Son's prom night DUI

Parents Forum
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<p>“Your second sentence directly contradicts your first.”</p>

<p>No, it doesn’t. I disagree with trying minors as adults for policy reasons – I don’t think it is good for society to mix juveniles with adult offenders. That doesn’t have anything to do with whether I find it contradictory to treat minors as adults in a criminal context and as children in a victim context. So while I disagree with the law, it is perfectly logical. If you choose to exercise the adult privilege of driving, we will treat you as an adult in connection with that driving. Makes sense.</p>

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<p>I know of a college student who was arrested on multiple felony charges–selling LSD and cocaine among them–and he should have gone to prison for several years. His family retained a very high-priced, influential lawyer who had the charges reduced to a short amount of jail time (already served, I think like 3 weeks?) and the lawyer met with the college administration to have the student re-admitted. Done deal, the student graduated. </p>

<p>Also, DH was recruiting for his law office and one of the candidates–obviously a law school grad–had been arrested on DUI charges as well as misdemeanor weed while in h/s. Didn’t stop her getting into law school, she just needed to do some extra footwork.</p>

<p>There was a 17 year-old boy in my high school class who was drunk, speeding, and carried 2 other passengers. His car overturned into a lake and the 2 other passengers drowned, he survived. He was charged with manslaughter, DUI, the whole bit. He still got into college. Of course that was years ago, when things were more lenient, but still, your son will not have a problem getting into college, just maybe not the BEST college. Also, it provides some ample subject matter for what could be a great essay.</p>

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<p>See I think the drug laws are way out of wack. How many in jail for using?</p>

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<p>No disagreement from me! Unlike drunk driving, a victimless crime (except for the one incarcerated).</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>While most features of “legal adulthood” occur at age 18 in the US, not everything does. For example:</p>

<ul>
<li>Can get a driver’s license (usually 16).</li>
<li>Can be tried in adult court for some crimes.</li>
<li>Purchase alcoholic beverages (21).</li>
<li>Independent for college financial aid purposes (24, if not married or a military veteran).</li>
<li>Age of consent.</li>
</ul>

<p>The first three happen to be relevant to this discussion.</p>

406

<p>Re: illegal drug use</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes, it does seem odd that some take a very hard line on illegal drug use (including alcohol for those under 21) but a softer line on DUI.</p>

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<p>I posted this elsewhere; it’s an interview by and of public and private high school kids in NYC about acquiring and smoking pot. Worth listening for the prom story. It’s about 8 minutes long.
[The</a> Mary Jane Mindset: Teenagers and Marijuana - WNYC](<a href=“http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2013/may/09/mary-jane-mindset/]The”>http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2013/may/09/mary-jane-mindset/)</p>

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<p>Actually I do believe that alcoholism and drug addictions are medical problems. I spent a lot of time at a HOSPITAL that focused on these problems because that is where I sent my kid. That hospital also has a focus on mental problems which I also believe are medical problems. The three issues seem to be connected. </p>

<p>It’s difficult many times to be able to tell if a kid has medical problems with alcohol and drugs when he first gets into trouble, and even trained personale can’t always tell for sure. Was the kid just doing this on a situational basis, or is this going to be an addiction in the future? With a lot of kids, the addiction would not have manifested itself yet, if the parents have kept the opportunities down low. Which we did. I was pretty much on top of my kids so that getting a lot of drugs and booze was not going be easy. They will say the same. But we do have a family history of alcoholism in many sides of the family. And addictions. My siblings and I are acutely aware of this. </p>

<p>So this medical center upon given the facts of the situation felt that there was a good chance that my son could possibly have addiction issues and that a drug education program and discussions would benefit him. Also, there were some flags in terms of mental stability, in that he always had, and still did like risk taking activities. Impulsive, loved danger and risk and thrills. So the mental health departments of the hospital were also called into action when all of this happened. </p>

<p>So I had no compunction about throwing my kid in there, nor would I, to advise the OP to have his son evaluated and possible stay on therapy as he has to navigate his way through the next year with all of this on his head. </p>

