<p>We also applied early to the three schools that had early scholarship deadlines, but waited on the others that didn’t have early deadlines or didn’t offer merit scholarships because between the application fee, sending test scores, and sending the CSS Profile it is a lot of money. It comes down to doing a ton of research and what works best for your family and its financial situation. I can understand that ED doesn’t work for a lot of people, but it can work for some.</p>
<p>*I just want to say thanks to kat, cpt, sybbie and others for their posts on this thread - I have learned a great deal from it. Very glad that my D13 elected not to apply ED. *</p>
<p>This was posted earlier but I wanted to say this also. You all have been incredibly helpful.</p>
<p>I totally agree with Kat and Cpt about one of the biggest drawbacks to applying ED is that you lose the opportunity to compare packages which can cost you money. </p>
<p>I can only talk to how it played out in our house…
During my D’s admissions cycle, my D applied to and was accepted at 7 -100% meets demonstrated need school and we received 7 different EFCs. </p>
<p>Amherst, Dartmouth, Williams, Barnard, Tufts, Bryn Mawr and Mount Holyoke (visited every school at least once before applying, went to Williams 3 times).
Dartmouth, Williams & Amherst are direct competitors all with similar endowments, however, there was still a good range in the FA packages of the 3 schools</p>
<p>In the end, Dartmouth was her first choice. This came after spending most of the school year saying that Williams will be her first choice. </p>
<p>However, Williams gave a better FA package (we used the Williams offer as the basis of a financial review to get a better offer from Dartmouth). However, the Williams package was not the overall best package; we were just looking at between 2 comparable schools). The overall “best packages came from Tufts (a school that many said did not give good aid and Bryn Mawr, which also had a 4 year leadership scholarship attached)</p>
<p>Had my D applied ED to Dartmouth and received the exact package that she received RD, she would have graduated with a minimum of 20k in loans as she would have received loans in her FA package each of the 4 years.</p>
<p>**Between Williams and Dartmouth, Williams gave **</p>
<p>More grant money
No loans in their package, even though they were not a "no loan school at the time
Less of a student contribution
Less work study and the parent contribution amount was less than the Dartmouth package. We were able to ask for a financial review where Dartmouth ended up meeting the Williams package.</p>
<p>Difference between Williams and Amherst
Parent contribution $2,251 higher at Amherst
Student contribution 975 higher at Amherst
Grant money $4,906 lower at Amherst
Loans $3,500 higher at Amherst
Work-study 100 higher at Amherst</p>
<p>Overall there was an $11,732 difference in the 2 FA packages which would have been at minimum $46,928 over the course of 4 years. Keep in mind that your student contribution and self help aid does increase year over year. </p>
<p>There was a total of $12,256 between the Barnard package and the final offer we got from Dartmouth (we used the Williams offer for a financial review from Dartmouth (Dartmouth met the Williams package).</p>
<p>Though out her 4 years at Dartmouth, our income and her financial aid remained pretty consistent. She graduated with ~ 3k in loans (which she took out Jr. Year when she studied abroad in Europe). The loan was repaid as a graduation gift, so she left undergrad debt free which was good since she then went off to law school.</p>
<p>First, let me confess that I should have been reading much more on this thread.</p>
<p>DS applied in early August to our state flagship (engineering) but then decided to explore some career/aptitude counseling and shift his focus to geoscience. Many visits followed. Fell in love with a high reach private LAC, applied ED, rejected. Meanwhile applied to some other matches, including both OOS publics with solid geoscience programs, and smaller private LACs with somewhat more limited programs - no visits to these except for one high-ish match (DS GPA is low-midrange, but ACT score place him in the top 25%) in December, applied EDII (decision to come by Feb. 15). Meanwhile acceptances, scholarships, etc from some of the early action applications including some affordable public OOS schools. None are singularly compelling, although very good; that’s not what this is about. </p>
<p>Now I see, from this thread and others, the risk of ED. Our financial situation is straightforward (W2 wages, and the only assets are college funds) but that’s no guarantee the net price calculator will be accurate, as I assumed.</p>
<p>Worse (yes, there is a worse): we assumed that while we could decline the ED admission if the gap was much larger than expected, the admission would go forward in the RD pool with the same offer. I don’t know where I got that. It doesn’t even make sense; I see now that this is not the case.</p>
<p>DS loves the school; I have some financial flexibility but it’s not unlimited. </p>
<p>I think I was foolish in the aftermath of the first rejection heartbreak, and wanted whatever admission edge an ED might give him. I was willing to pay more, whatever I could afford, if the NPC was off some, but didn’t factor in that it might be off a lot. </p>
<p>I’m prepared to hear in detail where I erred. Be gentle.</p>
<p>Would it be better - or even possible - to request the EDII application be changed back to RD, since the decision has not yet been made? Is this a terrible idea?</p>
