<p>And the only reason that Christie caved is that he was urged to by Bonjovi, whose daughter almost died from an overdose and then was arrested (in NY, I think.)</p>
<p>The Gov’ner does like his rock stars! (For him, the only good thing about Hurricane Sandy was it finally got Springsteen to be friendly to him.)</p>
<p>We should decriminalize underage drinking. It shouldn’t ruin a life or a record. It should be a ticket.</p>
<p>Mini, I think you would find this interesting. It is about the drinking age (and other things).
[CBI:</a> Saul Levmore, “What?s the Right Drinking Age? and Other Problems of the Slippery Slope” | University of Chicago Law School](<a href=“http://www.law.uchicago.edu/video/levmore111009]CBI:”>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/video/levmore111009)
I dislike age limits that are greater than 18, e.g. One has to be 35 years of age to be President, I don’t think that should be codified into law. I think that Presidents should be at least that old, but if someone wants to run at 30, as a citizen that should be their own progrative.</p>
<p>I am quite aware that the use of any age is somewhat arbitrary. But the age 21 drinking age has been demonstrated to work quite well. In the current context, an age 18 drinking age would be, in my judgment - and I used to deal with the data on this for a living, a virtual death sentence for thousands of 12-13 year olds. </p>
<p>Things are so much better here than they are in virtually all of northern Europe.</p>
<p>One of the problems I see is that parents are unwilling to set limits and give kids consequences. So many kids get drunk at parties etc… and parents know this but next day the kids still get to drive their cars to meet friends, go to school and so on. </p>
<p>My kids know that if I know or hear about any drinking and they did not first tell me then the consequences will be worse. My kids have cars but know I will refuse to let them drive for a set time if they tell me but if they try and hide this fact then they may be having to be driven by parents for months. This goes for other issues too. We may be strict but not one of my kids have objected. In fact they are amazed how classmates get off so easy and tell us they appreciate the limits because they know where to draw the line.</p>
<p>I’m not saying these kids and parents are necessarily bad but they want to be liked by the kids friends and have their kids flow with the popular crowd. Once kids take out the need to be popular and hang with friends who truly like themselves in a natural state not high on something then that is a first step in controlling the drinking and more.</p>
<p>@Sweet tea the problem here goes further. First the kid was not driving. Second my son was left alone to take the decision to call 911. If he called them and the kid ended up being fine, the parents would blame my kid ( even though he would have done the right thing) for landing him in jail and ruin his college acceptance. If did not call 911 and the kid got into a coma, the parents would blame my kid because he was the only sober person around that could have saved him .Suddenly my son, who was sober and not close to any of those kids, (he went to the party with his girlfriend and left earlier to take her home) had now to decide what to do with this kid. A very difficult decision I may add, because the kid was accepted into an Ivy and my son’s own school has a strict zero alcohol policy (what meat that not only he would have landed in jail, he would have also been expelled). I do not condone alcohol consumption, nor I want to change the age limit for minors, but I just do not want kids to be put in this type of risky situation.</p>
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<p>Definitely. In the Bon Jovi case, his daughter, a student at Hamilton College, OD on heroin. Her boyfriend–or at least a male friend–was in her dorm room with her when she OD. He called 911 for an ambulance. Doing so saved her life. He was arrested.</p>
<p>Thanks to NY state law, the charges were dropped. I doubt the guy knew it was the law when he called --he just did the right thing. If the charges had NOT been dropped, I’m sure that other Hamilton students would be reluctant to call in any similar situation. The publicity for the case made a lot of kids aware that there wouldn’t be a problem if they do the right thing.</p>
<p>The situation in #559 is unusual. Often the other people with someone when he gets extremely drunk or overdoses have been using stuff themselves so they risk being arrested in these situations in the absence of a good Samaritan law.</p>
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Rubbish,</p>
<p>The problem is that it is OUR right to not be governed by someone who is under the age of thirty-five or not a natural-born citizen, no matter what 51% of our fellow voting citizens think. Term limits, age minimums, residency requirements, and citizenship requirements are for the benefit of the people. Just as we have a right to not be governed by a king, even if one were elected, we have a right to not be governed by someone too young, who has been in the Oval Office for more than two terms, or someone whose citizenship leads us to question their allegiance to America.</p>
<p>The entire Constitution is about putting constraints on government and those who govern. </p>
<p>Pertinent to this discussion, the voting age is so that adults aren’t subject to the whims of minors at the ballot box. Likewise, anti-drunk-driving statutes exist because people have the right to not be killed on the road by someone who shouldn’t be driving.</p>
<p>ddahwan… I hear you…tough situation. People might see me as too strict in these circumstances but I personally would love to see some kids get their acceptances rescinded. Doesn’t matter to me if it is Ivy or not. Maybe that would sober up some parents. Doesn’t matter if it was a first time or not that the kids got drunk… so what? Why have drinking laws if it is only a little followed? Also the blame game from those parents is terrible. I would rather a kid was alive at the hospital and being expelled from school than at a funeral home after an OD. Those parents priorities are screwed up. The New York case seems to have some answers for those making the calls.</p>
