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It would only be possible if it was her own kids’ grades she was fixing.</p>
<p>^ And that would be pretty hard to do. Our school will only send an “official transcript” which has to be reviewed.</p>
<p>I honestly think this person’s kids were qualified and just got accepted as someone else mentioned. I have seen a few students who were practically worshiped by the administration and guidance in our HS who were not accepted at their top schools. If there were any magic way someone in guidance (let alone a parent volunteer) could get them in, thay would have.</p>
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Hard, but not impossible. Thus the arrest I referenced. There was a thread about it.</p>
<p>I think it’s more likely that the kids had something going on that nobody knew about, but as I’ve posted before, my kid has been terrorized throughout high school by a parent, so I don’t rule out anything as impossible anymore.</p>
<p>I bet she hacked into the computer and used someone else’s top transcripts to send in the packet, instead of her own kid’s! Sounds like something you may see on Glee!!</p>
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<p>This is my vote too: that the mom snooped to see where the other kids were applying and made a point to differentiate her kids’ applications. If your HS is one of those ‘feeder’ schools, I imagine colleges expect to accept some kids. So why not take this kid, when the application is even more tailored as a good ‘fit’?</p>
<p>I’ve been thinking about the results of recent ED and EA decisions. I’m intrigued by who got in and who didn’t. There’s one combination of girls who applied to a particular college: one got in, another rejected. Yet, the rejected kid is a totally mature, smart well-liked kid. The accepted kid is not as well respected. Can’t figure out what they saw in one and not the other. But, like the OP, I gotta wonder, “what were they looking for?”</p>
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<p>In the absence of any evidence that this mother snooped, changed grades, etc., this is all just pure speculation. I’m sorry, it DOES sound like sour grapes to me. The proper response to someone whose kids get into great schools is “Hey, great! Congrats to you!” and then move on with your life. Not wringing one’s hands about supposedly unfair advantages and pouting as to why. </p>
<p>You have no idea what her kids’ apps looked like. Maybe grandpa donates seven figures to the school. Maybe they did some EC not affiliated with the school that was really unique. Maybe they wrote killer essays. Who knows? Who pokes into other people’s business like that, anyway?</p>
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<p>But any GC can do this–this doesn’t smack of any favoritism. </p>
<p>I think that the reason the person who changed grades got caught is that she changed the grades of OTHER kids than her own. Those kids KNOW what their transcript is supposed to look like.</p>
<p>The place that I would get info about where other kids in the high school were applying was the kids themselves. I guess kids at our local high school who choose to apply to high end schools is such a small group that they are more supportive of each other than viewing each other as “the competition.” </p>
<p>I know that there ARE some schools where that is not the case.</p>
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<p>This frosts me. Colleges know darn well that at the majority of public hs in the country, the students are anonymous to the GC, and yet they still ask for these stupid recommendations, knowing darn well that the private school GC’s will write thoughtful missives based on real understanding and the public school GC’s can’t write more than a generic “Sally seems to be a smart student and the teachers appear to like her well enough.” Why does this charade persist? I’d really like to hear from an adcom as to why.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, my kids went to public school and got excellent recommendations from their teachers. I don’t know what my son’s GC wrote – it never occurred to me to ask – but she wouldn’t have had very many to write, because the state schools don’t require recs. I think its unlikely that there were more than a dozen kids, at most, who applied to selective private colleges. </p>
<p>While I am sure that private schools do more, I think its an overstatement to say that public school students are “anonymous” to their GC’s or to think that the college’s penalize them if it is clear that they come from a large public school.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, you’re right. It was pure conjecture on my part to think this mom did some snooping. It’s just as likely that since she was in the college guidance area during this important time that she knew which kids were applying to which colleges. That’s not at all dishonest, and it is quite appropriate. She also probably picked up some good pointers about how to do things the right way, stuff anyone could pick up if they volunteered there. She was smart to be doing this volunteering, and something we all should do, if we could. Obviously, getting into top college is a high priority in this family.</p>
