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What ABOUT the orphans?? People get bereavement fares (which are usually no bargain price, BTW) not just because a parent dies. It can be for any family member. So, umm, I guess your example… umm… lemme think of the word… oh yeah… ** SUCKS**</p>
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<p>Hmmmmmmm. </p>
<p>Ok- here is how it really works. Your EFC is computed. That doesnt mean you have the money. That doesnt mean you have “sufficient income” to afford it. And it also didnt mean that you had piles of cash clogging the hallway and its just fortune that these jacked up tuition are coming along so you can clear some of the stuff out. The point is that the colleges are soaking the upper income people with inflated rates and using that to subsidize other students discounts. Then the college issues press releases crowing about how much they are “giving away” in financial aid. </p>
<p>It would be a much more equitable system if the college set an fair market price for their tuition and then used their endowment money to provide scholarships. Thats just moving money from one pocket to another for them. And if they had to fore go another building vanity project or a layer of administrators so be it. </p>
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<p>Holy ****! Another bad analogy!</p>
<p>It has to be <em>the</em> <em>same</em> <em>thing</em>. </p>
<p>“Hey I got charged more for a banana than the other guy did for an orange. Guess that proves something.” </p>
<p>When constructing your bogus analogies you need to come up with a product of service where two people get the exact same thing but one group gets charged more on the basis of their skin color. Or they dont get some benefit because of their skin color. </p>
<p>Thats the point of comparison.</p>
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Why can’t poor kids have time to study/retake the tests? Kids who aren’t poor have jobs or other time commitments. And isnt there a SAT fee waivor for kids who can document inability to afford the test? So cant attribute it to the cost of the tests either. I’d think a motivated poor kid would/should make the time to study and retake, especially for the potential payoff it may bring to them.</p>
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oh for the love of pete. Don’t make this a race issue. This discussion was about college costs for the poor/not-so-poor. Not all poor people are of one skintone. Your comparison… what was it again?? I keep forgetting that word, as you haven’t used it enough. Oh yeah… ** SUCKS**</p>
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<p>I think you’re a little confused as to what HYPSM et al are doing when they pick their class. They are not “promising” to pick (what you consider) the most qualified. They are picking a class that suits their institutional needs. If you want to be part of that class, feel free to apply. If not, there are plenty of places that accept based on purely quantitative measures such as SAT scores. I think you think that HYPSM “owe” top students (as you define them) a place in the class. They don’t.</p>
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<p>Why would poor kids have less time than wealthier ones?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl:</p>
<p>The tuition inflation issue affects most private schools not just HYPS.</p>
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<p>You feel that if there cant be a perfect system (or more accurately a quibble proof system) that we might as well throw up our hands and have an overtly discriminatory system. That not logically. </p>
<p>Yes you can come up with metrics that accurately rank academic and intellectual achievement. And skin color and ethnic subgroup (in the case of the HYPs past discrimination against Jews) aren’t such metrics. </p>
<p>Lets lurch back to reality here. As Bel pointed out a dozen pages back Gonzales was below the 25% range for Emory. That was not the appropriate school for her. She herself says that she wasnt prepared for it (" I was ready for Galveston College I wasnt ready for Emory""). And yet the mopey Times writer worries about the perils of ‘under-matching’ ("Bianca was under-matched. She was living at home, dating her high-school boyfriend and taking classes at Galveston College. ")</p>
<p>Do we really think that people did a favor for Angelica Gonzales? Because she has wasted four years and $60K and I dont see Jason DeParle chipping in or even looking at the right problem. The girl would be screwed with out the support of Fred who DeParle dismisses as “binding her to the past”. </p>
<p>We need to fret about pushing more kids into colleges they aren’t prepared for! Thats the ticket.</p>
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<p>They are more likely to be working after school or on weekends to help support their families.</p>
<p>Also, they are more likely to be first generation college hopefuls, so their parents may not be as familiar with standardized tests and their coachability. The latter is likely more of an issue if attending a high school where few aspire to more selective colleges, since peer effects may compensate if attending a high school with a lot of students aspiring to more selective colleges (e.g. when hanging out with other students discussing the SAT and preparing for it).</p>
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<p>Hmmm, do you mean to say that students should be wary of attending reach schools if they get admitted to them?</p>
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Thats ridiculous. Lots of students, rich and poor have jobs, as well as after school committments, teams, volunteer work, etc. No group can corner the market on more or less time.</p>
<p>Argbargy, I thought this thread was about financial need and not race. </p>
<p>Sorry you don’t like my analogies. I find your lack of imagination in vocabulary equally frustrating. lol</p>
<p>Here’s another one … lol </p>
<p>You go to get your hair cut. It’s Tuesday afternoon. You pay $18. The person in the next chair paid only $9. It’s not fair and you can’t suddenly make yourself a few years older to qualify for the senior discount. But I guess that won’t work because I haven’t mentioned the race of the customers, although we might be able to guess at one.</p>
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I don’t buy that either. Most any kid planning to apply to college and take the SAT or ACT is going to go on line, especially if they register to take the SAT, and a few keystrokes will lead them to a ton of info about the SAT, studying for the SAT, andd, why yes, even this bulletin board!! Even if the parents arent aware of studyimg/prepping for the SAT, the students likely are.</p>
<p>I don’t buy that kids from lower income families have less time than other kids.</p>
<p>Hey-- heres a shocker. Go to the CollegeBoard/SAT website and they prominently hawk, err I mean display their study guide info for the test. <a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board; Quelle surprise.</p>
<p>"Thats ridiculous. Lots of students, rich and poor have jobs, as well as after school committments, teams, volunteer work, etc. No group can corner the market of more or less time. "</p>
<p>Before we heard that low income students couldnt have as many EC’s and that was unfair. If they have fewer EC’s they have more time. </p>
<p>"Hmmm, do you mean to say that students should be wary of attending reach schools if they get admitted to them? "</p>
<p>Yes- that would be good advice for any kid regardless of SES or family background. Unless you view the university name on your diploma as strictly status signaling (not that it isnt to various degrees) to need to recognize that each college is aiming target level of rigor, and there is a feedback loop between the rigor and the capabilities of the student body. There is going to be a level of work you will need to put out at Davidson or MIT that you wouldnt a Directional U. And if you are markedly below the level that the courses are being taught at you are going to struggle to keep up, let alone succeed. </p>
<p>In the case of Angelica Gonzales there was no effort to match her to a school. She applied to Northwestern, which was too reachy too, and Emory. And she wasnt ready for either. </p>
<p>This is what I mean when I complain about society setting up college as an end unto itself. The Uplifters, as Mencken would call them, screwed this kid over with their advice.</p>
<p>Proudpatriot, I’d recommend the movie Stand and Deliver to help give you some insight into what obstacles some may experience.</p>
<p>Argbargy, someone has to be in the lower 25% … or should that just be reserved for some athletes and some legacies?</p>
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<p>That presumes that the poor family has a computer and internet connection. If not, they would have to go to a library to browse the web, which is not open all the time and is not as convenient as having a computer with internet connection at home.</p>
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<p>Sorry, jym, but it’s just different. Rich kids don’t HAVE to have jobs to help support their families. They usually don’t have to take care of younger siblings while their parents are at work. Being on a sports team or doing other extracurricular activities is a luxury–and one that in turn helps them look well-rounded on their college applications. Many poor kids don’t have that option.</p>
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