<p>Now I would not have placed him in Memorial Sloan Kettering, but I don’t go there for a belly ache at least initially, but you know, that’s how my father’s colon cancer symptoms started, and he might have done better, had he seen a cancer doctor sooner rather than later, as he died of it. And apparently that runs in families too, so I do have colonoscopys regularly. We have cancer in our family, as well as alcholism, and I already have a kid who is a card carrying MSK patient, fortunately now for childhood survivor followup. </p>

<p>Chicabuena, it does often work the way you have stated. If you are lucky enough to get a very good lawyer, and as Blossom said earlier, they could be from the pubic defender ranks as well as private ones, you can do better in the courtroom than if you get someone who isn’t fighting your case whole hog and who does not have some pull in that courtroom. All expensive private attorneys are not good at their jobs, and may not be good in your case, and may fail to get any resolution you had hoped, however. It does up the odds to have a good attorney who knows the court, judge and most importantly the DA and can deal with them. Our court system is an adversarial one, so the way it works they go after you for all they can get, and you fight back to get as little as possible. Because DAs don’t like to lose cases and many courts are just overbooked, they will often deal, so one’s mileage will vary as to what the penalties are. I think studies have shown that those without the money don’t do as well and get harsher sentences. No surprise there.</p>

<p>I think that in most states,most of the time, a first time offender, a minor, who gets caught speeding and has that alcohol level with a date who was also drinking as a passenger, coming from the high school prom would not have to serve 30 days in jail. Especially with an attorney skilled in these situations handling the case. I don’t think it is likely to happen here. I don’t even think it is close that he would even have a 50% chance of a month in jail time for this. </p>

<p>So just by that definition, the sentence is harsh. Also, in his jurisdiction prior to December 2012, those in his situation would not likely have gotten 30 days in jail. </p>

<p>I have other reasons as well, but they are more personal and subjective. These are flat out facts that I have laid out. If that kid has to serve 30 days in jail, he’ll have had to serve a far harsher sentence than most anyone who has done what he did.</p>

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<p>2016BarnardMom (#380), and others who have asked: The drinking after track was isolated, he told us, to one teammate’s house where beer is apparently available due to lack of close supervision. This teammate lives less than a mile from us so he’s always walked there. We’ve known the family since we moved to the area but aren’t particularly close. I don’t think my son has been there more than 3 or 4 times.</p>

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<p>I am friends with a woman who lost her son to a drug overdose (also know a college girl from infancy who so died) who is on a vendetta about throwing drug dealers into jail. Especially those who can directly be traced to having provided the drugs that caused the overdose. When you look at her stats, the incarceraton rate is low, way too low for those dealing drugs. She WANTED her kid in jail to save him from his addiction and they wouldn’t keep him there, due to overcrowding. Maybe due to the DUIs in there. (bad joke there)</p>

<p>I don’t know the numbers, and the stats so I can’t say what the story is with drugs. Around here as long as you are carrying too much (which is what makes you a dealer), there isn’t a lot of trouble for taking or having illegal drugs. In fact, getting someone jailed for driving while on drugs is far more difficult as the testing isn’t as easy or as definitive the way it is done around here. So for those who feel that alcohol is more dangerous, around here, that is where the onus is. We have crackdowns where the cops set up barriers and sniff your car and breath, random checkpoints. They are looking for DUIs with a vengeance here. It’s the more widespread problem, though someone driving while on drugs that make it risky are a danger too, but the penalties aren’t the same. In fact, in NC and here it is a mitigating factor if you can show you were on some other drug. Gahhh. I don’t get that, but that is the law.</p>

<p>I do have a hard line about alcohol for minors and I don’t ask for a free pass for DUI. But for this minor, in this case who is facing 30 days of jail time, I think it is too harsh for very specific reasons I have given. It’s not based on it being an understandable thing he did or anything like that. The penalites are out of line in his jurisdiction as compared to most anywhere and in his own courts, any time.</p>

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<p>Here’s my advice for all parents on this thread. Three iron clad rules for your underage “partiers”. Always have a designated driver who invests Nothing! If you must drink, whatever, the witching hour is 11:30pm. After that, you must stay where you are until dawn/ morning. Teens driving in " kids" cars are like a bunch if ducklings walking a gauntlet after midnight. The cops have nothing better to do than tail these cars and pull them over for the slightest infraction. And the MOST IMPORTANT rule is the phrase" Officer, you do whatever you feel is right, but whatever you do to me will be nothing to what my parents do to me if I talk with you, take a breathalyzer or give permission for ANYTHING without speaking with my parents first. " so, with your permission I’d like to call them right now and find out what I should do. "</p>