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<p>How would a kid differentiate his application beyond that which he is already doing?</p>
<p>My kids also went to a huge, generic public school, but I happen to know (because they told me) tht the GC’s wrote personalized, to-the-point recs. The kids made a point of sitting down wtih them and talking to them. That’s all it took. Especially since, as Calmom says, in big public hs’s, not many kids are looking for tht kind of rec, because not many are going to colleges where it matters, or is required.</p>
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<p>People chose to answer their phones, answer questions, then gossip about this woman and she’s the problem? These same people are gossiping viciously about this woman with no proof and yet I’m supposed to sympathize with them?</p>
<p>If people acted with maturity and common sense, then this woman would not be an issue. It takes two to tango. Some people just don’t want to admit that they enjoy the tango too, so they whine about being bothered by it.</p>
<p>I truly have absolutely no patience for this behavior.</p>
<p>Thanks for the interesting responses. I probably didn’t do a great job of outlining the personality issues with the person that probably drive people to notice things more. I don’t think it’s always that “people answer their phone and choose to talk”…you can run into her anywhere…as I said, it’s a small town. And while she is boasting, she is also putting you and your kid down. It’s a little hard to explain without revealing things that would be too specific…but she will ask you what seems to be a very innocent question (i.e. Is your child doing such and such this year?) and you would politely answer (yes, he loves that kind of thing) and then she would respond with (oh, well, <em>I</em> think that kids who do that kind of thing aren’t serious students and it’s really inappropriate that they even offer it in our school…). It’s not only about your kid, but you as well. (One time many years ago she actually said something to me along the lines of “I think it really has a detrimental effect on teenagers when mothers work outside the home…I do feel that the reason my children are so serious and committed and don’t attend parties where inappropriate things are going on is because I’m there to support them” This was after she found out my kid was going to the middle school dance and some kid’s hour afterwards for a party. And yes, I work outside the home of course. And yes, she started by asking me if my kid was going to the dance!) Usually that only happens to someone a couple of times and they do learn to avoid her. </p>
<p>People are of course entitled to express their opinions to others about this or any situation, just as they are entitled to post scathing opinions on a message board. Some people prefer to be anonymous (message board) and others don’t mind if people know that it’s them talking (which is being called gossip here). </p>
<p>At any rate, it’s clear that it’s much easier to have these discussions when the players and actual events are known. Too many assumptions get made on message boards I think, and some of the comments here are definitely more scathing than the worst “gossip” I have heard in town!! Also, we kind of got off track…even though the woman is insufferable, people are amazed that, out of sixteen kids applying ED to a particular Ivy, only her kid got in! It’s true that her being insufferable <em>may</em> make for more talk, but maybe not…people would still be scratching their heads anyway. </p>
<p>Lastly, are any of you living in places where people aren’t constantly talking about colleges…who got in, who didn’t, <em>how</em> they got in, etc? I was at a party in town recently and that is all anyone talked about the entire time! I definitely have found that parents of kids headed for tippy top schools are much more prone to talking about this stuff. I guess that is why there are more of them on CC as well.</p>
<p>If this is small town living, count me as one happy camper to be living in a big city. The sad thing is we wonder why teenagers do petty triffling things to one another and not look at the examples we are setting.</p>
<p>Remember when you point the finger at someone, there are 3 more pointing back at you. It still goes back to my main question, why are you letting this woman live in your head, and why are you giving her so much power? If you are happy with your child’s outcomes, and she is happy with her child’s outcomes then it is all good.</p>
<p>Sybbie,</p>
<p>I lived in New York City (UES) for many many years. Believe me, this is nothing compared to the back-biting competitiveness, scathing commentary, and one-upmanship I witnessed there on a daily basis! (I heard stories that would curl your hair about people sabotaging other people’s kids’ admissions to private schools, stealing nannies, etc. And there was <em>plenty</em> of gossip.) It was a big big relief to move out of the big city!!</p>
<p>another good reason to send your kid to an “out of town” school; my daughter attends a private school 20 minutes away; while I know all of her friends, I only casually know their parents from drop-offs, etc…</p>
<p>I live in a town very similar to RTR; went through this same “crap” (will CC delete that?) two years ago with my older daughter who was in the public school; during her senior year I pared down my friends (acquaintances) drastically…and town parties were off the calendar…</p>