<p>In states like Florida where someone cannot call 911 and get backlash it seems a no win situation. I see your S was waiting for the parents of the kid which I think is great of him and that he told you about the whole situation. Sounds like your S did the right thing.</p>
<p>So often even the schools sweep these issues under the rug because the parents of these kids doing this risky behavior is further enabling the kid by essentially paying off the school in the form of “donations” to the school fund. (I’m talking more here of private schools) Administrators will “let” the kid resign a position or somehow minimalize the act so that colleges don’t see the kid getting suspended or kicked out of a position because of drinking. It makes me sick!</p>
<p>I’m not saying getting caught should ruin one’s future but there should be consequences. Some colleges do a better job than others on policing underage drinking and perhaps we should look at what can be done so that kids get the medical treatment when needed. At the high school level there could be other safeguards. At least parents should do a better job of monitoring and making the statement of call at any hour rule if needed. Kids should feel free to call home for help but there should still be consequences. If parents find out second hand then major consequences. Unfortunately the law has to take over because there are a lot of parents not parenting.</p>
<p>Aaah I’m spending too much time on my soapbox! ;)</p>
<p>" I’m curious, how far is too far to bike? " - Kids can ride a long way, especially if mostly flat. The bigger concern is whether the distance includes stretches unsafe for biking. Of course in most place season/weather is a factor too.</p>
<p>I live in an area where most kids do not get cars as teenagers. My son did not have a car during high school - I would drive him to school in the morning,he usually walked or took the bus home in the afternoons. (I had to drive his younger sister to school anyway, his school was on the way). Later, there were times when my son was living at home and working in the city – I would drive him and pick him up from the transit station every day. It wasn’t a big deal – he didn’t have a car of his own until he was age 23. </p>
<p>My daughter went to high school in the city – a 45 minute round trip commute by car. I had a similar arrangement with her at first – I drove her in the mornings, she took public transit home. I just figured out a way to work the daily morning commute into my routine. (I work from home, but I’d drop her off every day and then swing by the gym for my workout - it was inconvenient but it got me into the gym)</p>
<p>Because of the long commute, when my daughter got her license I did buy a second car for her use. Most of her friends did not have cars – many did not even have licenses – so she ended up giving her friends rides to various places. It wasn’t a problem for her, because I was giving her a weekly allowance with what I thought was enough money to cover gas for the daily commute, and her friends were pitching in with gas money – so she probably came out ahead financially. So I’m guessing that the OP’s son probably also has friends who would be happy to have a passenger chipping in. </p>
<p>So yes, it’s inconvenient not to have a car, but as a parent if my d. had ever gotten behind the wheel after drinking and I had found out, I would have taken away the car & license, whether or not she had been arrested. She knew that: it was pretty much the ONLY rule in our house – once she had the car and license, she had complete freedom on everything else. (No curfew as long as she let me know where she was and if/when she was coming home.) I’m the type who has very few rules, but am adamant about the rules that I do set – a message my kids had pretty early on. Yes, it would have been really inconvenient I had needed to take my kid’s license… but the drinking and driving rule was absolute. My d. was an excellent driver so she was the “designated driver” for the adults in the family from the time she got her permit.</p>
<p>For me, it would have been a huge breach of trust if my d. had chosen to drive the car I entrusted her with after drinking. Even aside from safety or legal concerns, that would have been a deal-breaker. And whatever the inconvenience, it really would not have been any more inconvenient than the first 16 years of my d’s life when I did most of the driving to take her to school and other activities.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion going on the last few days. To answer the original question, he’ll be taking the bus to school and either biking or getting a ride from my wife or I everywhere else. We may let his sister drive him in a pinch when she gets her license later this year.</p>
<p>It makes it soooo much nicer to have a car. But, in truth, there are more buses and rides available on the high school level than the lower grades. Middle school, elem school, recreational center, private activities rarely provide a bus. For every single sporting even the high school has, transportation back to the school is provided. Because of the 18 age requirement in NYC and parts of our area, most parents drive their kids to these things anyways. It just makes things easier if you give the kid access to a car senior year, that is, if no problems arise. </p>
<p>I told all of mine that they can get a car when they could pay for it and the insurance which was a mistake, since one of mine did just that at age 17, when I really wasn’t on board for him owning a car. It worked out, but the potential for problems was there, and I should not have spouted off the way I did.</p>
<p>We have driven most of ours most place and car pooled with other parents doing the same. Yes, it is a pain.</p>