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<p>I mean ingests nothing</p>

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<p>If you are driving drink nothing. If you are a passenger, be polite and refuse permission for anything. They might still arrest for mip but , odds are better your snowflake will dodge any bullets. After 3 sons I have this down to a science and it has worked well. Each has been pulled over, the youngest just in Jan, and, when my son politely refused the breathalyzer ( he was a passenger) the cops called him a ■■■■■■, double cuffed him and put him in a jail cell. Fairly unprofessional , but I showed up within 45 min, they released him and of course, with my atty on speed we agreed to a 100 dollar donation to the Y . now, was I happy that my son had broken rule 2 ? you bet . Furious. So, in sme ways I agree that kids w parents who are relatively savvy wil get off much more lightly than those who are naive to the system. If your kid is pulled over, in most instances, the officers are not on their sides.</p>

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<p>Regarding “the Mary Jane Mindset”, I don’t see that. I’m linked into a lot of the independent schools in the area, and I simply do not see it. i have a very sensitive nose, and can smell pot a mile away, and I’ve been in the stairwells a lot at any number of high schools talked with kids stuck my head in cars, gone to homes, and I simply have not sniffed it. If they weren’t eating the stuff in brownies or cookies, they either have found a scentless variety, or they are not smoking it. You can’t hid the smell of that stuff which why I doubt their stories.</p>

<p>As for parents providing it to their kids, I’ve no doubt it happens, but I’ve yet to hear anyone openly saying that. If any of the independent schools I know got a whiff, literally of that or hear a parent saying s/he provides the stuff it would out the doors very quickly. I’ve seen it. I know a lifer, legacy, celebrity whose family heavily supported the school get kicked out for smoking a joint senior year Teacher caught a whiff, and it was into the interrogation chair, and he and the others with him that he named were all expelled. Shocking to all, but there was no tolerance of this.</p>

<p>Alcohol is a whole other story, since in NY it is LEGAL to give your kid a glass of wine and other forms of alcohol in the privacy of your home. So it’s your business to do this. Giving it to other kids…that can be an issue, but there is a bigger grayer area with alcohol. You can also legally buy alcohol here as an adult. I wouldn’t know where to get pot if I wanted some, and probably wouldn’t trust a lot f the sources. </p>

<p>You buy the pot for a party, and you can be in big time trouble if caught, since dealing laws apply by quantity. But a single use amount of weed is like a traffic ticket here, and many times the cops won’t even bother unless you tick them off or they have another agenda for you and are throwing the charges in there. </p>

<p>Prescription drugs have become a huge problem here, and I have no idea how they are being handled by the law. Especially abuse of the same by those who have reason for the prescription. </p>

<p>So drugs may be a victimless crime when the user isn’t selling, but most junkies have to sell to feed their habits. My friend’s son was a junkie of the worst kind, IMO as he sold his drugs to kids he knew who would likely not have that access to them without his help. The reason being that he was so far gone that he would go buy the goods from the type of people, that most high school kids would not go and do business with. But because they knew him,he was a insider, a friend of an older sibling, the brother of a younger one, he was a good conduit for buying drugs. So in that respect he was even more dangerous than the drug dealers in the bad neighborhoods in that the connection is not likely to be made without someone like him. He was also a danger because he would ask for rides to meet with drug contacts. Sadly, he brought a lot kids into contact with the drug world. </p>

<p>In 20 years, I 've known a number of college kids who died of alcohol related disasters, though not car accidents, oddly, and those who were hospitalized for alcohol poisoning. Something I never knew about as a college student. Binge drinking I guess. But I do know a number of kids who have ODed on drugs, and the one disappearance being attributed alcohol/shady business, I suspect as do others, including the investigators that illicit drugs were heavily involved. So I do worry about the drugs around here, and am scared to death, as word of some of these deaths truly came out of left field and smacked me. A couple of them were expected, because the kids were confirmed junkies, but it still hurts. </p>