<p>Now, if I run into anybody in town, the first words out of their mouths are “where is your daughter looking at schools?”…I find it soooo annoying; my standard speech is that she is looking “all over the place”…and that’s it…I change the subject </p>
<p>Honestly, given that I have friends with kids ranging from 25 down to 5 years old, I am really over this whole college “conversation”…CC is fine; I prefer to explore, help, contribute here to the anxiety prone phone calls I constantly get from locals…</p>
<p>Obviously the woman is something of a jerk. That’s not her kid’s fault.</p>
<p>My guess is that they put up 1500+ board scores and have very good grades in difficult courses. A good recipe for Ivy admissions. Add three 720-30 + SAT II scores and your application fits right into the “secret” pattern.</p>
<p>Harvard really cares very little if you were the quarterback or a starter on any athletic team. Unless you were all-state in a decent state, you can’t play there. And being president of a club is better than being a member, but not by a ton. </p>
<p>There is some chance of foul play with transcripts, but I really doubt it. To get admitted to the Ivy’s you’d have to game the entire application from scores to recommendations to grades and courses. Not impossible, but very tough to do. Frankly, from your description of this woman, she doesn’t sound smart enough to pull that off.</p>
<p>Guidance - what happens in that non-transparent world, where the recs are not seen, and the guidance counselor comments unknown? </p>
<p>I too, in a small town, had my share of surprizes last year with DS1’s cohort - the role atheletics plays in college admissions was not clear to me until I saw some unexpected admits to tippy-top schools for the athlete that just did not seem to occur for the oboe player, based on my limited vantage point. Likewise, it became clear that the students considered ‘nice’ by the gc also seemed to do better in the overall admissions pools than their peers with more difficult coursework and less outgoing personalities. </p>
<p>The mom in question does have an unique vantage point that we sidelines parents do not have - to see where other kids apply, to see what the gc values and highlights in an application, to hear what the college reps say to the gc and the gc to the college reps during visits, to field the phone calls from an adcom looking for a missing ‘this or that’ that can be opportunities to put in a positive word for the student, or implicitly compare one applicant to another…and all this in an environment where the gc and the other staff members do not have to report all those seemingly innocent communications back to the student (nor could they in the time constraints) so that the student could adapt and respond…e.g. ad com, looking for a copy of a rec, remarks that the coursework looks somewhat challenging, only to be met with a ‘yes, it is somewhat difficult’ rather than a ‘no, course a taught by teacher b is the toughest in the school, and the average grade is a C’ type response. Were the student to be aware of the comment, he or she might highlight the B grade in a mid-year submission, as an example of success, rather than average results…</p>
<p>I will have DS2 work a different process - after experiences with DS1 - he’s a different kid anyway, but, in particular, I will suggest that he highlight certain things in his application (the difficulty of certain classes as a senior that he will take for example) that I am not sure that the gc did for DS1. I only learned from “one” prior experience, whereas the mom, working in guidance, gets to see a number of issues over a number of years…and can intervene to suggest that perhaps teacher A clear up the typos in the rec letter, or otherwise have the gc present a better app for the student…I know that I was surprized at the formatting of DS1’s rec letters - typos, and just general poor presentation - that could have been avoided if a staff member highlighted something or other…</p>
<p>RTR, it will all work in the end.</p>
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I’d consider it inappropriate for a parent volunteer to be in a position to do any of these things, with the possible exception of overhearing conversations between the GC and an adcom. And if a GC or adcom mentioned potentially advantageous info in the earshot of a parent volunteer, I’d consider them unprofessional. If the adcom underlines the need for a thoughtful essay, fine - everyone knows kids are supposed to write thoughtful essays. But if the adcom spills that the school looks with special favor on essays about oatmeal, then I think the GC should be sure all that school’s applicants hear about it. I’ll admit I’ve lost track and don’t recall whether the vol at RTR’s school had any of these duties or opportunities – hope she didn’t. </p>
<p>If an adcom gave credence to positive words for an applicant – or, even more hair-raising, an implicit comparison of two applicants – from someone who happened to answer the phone, without finding out his/her qualifications, I’d wonder how such an airhead/sleazeball got that kind of job! Man, I hope more professionalism is expected of those folks.</p>