<p>We’re going to be doing this again next fall. My D. a High School jr. top 4 choices are Princeton, Penn, Williams and Swartmore. She is #1of 450 will be a NMF(PSAT 223) She took SAT in Oct and got 2190(one sitting). We expect she’ll improve that score.We have to decide what school we apply ED etc etc. Alot of thought went into which school to use our ED choice on for my son.If we get another ED acceptance we’ll be very happy, but we’re not counting on it. We’ll probably be comparing RD pkgs in Spring of 2014</p>
<p>The other thing about ED that leaves me and some others questioning its use is not financial but rather longterm and iffy. Iffy in the sense that I have no numbers to back it up just some thought processes (strategies) has far as med school possibilities go.</p>
<p>Probably more discussed on the pre-med forum and SDN at length than on the financial aid forum but it does come up.</p>
<p>So lets say the student is on the bubble for even getting in RD so applies ED. And they do receive the so-called bump to get in because they are iffy for the RD round. Their numbers and ECs are there but not top notch. So maybe they are not the top of the pool but the school has them and they will pay more.</p>
<p>Four years pass and their grades are good, even great but enough for medical school where the numbers of admittance are frightening for even the BEST students?</p>
<p>What disadvantage is that pre-med student at where they are on the cusp rather than admitted to a school where they walk away with the 4.0 cum GPA and a 3.94 science gpa and 2 papers published and a decent MCAT with a ton of ECs. Contrast this to the ED student needing the bump and getting it with a 3.5 cum GPA and a 3.4 science GPA and the same MCAT but lacking in the ECs because of all other crazy competition. The numbers are there in the MSAR with exacting specifics of who gets in and who doesn’t.</p>
<p>Again this is not proven but seen over on the pre-med forum again and again and over on SDN (student doctor network). There is a whole sticky on the forum about which schools to pick and why.</p>
<p>Then the money comes into play all over again since most financial aid for med school is all loans and with some COA at some med schools pushing $85,000 per YEAR or more any carry over (loans, indebtedness) from undergrad adds to the nightmare.</p>
<p>Again this isn’t the direct financial aspect of ED that normaly comes up for discussion but for those of us facing long term ramifications when the fianancial aid forms still need to be filled out by parents.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, you can ask that the application be moved from the ED to the RD pool</p>
<p>Does the school in question meet 100% demonstrated need?
Did you run your numbers through the net price calcutor?
IF yes, are they numbers that you can live with?
Is there an appreciable difference between this school and the schools where he has been accepted with money?
Would your son be happy at one of the schools that he has been accepted to with $ if the money for this school did not work out?
Is there med or law school in your future (as professional schools will still ask for your financials for those that grant institutional aid)?</p>
<p>Scholarships</p>
<p>With all merit offers read parents and students must do their due diligence and ask about the fine print when it comes to keeping the merit $$</p>
<p>Is it automatically renewable for the next 4 years?</p>
<p>Is it attached to staying with a specific major?</p>
<p>Is it renewable for the same amount of money each year?</p>
<p>Is scholarship adjusted to take into consideration tuition increases (about 5% per year)</p>
<p>Is there a gpa requirement needed to keep getting the money?</p>
<p>When does the gpa requirement start (by the end of fall term or the end of spring term)?</p>
<p>Is there a phase in to the gpa requirement?</p>
<p>What happens if you do not meet gpa requirement, does money leave immediately or is there a grace period?</p>
<p>If you lose scholarship and bring your grades back up is money reinstated?</p>
<p>What percentage of students lose their scholarship?</p>
<p>Ask the financial aid office what percent of students lose their merit money in the first year.</p>
<p>And the most important question… worse case scenario if you were to lose the scholarship would you still be able to swing the cost of attending?</p>
<p>You are fine, in that you have plenty of EA and rolling school with which to compare your financial aid offers and don’t have like schools on the burner as possibilities. Where you can err is when you let your emotions stretch the financial boundaries without knowing what other options are. You can be in the same situation in the spring with a first choice school replacing the words “ED school”. You already have a good idea of what some of the affordable choices are and you don’t have like school that could up with better offers. Yes, it will be difficult if the aid package is not what you expected and you would have to make the choice as to whether to pay the extra and let Son go to FIrst CHoice U or let him know that it’s unaffordable and that you know what like packages will be and he can choose among them. </p>
<p>When you are looking a schools like Penn, Princeton WIlliams and Swarthmore, you have to let the others go for the early bird in the hand with absolutely no idea as whether the offer is going ot be better from the others. As Sybbie was saying, she got a lot of negoitating power by haivng a bunch of like schools in the mix, as they sometimes will meet like schools’ packages. A difference of $10K a year is more than a $40K spread over 4 years. If you can afford to let the possibility of that kind of money go so that your kid gets into FIrst Choice U, then fine. The danger is when a family just can’t let it go and ends up paying more than they can afford, unnecessarily. It’s bad enough when anyone pays that much unnecessarily but for some families, it can really have made a difference in quality of life.</p>
