<p>Well, this has been bothering me for so long now, and I just have to get expert opinion on this. I am a Hispanic student from the #1 ranked high school in the state of Illinois, Northside College Prep High School. When I applied to Stanford I had a 3.6/ 4.6 GPA. I scored a 32 on the ACT. I was taking 5 AP classes, and had already taken 4 prior. I was born in Mexico, and had a very difficult upbringing. Some of which I mentioned in my essays, but tried to make them more about how much I wanted to contribute to Stanford. I applied as Bio/pre-med major and had taken the classes needed to show my interest. On top of that, I had been rowing for a couple of months, but was already getting looks by Stanford, Brown, Cornell, Harvard, Princeton, etc. I went on official visits to Brown, Cornell, and Stanford before I completely fell in love with it. My club coach was good friends with the Stanford coach, he coached him when he was at Cal. I decided to commit to Stanford. The Stanford coaches told me that they were supporting me, and that I was their number three recruit on their list; I was one of only four who got flown out. They told me they gave my name to the admissions people, and that although they did not give out likely letters to rowers, they thought I had a good chance of getting in. A month later, I was deferred. It broke my heart, and all of the confidence I had. I had already told other coaches that I committed to Stanford. What I want to know is why on Earth did I not get in? I am not assuming that I am better than anyone in any sort of way, but it seemed like, and a lot of people have told me, it seemed like I had everything going for me. I had even met personally with the admissions officer from my area, and she told me that she was rooting for me all the way. When I emailed her after I got deferred, she told me that I was a very memorable applicant because we had gone through very similar experiences in life. So what happened? Please help me understand! This is just to clear my heart of all disappointment before I head to Penn in the fall.</p>
<p>Were you ever asked to sign a National Letter of Intent? What exactly did the coach’s tell you? Is this an NCAA sport at Stanford? There are different kinds of commitments by coach’s for athletic recruits and I’m afraid you misunderstood what the coaches said or whether they explained this or not to you?</p>
<p>Stanford, MIT, etc. don’t offer athletic scholarships but instead, can get you in under the guise of judging you as a regular applicant. There seems to have been some disconnect between the political powers at Stanford and maybe they should have been more clear with you…maybe they did explain that nothing was binding and that you’d need to get admitted the regular route…with their advocacy to help out. </p>
<p>I think the process wasn’t properly explained to you or you didn’t understand it. Otherwise there would be many others who felt misled.</p>
<p>@Johnny H is partially correct. The Ivy league does not offer athletic scholarships but Stanford is a a Pac-12 school and does offer 300 athletic scholarships per year (as listed on their website) and men’s rowing is one of their official ncaa sports. There are scholarship athletes (they all sign a NLI while in high school and admission is pre-approved), invited walk-ons and walk-ons.</p>
<p>Men’s crew is not an NCAA sport, although it is a varsity sport at Stanford.</p>
<p>I did lots of research on NCAA sports so I understand that system fairly well but not sure I understand the non-NCAA sports so I don’t know what rules it follows. Stanford is one of the hardest schools in the country to get into. Stanford coaches can get their athletes admission for NCAA sports but they have to meet a fairly high standard. Many student athletes don’t meet Stanford’s requirements as student athletes. Usually, the coaches submit the student athletes information for evaluation and get them approved before flying them out for recruitment trips. I’m not sure how you went on a recruitment trip if you didn’t meet the Stanford standards for student athletes. What I do know is that its possible you were a second choice to someone else who accepted their offer but they may not have told you that. I’m sorry this happened to you. Clearly you have a great future ahead of you and I bet the U Penn coaches are happy to have you and will treat you with the respect you deserve.</p>
<p>D is a Stanford athlete, but what I know may not apply since these things can vary by sport and gender. That said, based on what the coach told us during her official visit, there may occasionally be a strong athlete they want to recruit who receives preliminary approval from the admissions office. The coach may even fly this student out for an official visit before s/he is admitted. These cases tend to play fall sports or be superstars, since from what I understand most of the other kids generally have to be admitted before being given an OV. Otherwise, they’d be wasting money. Anyway, despite preliminary approval by admissions based on transcript and test scores, some kids might get rejected once their whole application is submitted. Perhaps their recommendation letters are lacking, or their essays are poor. For some reason, though, admissions says no. It is not the coach’s fault, since Stanford is super careful about NCAA rules and proper conduct. My guess is either this happened, or you misunderstood what was being promised to you. </p>
