<p>Look-you can’t have it both ways. You can’t state that having some huge bureaucracy in place has no affect on tuition costs for all students and then whine that merit aid decreases available financial aid for the poor. If money is fungible then it is fungible for everyone.</p>
<p>I will never be happy to be ripped off no matter how much money I make.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The purpose of college tuition is to impoverish the rich?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, I do not. Need-based financial aid penalizes saving and working. Merit aid based on academic achievement encourages academic achievement. In the U.S. a kid from an affluent family costs his parents more for college if he is an excellent student and gets into the most selective colleges. I don’t think most countries penalize the best students in this way. Do they?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Most other industrialized and semi-industrialized countries don’t charge the exorbitant tuition rates our nation does. Some even were/are tuition free as the US once did with some public colleges like CUNY until 1975. </p>
<p>On the other hand, the “trade off” is that admissions is much more grueling* and selective. The mere idea that someone who lacks basic math(including calculus) or writing skills(writing coherent essays without obvious spelling/grammatical mistakes) would be allowed to attend college would be considered an inconceivable absurdity in those societies. </p>
<p>Not only would they fail the college application process, some wouldn’t have even been allowed to go on to academic high schools necessary to be eligible to even start the application process. </p>
<p>Other countries like some French colleges are nominal cost by our standards and allow lax admissions, but have weed-out exams at the end of each academic year which eliminates 50%+ of the students from continuing on to the next year. A practice which once existed for in-staters at some Midwest public college in the '50s and early '60s according to several older folks who attended in that period. </p>
<ul>
<li>So grueling and competitive to the point many well-off families from such countries send their children here to the US because they feel it’s too competitive or their kids didn’t make the cut under those systems.</li>
</ul>
<p>
</p>
<p>What? How are the better students penalized?</p>
<p>PP, read the Delta link.
And, it’s time someone named colleges with huge bureaucracies today, so we can all explore which are robbbing us.</p>
<p>I also have to point out that, sometimes, “ripped off is a state of mind.” </p>
<p>Is the purpose of college to impoverish the rich? I think not. Nor is car ownership. You can choose the Lexus or the used Ford. I think the purpose of college is to educate our young ‘uns, expose them to a range of growth activities, intellectual and otherwise. Very satisfied with my kids’ academic and personal evolution at their high cost instiitutions. At the same time, very satisfied with my old car. Not wealthy, in financial terms.</p>
<p>Yes, but you listed “Rich stay richer” as a counter productive outcome. </p>
<p>A lot of times “rich”, or as in the case of the SES study, “affluent” just means in the upper quartile- which frankly is not rich. </p>
<p>I would prefer to to see tuition, or admittance, not used as a social engineering tool. Stick to educating the young 'uns.</p>
<p>I stated: if you charge 33% - 20% - 13%,
that huge discrepancy- why penalize the low income family with a higher percentage rate??? This was Bel’s proposal, I think- and it’s unfair at the low end. Forces the poor to come up with a higher proportion of income and leaves less for fundamentals. </p>
<p>I wonder if you’d be happy if the low SES were also charged 13%. Yummy. So, at 30k, they’d pay roughly $7800. Of course, the rich still have tons-o-leftover and the lower SES are still left scrambling.</p>
<p>You just arem’t gong to get college costs down to the next-to-nothing Calif charges in the pre-Reagan era. Life’s not like that anymore. You can read the UC’s own explanation of what happened that costs rose.</p>
<p>It IS a social engineering tool if we say, foo on you for not being more affluent.</p>
<p>I wasn’t fond of the proposal. I thought it introduced more problems than it solved.</p>
<p>I don’t know what the Delta link is. Perhaps it is some link that I already read.</p>
<p>
What about the international applicants who have need? Are the US schools expected to provide it to international students?</p>
<p>And as for this
For the umpteenth time, the funds earmarked in special foundations or endowed scholarships designated by the donors for merit students regardless of need, these monies do not impact the funds available for need-based aid. They are separate funding sources. So if you donate to a fund earmarked to upgrade the dorms, but they need the money for need-based aid, they should be permitted to take the money you have donated specifically for one purpose and instead use it for another purpose?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No because there’s a good public policy interest case in prioritizing the needs of US students over internationals in that context. </p>
<p>Moreover, it was a moot point when I was in college as while a few colleges like mine did provide need-based aid for internationals, they were also held to much higher academic standards than US students…including full-pays. </p>
<p>Thus, they were actually more academically meritorious than US students of that period. Granted, I heard that changed in the last few years…though I believe the lowered admission standards are mainly applied to those are indicating they’d be full-pay students.</p>
<p>Regardless of what happened in your one school when you were there, lets talk about now. General thought- should the US schools be expected to meet need for internationals? Yes or no? Why or why not?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Seems like US schools view international students as cash cows.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Son’s school has a ton of merit-scholarships. Some are based on location, major, race, high-school, academics, etc. Private individuals created these scholarships so they should be able to say who they go to.</p>
<p>Who am I to complain about another person’s charity?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Undergrad? No. They have no obligation to benefit the school or country when they are finished.</p>
<p>Graduate? Yes. If they do the usual TA/RA work. This happens a lot at research universities now.</p>
<p>
Exactly. But cobrat seems to think that merit monies should be redirected to students of need. It simply doesnt work that way.</p>
<p>And how many “I am international but I need FA” threads/posts have permeated cc? Certainly not every international is a “cash cow”. There are probably as many full pay domestic students as there are internationals. Plenty of US cash cows here.</p>
<p>I’m curious why international students think that they are entitled to US FA. Shouldn’t their own countries provide FA for them to go to local or international schools? I do know lots of adults (foreign nationals) that went to school in the US and paid their own way (via wealthy parents). I don’t think that they even thought about expecting any kind of aid.</p>
<p>Fair question, BCEagle. But schools do see the value in diversity and international students in their student body, and do offer aid. Don’tknow if these funds come from teh same pool that is used to fund need-based aid for US citizens
[10</a> Colleges That Offer International Students Most Financial Aid: Nearly 800 U.S. colleges report they awarded money to international students in 2010; these gave the most. - chicagotribune.com](<a href=“http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-201202221120usnewsusnwr201202210221intlneedfeb22,0,225309.story]10”>http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-201202221120usnewsusnwr201202210221intlneedfeb22,0,225309.story)</p>
<p>PP, apologies, I linked it on another thread. [The</a> Delta Cost Project on Postsecondary Education Costs, Productivity, and Accountability](<a href=“http://www.deltacostproject.org/]The”>http://www.deltacostproject.org/) On the right, College Spending in a Turbulent Decade and Spending: Where Does the Money Go?</p>
<p>There are countries that fund their kids to attend US colleges, unique programs for their top kids- suspect cobrat can explain.</p>
<p>Interesting reading.</p>