<p>As for penalities for underage drinking, that’s a difficult one. The services here that allow teens and young adults in the area to call for a ride when they feel it is unsafe for them to drive or be driven by someone in such a state, have come under a lot of fire and praise at the same time. The police here have been beaten into submission to let this continue and they are sullenly doing so. There were issues that arose in that they were harassing these designated drives and rounding up carloads of kids when they caught one of these runs. A lot of parents have a “no questions” asked policy about picking up their kids or friends if one of them has gone a bit too far in this area. What to do if your kid takes it too far? It’s supposed to be a failsafe measure, not something to use as routine but it can start going that way.</p>
<p>I agree that DUI laws for adults and minors should be maintain and that the legal drinking age should be 21( even though I came from a country that it was legal to drink at 18, but that’s another discussion) however teens make dumb choices. Their punishment should be in line with the severity of their crime, not an automatic sentence. If they have not put the life of others in jeopardy, maybe a fine, a few days of community service, could be considered for first time offenders (maybe other states do this already) and leave more harsh punishment for second time offenders. I do understand that is a two edge sword, but is the same as birth control controversy. If you promote birth control for teens,are you promoting teen sex? If you don’t, are you ignoring teen pregnancy?</p>
<p>ddahwan – as I understand it, CPT and others posters are making the argument that anytime a person drinks and then drives, they are necessarily putting the lives of others in danger. There is no such thing as “safe” DUI.</p>
<p>NCDad,</p>
<p>I asked my question because your note made me think your son was planning an extensive speaking tour in a wide geographic area at a range of hours, both day and evening. I also assumed you and your wife would have busy lives and not be able to drive him to and from these places.</p>
<p>By the way, I’m a lifelong nondriver, never even had a permit. I turned 16 at end of junior year in a small middle American town with very little transportation except cars. I walked to school. I only applied to colleges in the middle of large cities. I came for college and haven’t left.</p>
<p>Mihcal1 in the case of DUI I agree and that is why I am making the distinction here (I do not know if you read my post). I am not talking about kids that are drinking and the law. In Florida if a minor is in a party and gets seriously intoxicated and someone calls 911, that kid goes first to the hospital for treatment and then to jail (because is illegal for a minor to be drinking even if not driving). Many kids that are seriously intoxicated do not get help because of this law. That is my point.</p>
<p>"ddahwan – as I understand it, CPT and others posters are making the argument that anytime a person drinks and then drives, they are necessarily putting the lives of others in danger. There is no such thing as “safe” DUI. "</p>
<p>I might agree with the argument, but I did not think I was making it. Actually, my opinion, and it’s a firm one, is that the mandatory jail time associated with the OP’s son is too harsh. I don’t think for a first time offender, even with the aggravated circumstances in his case, should have mandatory jail time and that the DA be locked in so that lowering the charge is difficult, and the judge unable to make any judgement on the case. For repeat offenders, I would be more inclined to support mandatory outcomes so that they cannot slip through the system with lowered consequences. </p>
<p>I advocate the raising of the drinking age to 21, by the way, despite the stats that show the saving of lives. I think part of those stats are due to what happens anytime you restrict the ages or anything of any group. You can get even better stats by raising the age to 25 or 30 or having Prohibition, for that matter. I also think some of the lives saved are due to stricter pursuit of drinking and driving laws and stiffer penalties thereof. I agree that at issue here would be more alcohol available to the under 18 crowd, going as low as middle school and even elem school kids when the age is lowered since the chances are greater that an 18 year old high school will buy for younger students whereas the odds of a 21 year old buying for a 12 year old is far lower. Perhaps permitting drinking for 18 year olds but not the purchase of alcohol other than at place of repast would be the a partial solution. No closed bottle, bulk sales, say. I’m just throwing this out without a whole lot of thought.</p>
<p>As far as putting lives in danger, anytime you get behind the wheel, there is that risk. I am at the point in my life where I know that I could cause an accident. Even without drinking. The alcohol or any substance that muddles your thought processes and slows your reflexes will increase the risk further. So yes, I do support DUI laws, and I’ve been outraged at seeing those with multiple offences still wreaking havoc. It galls me that some of these guys walk because they know the system and won’t cooperate with the officer, refuse take the breathalyzer, insist on an attorney immediately, and end up a number of time with dropped charges because the DA knows he likely won’t win on these cases. The first time offender, like the OP’s son, generally cooperates fully, and GIVES the case to the police and DA who then throw the book at the kids, and now in NC, reducing the charges is made more difficult, and the judge can’t do anything if the charge is as the DA has it. Talk about self incrimination! </p>
<p>But, yes, the OP son’s did statistically put his life, his passenger’s and others on the road at increased risk by drinking and driving, drinking as much as he did, speeding and having some thoughts in mind that probably were distracting him from the driving as well. I don’t think there is any dispute of those facts.</p>
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<p>That’s really the law in Florida? You will go to jail for this immediately? Or is there some zero-tolerance, minimum sentencing law so that you can try to take it to court but there is a mandatory jail sentence if you lose? Or might you get a citation, that is much like a ticket? I don’t live there, so I’m really asking to make sure I understand you. I don’t understand how mandatory jail can coincide with the Spring Break bacchanalia.</p>