<p>Sorry on my mistake, I meant varsity sports. Stanford definitely has endowed scholarships for its important sports, like football. No way nfl talent like Andrew luck and Richard Sherman went there without a free ride.</p>
<p>OP, I feel sorry that you had to go through what you have gone through. Stating the obvious though, I doubt anyone on here will know exactly what went wrong, people will only guess at what might, or might not have happened. Other posters on this board have warned that nothing is done till you hold that admissions letter in your hand, no matter how encouraging things might have been - this is what I keep trying to impress upon my S. It seems to me that you are one of the few who has experienced a situation that holds that advice true.</p>
<p>Have you tried to tap into the relationship your club coach has with the Stanford coach? He might be able to find out why, because if your understanding is correct, the Stanford coach would also have been disappointed, and therefore, I expect would have asked the Stanford admissions why you got deferred.</p>
<p>Good luck in UPenn.</p>
<p>With two kids recruited to D1 rowing programs, I’ve figured out a few things -</p>
<ul>
<li>Coaches want the best possible recruits. They are only interested in your academics in terms of whether they can get you through admissions. They care about your erg times, your height & your results - in that order. (in my opinion)
Erg times are their only objective measure of your potential abilities. (It seems that the kids with the most recruiting options & success on my kids’ teams have had the best erg scores, not necessarily the top results on the team.)
Results are dependent on many other factors, primarily the rest of the rowers in the boat with you. Certainly top finishes at the most competitive regattas are considered and the best recruits usually have good results. That being said, coaches believe that they can teach a kid to have better form, but they can’t teach strength & size. Coaches also understand that if you’re in a small program, your race results may be restricted by the limitations of your team, hence once again, the importance of your erg time.</li>
</ul>
<p>Remember a coach will opt for the best possible athletic recruit EVEN IF THAT ATHLETE APPEARS AT THE VERY END OF THE RECRUITING PROCESS! That means where you are ranked on a coach’s priority list is fluid and can change at any time. On the other hand, if their top recruits fall through - they may decide they want and need you, even if they’ve seemed somewhat lukewarm. So hang in there and maintain contact with coaches of teams you are interested in - you never know. This is true of all programs from the top ranked on down. Never forget that a coach’s job success is judged by their team’s results, not your grade in chemistry or how much they like you as a person.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The Ivies all need to have teams that meet a certain academic average. This means that they need athletes that can balance out top recruits that may have a relatively low AI. (Remember, this is not a helmet sport, so there isn’t that much leeway) So, if you have outstanding academics AND fit their athlete profile with regard to erg time, height & results, a borderline athlete may be pulled in. Pay attention to which ivy teams are less competitive - they may be your best bet if you’re a borderline recruit, but fit the ivy academic profile comfortably.</p></li>
<li><p>Be realistic and ask coaches direct questions that will give you a sense of your chances.
*** Ask the range of erg times for last year’s recruiting class.
If the slowest time is 5 or 10 seconds faster than you - pay attention. If your times don’t drop, your chances are poor, no matter how good your academics are. (Erg times should be verifiable - at an official indoor competition or at least by your current coach.)
In rowing, height matters so that rowers in their boats match up. Some coaches are more willing to overlook a smaller rower if they believe the athlete is a good recruit. If you are somewhat height challenged, relatively speaking, ask if they’ve got athletes on their team that are your height. (Usually you can find heights listed on the profiles of the current team roster.)
Finally, ask how many slots the coach has for the upcoming recruiting class and how many they had last year. Some will have just a couple of slots and some may have as many as 10. The strength of the team is not necessarily an indication of how many slots they receive.</p></li>
<li><p>The amount of pull that a coach has with their admissions office will vary from school to school. It depends upon how how highly rowing is prioritized by the admissions & athletic departments. This means that a top rowing recruit may actually have a better chance at gaining admittance at a more academically competitive school that prioritizes rowing.</p></li>
<li><p>With regard to Stamford rowing, unfortunately your story is not totally unfamiliar. As I recall, there were some woman rowers that believed that they’d been promised slots on the Stamford women’s team about 3 years ago. These were top recruits, who had options to be recruited at other academically outstanding schools. They found themselves without a spot and scrambling at the last minute. The shame was that by the time they were denied admission, their options were limited by the fact that many schools had completed their recruiting.
