<p>Nobody is surmising anything. I’m glad you had him evaluated. Just the act of getting evaluated makes a kid think differently about how and why they are drinking. So, good.</p>
<p>Again, I think you are a really good example of how to handle this as a parent. Completely supportive and yet not minimizing the seriousness, at all. It’s not an easy balance to strike and, even though this is probably excruciating right now, it will work itself out over time.</p>
<p>take care of yourself.</p>
<p>I agree: you are doing a good job. </p>
<p>I also agree that the business about drinking after track meets REALLY needs to be addressed.</p>
<p>I have been dealing with this sort of stuff for 15 years. I’ve had a bird’s eye view of this at a number of schools, private, Catholic, public of various districts and states, and I can tell you that it’s the same old stuff each year. The year after my son got into trouble, and so did a number of kids that year on alcohol, substance abuse, legal issues, the same thing happened despite renewed efforts, money spent on organizations to talk to the kids, more monitoring of the proms, etc. And this is a small school that could and did really focus on the problem. Nope. When you have a bunch of smart kids with their hormones riding high, feeling stupid and invincible, they are going to take the risks. I’ve watched that school now for 10 years,and they still average the same number of kids CAUGHT, and I say caught because I have no idea what the numbers are of those involved, each year in substance abuse issues. They’ve gotten absolutely NOWHERE. Nothing they did worked. </p>
<p>The same with our public schools and the ones I’ve known. In fact, there was quite the tragedy at a former public school, involving alcohol, hormones, peer pressure, risk…and driving. Still reeling over the news. They didn’t get anywhere either. </p>
<p>I am at the point with my kids, where they don’t get to drive to the prom and they don’t ride with friends. That has always been the case, anyways here, so I did not have to intervene, but at this point, no one gets to drive to these things. Around here, the kids pool funds to get a limo and that is all part of the hype, and that’s fine with me. No one driving. </p>
<p>At the last prom that my one son attended, it was like a frigging armed camp, the way the school handled it. They basically frisked and searched each kid going into the banquet hall/club where the prom was held, and there were police, security guards, school personnel and volunteer parents as well as the employees of the venue making sure that there was no substance abuse. Two kids got into trouble after the fact when the word came out that there was still alcohol there, and my son, the drinking was rampant. Apparently someone hid a stash at the place where the prom was held, well before the kids arrived, and another stash was hidden at the after prom venue. It’s like trying to keep contraband out of jail, I do support the efforts, but do not count on them. Your kid goes to a prom or any of these sort of events, you can count on there being stuff happening.</p>
<p>I went on a rampage to get the stuff away form my kids and the kids around them, and barely made a dent. To this day, my kids resent my efforts. As far as they are concerned, it cost them in friendships, experiences that they would prefer even with the risks involved, and they will tell me that straight up. My son still hurts from the debacle of a party that got ruined because invitees brought contraband, that I discovered and called parents and kids got sent home and left. My kid just didn’t get any invites thereafter even from friends he knew 10 years before whose parents I well knew and they refused to come over here because I am like a hound dog on a hunt about drugs and alcohol. And yes, it is socially costing my high schooler and college kid right now.</p>
<p>A problem in all of this, is that a lot of parents privately do not support these efforts. Many of them even provide the alcohol to the kids They think the rules are stupid and feel all of this is a rite of passage and are willing to play this lottery. They truly do not think their kids and others will get hurt; they are fully willing to take those chances, and they deeply resent the police, schools, and other parents who are trying to stomp all of this out. And frankly, many times your own kids don’t support you</p>
<p>The sick thing is that these kids, who will be acting and looking all contrite for these MADD and SADD and other events, will be laughing and drinking it up with toast to their own dead, maimed, jailed, caught peers later on. Yeah, I found a video of this. Folks you think who support you will turn on you with fangs if there is any threat to their kids in terms of school actions. Yeah, that 's all they end up caring about is what the schools will think… Too many people truly don’t care, They think it’s cute, wink, wink, joke about it, it makes a great cocktail story later, and that’s that. Of course THEIR kid is mature enough to handle all of this. </p>
<p>As the not-so-great-in-my-book (but I don’t hold that against him when it comes to this quote), Mike Tyson, said, “everyone has a plan until they (sic) get hit”. And that’s exactly the case with all of this. The parents, kids, communities do not really support wiping out these things as they are so strongly entrenched in our culture, until they get hit. Then you have the walking wounded zombie parents, the ones who suffer the brunt of those who fly in the face of these rules and make up the statistics of those who got caught and truly hurt. And, you know what? Many of them still won’t lower the boom on the kids they have left. </p>
