Thanks for all the responses. It has been really helpful.
@JessicaO - I hear you. Understood and appreciated.
@TooOld4School - Thanks for the note about Northwestern and Duke programs. I didn’t know they existed.
@TheGFG - Hi neighboor Thanks for the Public School-Private School comparison. We will check out Kumon for sure.
@mamom - We live in a town with a good education system already. Thanks for your advice.
@TheGreyKing - Thanks for the great post. I truly appreciate it. I think it is going to depend on our kids how much we will be involved in their education journey. Time will tell.
@happymomof1 - Thanks very much. Very solid advice. We are doing the best we can do towards financial aspect of college.
@NorthernMom61 - We started saving for our boys’ college for a long time now. I believe we have a good plan but we will read more about this to educate ourselves.
@twicearound - Very good point about supporting our kids regardless of their choice. We try our best.
@OspreyCV22 - We are saving already. To answer your other question, I will say biggest reason I found this forum was the fact that both me and my wife are not familiar with American Education system and I never paid attention to college. Our idea was to wait until High School to learn what we had to do as parents to help them succeed. I will also answer you while responding to LindaGaf
@typiCAmom - Thanks. It really is different in Eastern Europe and I would say it is much much simpler once you are on top of your grades and get good test scores. It is really pretty complex here in the USA and I feel like we have to learn as much as possible to be able to help out our kids down the road.
@TheGFG , that hasn’t been at all true for either of my kids. My dyslexic dysgraphic son was held out of advanced math, at our request, until 7th grade. He is totally fine as a 9th grader, doing Honors geometry now, and two other honors courses on the advanced track.
In 5th grade, the school decided my D (12th grade) shouldn’t be in advanced math. We had no idea until it was much too late (8th) that she could have been moved up at our request. Her grades in math were always near 100. Enter high school, she has always been in the top 5% of students in terms of taking the hardest level of courses. But because someone made a decison in 5th grade, she had to petition all through high school to be allowed to do H Chem, H physics, AP Stats, H Geometry, etc… Needless to say, she of course did well, and her only “blemish” on her college app is that she is in pre calc instead of calc. Luckily, she is not planning on majoring in STEM, so it isn’t an issue for her.
Neither kid has ever done a summer course to make up for something lacking in high school. My D did however attend a competitive summer computer science program for college credit, at a very prestigious liberal arts college. She taught herself to code and created a bunch of websites or soemthing. I am guessing the college was far more interested in that than the fact the she wasn’t in the advanced level math class in 5th grade.
I do agree that middle school is more important in some regards because kids can lay foundations for EC activities they want to take more seriously, and of course get tracked for higher level courses.
It is worth remembering that kids mature at different rates. If Jimmy isn’t put on the advanced math course by 4th grade, it is zero indication of his ability to do advanced math at a later date, like in a couple of years, or longer.
@Lindagaf - Your thread about “Average” excellent student was the first thread I read on this forum. I truly enjoyed reading it. Yes I meant Extra Curricular for good colleges. I know we are competitive but we are trying to stay out of our kids educational journey. We know in the end, it will be them determining how they will end up in life. We just don’t want our ignorance on American Education system to work against our kids. But I learned a lot since yesterday. I didn’t know what Weighted GPA was until I read your thread. Now I know. I now also know not to worry too much yet and save money. Thanks again for your post.
Arden, please do not be overly concerned if your kids are not in advanced math in 5th grade. That really isn’t going to matter until 6th or 7th grade. If your kids are extremely advanced in math, and you are in a good district, they will likely be in the double advanced math course. In our middle school, the four or five kids who did that actually attended the high school for their first period to do math, then were bussed back to the middle school for the rest of the day.
Not to get sidetracked by the advanced course stuff, it is too early to think about. Of course, it is good to be aware. I am more concerned that in your zeal to get them on the “elite college track” at such a young age, you could be preparing them for a big disappointment in 8 years time. By all means nurture their interests and academic abilities. Be sure it is what they are interested in, not what you are interested in. Be careful of the subconscious message you might end up giving them.
One thing you can explore and keep an eye on is the ability to send your children to college in Europe. I have a couple of friends that are planning on doing that. One is a Spanish citizen and her son will be going to school in France so in preparation he went to 1 year of high school there to shore up his French so that language wouldn’t be an issue. Another French friend’s daughter is planning to go to some school in Amsterdam. You might want to explore that to see if it seems desirable.