If my rower was athletically and academically in the running to be considering Stamford, I’d be wary, because it appears that Stamford rowing coaches have had problems with predicting admissions outcomes for some of their recruits.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>This can be an important lesson with regard to all rowing recruits - if the coach is not able to produce a likely letter (ivy) or a letter of intent - proceed with caution. It may be worth it to choose a school that it willing to offer some sort of official assurance. Understand that not all schools and teams offer either of these. It’s your job to figure out which schools that match your interests & athletic abilities that do and make informed decisions. There are lots of great schools with rowing teams that may not offer either. I don’t mean to suggest that they shouldn’t be considered, just that you should understand the recruiting process at the schools that you’re interested in. Is it worth it to gamble on a college that won’t provide you with a “likely letter” or a letter of intent, over a school that will?
I believe that it isn’t unreasonable to ask a coach directly if they’ve had athletes that have been denied admission, even after admissions has indicated that their recruits should get through. The truth is, unless you’ve got something in writing, don’t count on it.</p>
<p>Sorry for the ramble, but I wish I’d been able to read something like this post when my family was first embarking on the recruiting process. I hope that this will be useful to someone who is starting now.</p>
<p>One other thing to keep in mind as athletic recruits is that the coaches often recruit their athletes the same whether you are their top recruit or a back up to a back up. When you are in a NCAA sport and sign a national letter of intent, admission is part of the NLI (unless you do something like fail a class). The NCAA has strict rules about this. However, it appears for other sports, they can promise and not deliver admission. Not sure who governs this type of recruitment.</p>
<p>Great post @anothersomeone </p>
<p>The best tip I’ve picked up on these boards when it comes to Ivy recruiting - and it sounds kind of simple but has been very helpful to me - is that the only thing coaches really care about when it comes to academics is whether or not a recruit can meet the minimum admission requirements. Once a recruit clears that hurdle, all that really matters is the athletics. They will take a lightweight with a 2100 SAT and a 6:28 2K over a lightweight with a 2300 and 6:35 just about every time. </p>
<p>Good luck to everyone racing at Stotes this weekend. I am hoping the predicted rain doesn’t make it a total washout.</p>
<p>Sorry, you were wait listed. IMO Stanford is the apex of (both) college academics and athletics Possibly the most difficult to admitted based upon those two requirements. The way I read it the coaches gave you all the information you asked for. They set expectations…you were 3rd on THEIR list, Did you ask how many slots the Coach is able to bring in per year…the answer may be 2. The coaches iist is not the same Admissions list, and that is probably where you fell short. Or put another way, others haa d better stats in either athletics or academiics. You’ve got .a lot going for you with your backup school, so I wouldn’t worry so much about Stanford but rather focus on the Penn opportunity. Good luck.</p>
<p>It is a shame you may have difficulty appreciating the UPenn opportunity. Do your best to forget about Stan.</p>
<p>@Pennquakers18: your gpa and ACT are actually a little low for Stanford. Did the coaches get a pre-read from admissions on you? </p>
<p>Agree 100%, be happy you are going to Penn, which has a strong rowing program.</p>
<p>Stanford always seemed very California-centric to me, that kids from any other state who thought they were shoo-ins suddenly found themselves left out.</p>
<p>You also have to realize that whomever told you what, may not have been given permission to do so. Like why Jill Abramson was fired, she promised something to someone without getting permission, and a colleague basically told the NY Times “she goes or I go”. </p>
<p>Other thing is that they may have had a higher ranked recruit fall into their lap, it does happen.</p>
<p>Until you (and they) sign that letter of intent, no one is bound. Since men’s rowing isn’t an NCAA sport, there is no LOI, so either side is free to withdraw the offer or acceptance.</p>
<p>I was just reading a recruiting report that two 2016 (current sophomores) have ‘committed’ to Harvard. Hope admissions is just as committed in 2 years.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Unbelievable. </p>
<p>This just in…My 8 week old yellow lab puppy just committed to Cornell’s ultimate Frisbee team. ;-)</p>