<p>Alcohol abuse is more common because it is legal and more available and more people drink and more families are relaxed about it. Which causes more deaths among those under age 25? The drugs or alcohol, I don’t know. Mini, I’m sure does in his field. But I do not look at the use and trafficing illegal drugs as a victimless crime.</p>

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<p>Here is an interesting chart on where and in what circumstances underage drinking is allowed. It is done by state.
[43</a> States That Allow Underage (under 21) Alcohol Consumption - Drinking Age - ProCon.org](<a href=“http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591]43”>State-by-State MLDA Exceptions - Drinking Age - ProCon.org)</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse, I think you are very, very wrong about potsmoking students in independent schools, at least the Manhattan-brownstone Brooklyn variety. I know kids at public NYC high schools who went to private school through grade 8 and won’t go to parties with their old classmates because they just don’t want to deal with it. Not that there is no pot in public schools, of course there is and probably more student dealers too, but there is a lot less money to buy it. And Manhattan/brownstone Brooklyn kids with enough bucks can just call a dial-a-pot dealer–no lurking on street corners for them!</p>

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<p>A group at our local high school (all students with licenses) have a “taxi” service for Fri/ Sat nights for district students who have a drink or are otherwise incapacitated and need a ride. Could be if your ride is drunk or rude too. Any reason really, a ride within the district boundaries. There was a huge uproar a few years ago when the police stopped such a car, and the passengers refused the test. The driver was sober but according to the police failed the field sobriety test, took the kids to the station and harassed them. The driver was not drinking but charges were contemplated until the Big Bears came roaring in there, and the police had to eat crow instead of cub meat that day. The program has a very shaky relationship with the police at this point. </p>

<p>It’s a tough go as to how to feel about these ride services and designated driver arrangements when the kids making these plans are clearly underage for drinking.</p>

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<p>Well I would prefer that my son and his friends not party at all, but as my H and I were extremely wild in our youth it’s hard to clamp down completely. At least for me… So over time my rules evolved and are fairly standard in our social circle. And they can always call us for a ride no questions asked.</p>

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<p>Oldmom, I could be wrong. But the old nose has never caught a whiff of that stuff and i am pretty good at sniffing it out… And, I’ve been to the schools and the homes of those whose kids go to those schools, and had kids at such schools. Not one sniff. And not one parent advocating pot smoking for kids or defending it. Not once. </p>

<p>Not so with alcohol. I know many parents who provide drinks for their underage kids, serve it and even provide it parties. Kids have to stay at the house once they enter, leaving only with parent or the next morning. But they have made it clear that alcohol is available. I would not let my kids go to any of those parties, sleepovers or not, something my kids begrudge to this day. But, yes, I am aware of this. A lot of European and other international families in the mix too, who served alcohol regularly at family meals, and yes, the kids got some too. </p>

<p>So, no, I am not wrong, in that I have not seen or sniffed any of this sort of thing in that scene. And my one son was quite the socialiser in that scene, and there has been no discussion about parents at these schools abetting and tolerating pot smoknig among their high schoolers. Alcohol, yes, especially the wines and beers. Pot, nope, other illegal drugs, nope, but legal drugs , sometimes maybe not needed for conditions that maybe are not so clear…yes.</p>

<p>That doesn’t mean this scene is not there, by the way. I am not the be all, know all of these things. Just hasn’t been within sniffing range of me, and I’ve clocked 15 years on that watch.</p>

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<p>I have been following this thread and decided to have a chat with my seventeen year-old son several minutes ago. We have had many discussions about drinking and driving and I would hope that he would never take that risk. I am not naive as to the fact that teenage kids drink and smoke pot. However, I had never had the discussion about what to say to a police officer if he was ever pulled over. I only spoke in vague terms of being very respectful. So, based on cheeky monkey’s post, we had a discussion that went beyond being respectful and to the specifics of what you say exactly. When I told him the possible ramifications to NCdad’s son, he said, " that kid was stupid for drinking and driving, especially on prom night." I can’t even imagine the stress that NC’s family is going through and I agree with cpt that it is very easy to say what you might or might not do, until it happens to you and your child. NONE of us know what we would do or what our kids might do. They are impulsive teenagers, some more impulsive than others. They don’t think long term and are driven by the moment. My son has been called a very old soul, but sometimes he does things that remind me that he is still a 17 year old boy (a game of Fugitive anyone?).</p>