Our dream scenario if for our kids to attend the same college me and my wife attended back at home. To get in, they only need to ace their SAT’s and need good GPA’s. To be honest, that was our initial plan but our friends(who are also from same country as we are) told us it might not work out because our kids might want to stay in USA so we should learn the process as much as we can.
Why do your kids need Kumon? Are they lacking in a solid skill base? Why not let them play spring soccer or baseball, or go to summer camp, or take flute lessons, or cooking classes for kids…or whatever.
Let them be kids. Give them good options…but remember that they may not actually LIKE yoir choices. We had one kid who loved tennis lessons, and another who hated them. We had one kid who was into school sports, and another who was a strong musician. We didn’t try to show horn our kids into OUR vision for their future.
The college landscape will change A LOT between now and when your kids apply in 7 years or so. When the time comes…maybe 8th grade or so…make sure you look at a variety of colleges with varying levels of competitiveness for admissions. And that are affordable for your family esoecially with two in college at the same time, It sounds like your friends didn’t do this.
Do NOT ignore your instate public universities in NJ. There are plenty of successful adults who went to those, and not Princeton.
Start college savings now…a 529 perhaps, that can be used for your kids toward college. One thing we did NOT do, but should have done…we should have put all bonus pay money into accounts like these. I mean really…they were BONUSES…and we were living adequately in our salaries.
Things to remember…your kids might not want to be engineers. They might not be as competitive as you are. They might want to major in music because that is their passion.
One question. Are your kids U.S. citizens or green card holders? Or are they seeking this status?
Very good advice. We don’t push any Extra curriculars on them. They do whatever they want. One is in Karare, the other is learning ukele and plays soccer.
We are US citizens and our kids are also US citizens. They were born here. Me and my wife got our citizenship a while back.
Can’t emphasize the money part enough. 529’s are a great way to save, but you should be aware of their restrictions… If you are knowledgeable about investments, you can also look into tax free municipal ETF’s and bonds. The latter are under your control, but earnings on them are tax-free for federal income tax. With the 529’s you are stuck with the investments they have, and there are limits on the number of times you can move your money between investments. As long you know the rules and market risks, 529’s are fine. We have both - the 529’s were opened when the kids were very young. My recent investments earmarked for college are in municipal bond and dividend paying stocks in my brokerage account.
We are a professional couple in NJ and, for us, the main aim is to be able to afford a college that would be best suited for our kids. It has meant living slightly below our means, but that is a personal choice we made because we knew we would not qualify for any aid. My kids have different aptitudes and abilities, and being in a position to not worry about costs is a huge relief. OP mentioned that a friend’s child got into NYU, but with no scholarship - these are the sorts of things to be aware of. Scholarships are few and far between, and many people are confused by the difference between merit aid and need based aid etc.
You may want to get involved with the PTO in your school so that you can cultivate an understanding of how the parents in your district, who have been educated in the US, approach the process. That’s how I learned about all the nuances of high school tracking and college application in a competitive school district, since I grew up out west and went to ho-hum high school. Even for those who were educated in the US, the college admissions game seems to be a moving target. I have found many of the parents in my district to be extremely agile in adapting. The top kids in my son’s high school get impressive acceptances to many good schools each year (This year - Tufts, Dartmouth, U MIch, Penn, etc.). Wash U and Tulane are favorites here. Note - the school rarely sends kids to HYPMS, and folks here have long ago moved away from the Ivy obsession.
I don’t think that 4th grade is too early to start thinking about these things. I do think it’s too early to let your kids know you’re thinking about these things. Guide them with a very light touch.
For me, I had no clue about the current landscape of college admissions until the summer prior to D1’s junior year. By then it was too late to change course, and for what it’s worth, I doubt it would have changed anything. However, I might have encouraged her to apply for awards or programs about which I was oblivious previously (JHU CTY, Duke TIP, Scholastic literary and art awards). Not to check a box but because I think she would have enjoyed them.
Save all the money you can. Start a 529 plan or something similar.
Go to museums. To concerts. hiking. swimming. discover and explore with your kids
Public schools are often awesome and private schools are no guarantee of anything. For every parent dissatisfied with publics, there is someone dissatisfied with a private.
Save, save, save
Stop worrying. It's not a race, it's not a competition, it's not a judgement of your parenting or your childrens' value.
