisk or could it have been ANY female mid who would have been so honored had she died the week before Herndon?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>who's to say- let's hope we don't even have another opportunity to find out</p>

<p>
[quote]
The follow-up question is also intereting: Had Dickmann--or any plebe for that matter--died earlier in the year, would he/she have been so honored? [I guess, in this case, the question really concerns a female mid.]

[/quote]
</p>

<p>there have been others that have died during the academic year- not sure during plebe year.</p>

<p>the interesting thing to me is that this is the first time I have heard of a specific mid-cover being selected to be placed on top of herndon- seems like in previous years there were dozens of "covers available" to be placed on top- most of the photos I have from 2010 at least show them all to be "round"...</p>

<p>so is this a one-time thing, or will it give rise to the "selection" of a cover going forward? Male or female? Does it matter? Guess we will all have to stay-tuned to see.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Last question: Do women not pet sweaty stuff? Is that why women find the comment demeaning but men do not?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>not if they can help it.</p>

53

<p>"I seriously want to say "just pet the sweaty stuff" but I am sure that would be disrespecting women somehow."</p>

<p>How in the world could anyone construe this as demeaning to women?? </p>

<p>OK. Some people on this board are just wound too tight, and it has nothing to do with gender.</p>

<p>When people label something as "demeaning" when it is not, it cheapens ACTUALLY demeaning words and actions.</p>

<p>Personally, I do not mind reading navy2010's perspective on things, knowing that it is based on her personal experiences. Much of what she says is valuable. However, it bothers me when she (and others) make sweeping statements and judgements that purportedly represent me.</p>

<p>navy2010, you do not speak for all women, as you do not speak for me. I suspect it is not intentional, but at times you write as if your perspective is the way it is, and your words at time ridicule or belittle differing perspectives in a subtle way. I believe this is why people take offense at your posts from time to time. So for all your talk about tolerance, yes, I believe you do still have work to do. </p>

<p>Not that the rest of us don't, too...</p>

54

<p>


</p>

<p>Check the urban dictionary.</p>

55

<p>I understand what it means, I do not see how it is demeaning to women. Are women supposed to be demeaned by any mention of sex, no matter how vague? Are we supposed to be offended that sex exists, that people enjoy it, that most people who willingly engage in it find it relaxing? Does denying that reality make us "pure"?</p>

<p>I am demeaned when people equate my value with my sexuality. I am demeaned when people make inappropriate comments about my body or intimate matters that don't concern them. I am demeaned when people spread the perspective that women are only good for one thing. I am demeaned when I am treated disrespectfully because some people don't think women are worthy of respect. </p>

<p>As much as some people want to deny it, we are sexual beings. Suggesting that women are demeaned by the most passing mention of sex deflects attention from genuinely damaging words and behaviors. The slang phrase in question isn't even gender specific.</p>

56

<p>I guess it is all how one perceives what is being said. Since the speaker cannot control that, they must consider how those words can be received, and adjust accordingly. With all due respect- obviously the Mid that posted the comment knew, based on the qualifying remark that was added, that the comment could be interperted in a derogatory way... which leads me to believe it was intended as such.</p>

<p>Personally, it takes a lot to turn my NY head, and I am far from being wound too tight. However, the litmus test for me is simple: if this came out of my son's mouth, let alone my MIDS mouth, how would I feel? Trust me- the outcome would not be pretty. </p>

<p>I have followed jamtex on many of his posts, and how lucky we are to have him post here to give us a different point of view- one we might not otherwise get to see. However, on THIS post, he stepped over the line of decorum..... and I would venture to say he knows that.</p>

<p>There is a time and place for everything. But this is not the forum for such comments. If I want to hear suggestive content I can seek it out all on my own- I do not, however, expect to have it expressed in a public forum, directed clearly to THIS mom, from someone who represents himself on this site as a voice of a midshipman- upperclassman no less. </p>

<p>He made his point clearly up to that comment- the rest was "secondary, optional and conditional," and IMO, "disrespectful, derogatory and demeaning." </p>

<p>MY opinion. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I believe this is why people take offense at your posts from time to time.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>actually, not that many. A few certainly. And sometimes I read over what it is I have posted and say to myself "what the heck were you thinking!!!!!" things certainly do look different the morning after. Surprisingly enough, more than one, and more than once, I have been called a "voice of reason" on here. I guess it's all a matter of how one looks at things.</p>

<p>anyway, your criticisms are well taken and I will work on the rest. Forgive me if i misstep now and again. I take comfort in something Thoreau once wrote:</p>

<p>"The true finish is the work of time, and the use to which a thing is put. The elements are still polishing the pyramids."</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am demeaned when I am treated disrespectfully because some people don't think women are worthy of respect.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>my sentiments exactly.</p>

57

<p>content analysis = That form of research methodology that erroneously equates the most words with the most truth. My old coach's bellowing still rings in my ears ... "There ain't no 'I' in TEAM!":eek:</p>

<p>Well, today is a GREAT DAY in the history of the United States Naval Academy! And in the lives of the GREAT YOUNG MEN and WOMEN about to be commissioned as USN ensigns and USMC 2nd lieutenants and sent forth in the service of our GREAT NATION! </p>

<p>Ladies and Gentlemen ... WE APPLAUD and CELEBRATE YOU! And in advance of those grand and exciting adventures on which you are about to embark, we THANK YOU! We thank you for your commitment to nurture and preserve our precious freedom, a commodity so hoped for and so rarely realized by every human being that has ever walked the face of this earth. Truly, we are so blessed to have this most extraordinary gift. And just as truly, you are among the best, brightest and most lovely of His creations to have embraced this highest of callings. </p>

<p>*May God guide and protect you in all of your days, and may you pursue lives of diligent faithfulness to your country and your Creator. * </p>

<p>And make sure to thank your Mom's & Dad's, friends and family; teachers, coaches, profs, mentors, scout leaders, spiritual leaders, and all those who've helped and supported you enroute to this wonderful day of celebration. Your journey has not been nor will be travelled alone.</p>

<p>May your efforts always honor that God who created and called you just for this time and place, as you begin the next step of your life's adventure. :cool:</p>

58

<p>Things they are a changin!!!!</p>

<p>Congratulation to 20th Company- Color Company!!!</p>

<p>And for the first time, the "color girl" is a** "color gent!!!"**</p>

<p>The CO this spring of 20th Company selected HER DAD as the first "color gentleman" in the history of the USNA! </p>

<p>Reports have it that the flowing white dress and hat traditionally worn by the "color girl" were traded in for a neat dark suit.
The pearls, given to the color girl, were instead given to the CO, with a watch more beffiting his attire was presented to her dad!</p>

<p>ps.... "color dad" is a retired naval commander!!!! :)</p>

<p>pps.... apparently no shoes left behind on Wardren!!!</p>

<p>Congrats to 20th Company.... and fair winds and following seas to the CLASS OF 2008!!!!!! God Speed!!</p>

59

<p>Or, as I used to hear it: There is no "I" in Team but there sure as heck is one in Winner!</p>

60

<p>^^^^ you are too good Bill!!!!</p>

<p>Congrats to your new FIRSTIE!!!!!!!!!!!
Class of 2008 is now history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>