<p>Just adding our experience to the mix: We are pretty low on the income scale AND run a small family business, and we had a GREAT experience with ED. My son got into his first choice school and got a great Financial Aid package. Glad I didn’t read this thread first!</p>
<p>geeps wrote “not sure why owning a business should cloud things so much. The NPCs I’ve looked at ask for business income and the value of the business. It really isn’t that complicated, all info on tax returns.”.</p>
<p>Answer: It’s likely because of the perceived value of the business. Example: Our family-owned business has very few assets but throws off much net $ yearly. So, we’d value the business itself at a very small # (as biz we do isn’t guaranteed and again, our business doesn’t have many assets…ie, similar to a web-based business and drop shipping from another company after getting the order). However, colleges might say that our business was worth 5X net income, effectively denying us financial aid because of the high business value they perceive.</p>
<p>ED is a trap, in my opinion. I am very glad I only did EAs.</p>
<p>sybbie719: all good questions. Have a call in to the FA office, and hope to learn more on Tuesday. This is DS’ top choice, but he’s got two acceptances from schools which will cost $10k or so less even with OOS, but are much larger public universities, though still in his preferred region and with even better programs for his major - just not a private LAC.</p>
<p>I applied ED and my deadline for the deposit was the 15th, I had not gotten fin aid yet so no deposit for them.</p>
<p>I read somewhere that you really don’t have a deadline if admitted early decision. It’s not like your actually starting college earlier then those chosen RD. Your spot is secure if you wait to decide by May 1st. Can anyone confirm?</p>
<p>^ No, They offer you Fin. aid pkkg. @ or near time of decision. You accept or decline.Then you committ or withdraw.</p>
<p>Looking back, I WAS AN IDIOT RETRACTING ALL OF MY OTHER APPS when I didn’t have my Financial Aid Package yet. Thankfully, I received 40K from GWU (5K in Stafford loans) and will easily be able to pay for 4 years undergrad.</p>
<p>To rebel11:</p>
<p>“How is it that you “know” you wouldn’t have gotten a better deal ED??”</p>
<p>As others explained here, no one ver “knows” for sure. However, my family and I do believe in Economics and in Statistics.</p>
<p>When are consumers more likely to get a good deal? When they are facing a market composed of monopolist supplieres (ED) or many competing suppliers(RD)? When there is only one offer (ED) or multiple offers (RD)?</p>
<p>Look, I understand that you believe your strategy worked well for you and your family. But as others and I reported going for ED may represent a difference of $10K per year. By the same token, I believe my strategy of applying RD to multiple schools worked greatly for my family. I did get into quite a few very selective schools (some more selective than Penn BTW). </p>
<p>Some times I think that ED is another benefit to the wealthy… But then some other times I think that if there are people out there willing to pay more, and consequently this helps to subsidise other people’s finaid package, so be it. </p>
<p>I do not even know why I keep posting these warnings about ED. I guess it is more because I believe that finaid is not trully “aid”, it is instead “price discrimination”, and I feel like being helpful to some consumers (i.e. students) out there.</p>
<p>Reading this thread reminds me of the complete impossibility to draw generic conclusions from individual cases. </p>
<p>Regardless of where one stands in his or her position on ED, let me point out the incredible fallacy in most arguments. While the outcomes are estimated in FOUR times the original package, there are no guarantees that this will happen. None! So much for the virtue of comparing packages in April. The reality is that all aid is subject to ANNUAL revisions and ANNUAL changes in policies. Merit aid? Subject to performance and other criteria. </p>
<p>Here is my conclusion that is partially based on extensive scholarly research in this precise subject. While it is true that ED offers substantial advantages to the clear full paying students, there are very compelling reasons for others to participate, especially for minorities and clear low to zero EFC. For the latter group, ED might very well be the best opportunity available. </p>
<p>As it is ALWAYS the case, the application process belies black on white conclusive statements. The process is defined by individual cases and timeliness. Financial matters do vary among siblings in the same family, and it surely transcends the differences between an early or regular financial read.</p>
<p>
LOVED this - thank you!!!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Care to elaborate?</p>
<p>To Inpersonal, You seem to believe Ed is bad, Many others believe your wrong. You use horror stories of unprepared people to bolster your case.I’m curious about “some more selective than Penn BTW”. Why don’t you just name them so others can determine for themselves the value of your comments??Nothing any of you naysayers posted makes me believe that Ed isn’t great for people of all income levels who do the homework required. You don’t want to believe ED gives you your best chance of admittance,I believe the facts show you are wrong.Your belief in economics and stats should also tell you that the ED bump has a value also? That is unless you’re going to deny that it exists??</p>