Let them be kids, let them be teens. Follow their lead of what they find interesting. Don’t get in the way. Listen.
Help them develop a love of learning. Do not make them do anything for the sole purpose of resume-building. Everything they do should be activities they want to do because they have a sincere interest in it. Ask yourself, would my kids be doing this activity if they lived in Europe and ECs were not part of a college application? If the answer is yes, then you know that it’s the right activity for them.
Well, yes, but it doesn’t hurt to be a little prepared especially if you didn’t grow up with our system.
One piece of advice I’d like to add, is that you don’t have to be in the best school system in your area. In fact all too often the schools with the highest test scores are pressure cookers with miserable kids. Test scores really don’t tell you everything. For elementary schools you want places that nurture the kids despite the pressure to perform on state assessments. I’d be looking for good art and music programs. My kids went to an arts and humanities magnet in elementary school. Even my STEM kid thrived with that program. When looking at high schools you want a high school with a critical mass of top achieving students, so that if that’s where your kids belong they’ll have a peer group. But my kids really appreciated having friends who came from different backgrounds as well.
Finally don’t fall into the trap that there is one way to get into college. The happiest and most successful kids are the ones who are allowed to explore what is interesting to them. My older boy went from learning all about trains, to all about electronics to all about chess, to all about computer programming. Younger son did a lot of music and also got interested in origami after a trip to Japan. When they got interested in things I provided books or classes. If they lost interest they moved on.
FWIW we gave our kids a solid and free public education and were able to pay for private colleges. But college costs a lot in the US and you can’t count on scholarships to pay the way.
Oh and please don’t look at Kumon. Unless your school is really failing you your kids should be fine without it.
If I could make a single recommendation, make reading a priority. Read books yourselves. Read the books your kids read. Go to the library regularly. Being an avid reader is the single best way to improve test scores, and it’s fun too!
Start saving now. Start thinking again in 8th grade when your kids are getting ready to enter high school, that is plenty of time. Get over the idea that your kids MUST go a top school – likely those schools will be more competitive, not less, and more expensive, not less by the time your kids are of age.
Also… can’t help but be the grammar police here:
“My wife and I” is what it should be. Maybe make sure your kids are getting very good English instruction in their schools, and encourage summer activities like creative writing camps or debate, etc. The best route to great reading/writing scores on college entrance exams is a love of reading and excellent grammar spoken at home. My kids did pretty much no prep in those areas and had great scores, because it was so ingrained in them every day. That particular error occurred several times in your initial post. Reading is actually the most important – hopefully they like to read now, and feed that desire as much as you can without making them resentful.
Awareness/knowledge good. Just beware of the fear mongering. A quick look through these forums will show you that the “formula” isn’t a sure thing. The admissions process is just more subjective and/or holistic than we comprehend. Getting into a particularly competitive school is an elusive goal of sorts, so you are better off not trying to manufacture the perfect student/applicant. Just nurture their passions, provide them with lots of opportunities, and enjoy them. It goes by fast and at the end of the day surely the measure of their/our success isn’t tied to college acceptances.
Oh, I was not recommending Kumon, but rather stating that when children are in such programs and are learning math above the level being taught in the school, then they will tend to outscore their peers on the placement tests that determine math tracking. Apparently, tracking starts in 2nd grade in our district now. Thus one child could be every bit as talented and bright as another, yet miss out on being tracked higher due to outside preparation. I just wanted the OP to be aware of this possibility.
Totally agree with @twicearound. From what I read, there is no real formula - resumes tell only half the story. Some well-rounded kids get in, with breadth over depth of EC’s, some the other way around. What really shows in their essays and recommendation is the personality - and you can’t fake that. So forget about grooming your kids to be “the best for college”, just guide them to be “the best for life”
@mathmom , I agree with your statement about pressure cooker schools. We moved to our county 12 years ago, when our kids were younger than OPs. Near us is a school district known for sending kids to top schools. We deliberately avoided that school district because of the number of suicides in the district. We instead live in a district nearby that sends many kids to many excellent colleges, including tippy top reach schools. Touch wood, I have never heard of a suicide in our district.
Part of the issue Arden is that you really have no idea what is in store for your kids once they enter high school. Especially as you are probably thinking about top colleges. I think most of the replies are from older parents. Trust me, you want your kids to be children as long as possible.
Thanks for the Public School-Private School comparison. We will check out Kumon for sure.