<p>I have a friend whose son was drinking underage at college, and she told me she bought his beer for him at a visit. She felt the rules were stupid and she helped him break them. That’s with a kid who did get hit and hurt by a drunk driver. My hand fly up in the air when I hear about this.</p>
<p>So that is the hard reality of all of this. For most parents, kids, this is a gauntlet that one goes through when unlucky enough to get caught. As far as the OP’s school is concerned, the same things have happened year in and out, with some years no one getting caught, and they cross their fingers that no wide spread catching occurs that makes for news and community meetings and need for some real work to be done, until the heat is off. So your kid, is the Judas goat, and you and he, and those involved will get flogged to the chorus of tsk, tsks, and what a shame, and how stupid,so that everyone can see that the school and other parents are on board with all of this. The courts and attorneys will get their money, as livings are made on idiots like your son (and I have sons who fall in this group too) and what this will cost you. And you, as a parent, just hope that It doesn’t happen again, at least the caught part, and you pray, even if you are an atheist , you pray that no deaths, maimings, felonies occur from future such stupidities, because deep down inside we all know that they are going to happen again. I don’t believe for one instant your son, and those all involved are going to abstain when this is all over. They may still drive after a few. The chances of getting caught are really too low. </p>
<p>I have a brother who knows this system too well as he spent a stint of time earning his living defending those kids whose parents had the money to keep them from the worst consequences of doing stupid things. He supported more vigilant police action, stiffer penalties, very avidly as it meant more money in his pockets. And he had no compunction handing the keys over to his Mercedes, to one kid who has had a lot of DMV related problems and whose license was likely not valid. My bro has no compunction telling me what he thinks, and he said right out, the risk doesn’t bother him a iota. And he KNOWS this scene better than most people, and knows how I feel about it. </p>
<p>So when your kid gets caught in something like this, you are truly between the frying pan and the fire. Basically, you want the kid to beat the rap, and so you have to do the frying pan dance. At the same time, you are scared to death that there might be a real problem, but as you go through counseling and all of the steps, most of the time, the kids is just plain stupid and unlucky, and the two streaks came together at the wrong time when he got caught. The chances were probably very good that he could have gotten away with his plans that night and it would have been a trophy night to discuss over drinks for the rest of his life, instead of this gauntlet that he and you are now undergoing. But, yes, it also could have been his funeral or someone’ elses, or someone terribly injured. </p>
<p>I can go on for a long time about this. But really, I have no solutions, other than a very good lawyer who is used to dealing with this will probably get charges reduced. If you can do the research, you can find out exactly what the stats are in these types of cases and how they are resolved in your area. I did, and the story was pretty much the way my bro told me. Lots’ of lawyers’, treatment centers’, counselors’, courts’ accounts got lined by parental frantic writing of checks. A lot of parents feeling sick, upset, depressed, discouraged. And so it goes for another year. Your kid drew the losing ticket for the Drinking Games this year.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, no words. Can I offer you a virtual hug?</p>
<p>OP- I assume that the suspension will end up on his transcripts regardless of the outcome of the charges. My point being that colleges will know that something happened and some will care and ask more questions and some won’t . While college is not your first priority, I would recommend having your son apply to more than 1 “safety” school just in case.</p>
<p>The first thing I would like to say is you are handling all of this very well. Kudos to you. The second thing - and it sounds like you are already there - is people make mistakes. It happens. Learn from it, grow, and get ready for your next mistake.</p>
<p>I say that because we have had a lot of tragedy with teen suicide in our small community lately. Sometimes, these kids think that they are in so much trouble, they take that way out.</p>
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I wanted to echo this point. I don’t know if the drinking laws are too harsh, or not harsh enough, but I do know that for every kid who is arrested for DUI, there are many more who didn’t get pulled over who were just as drunk, and many, many more who were just as drunk or drunker but didn’t drive. Around here, many families take steps not just to prevent drinking, but also to prevent drunk driving even if the kids do drink–like hiring buses or limos, having all-night after-parties, etc. Whether this is being realistic, or condining underage drinking, is a valid question.</p>
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I’ve taken kind of a diametrical approach. When S wants to go to parties where I suspect there might be drinking (i.e. any of them) I say “I’ll drive you there. I’ll pick you up.” After one of them he said his friends though I was a pretty cool mom. I’m hardly a cool mom, just not a mom who is interested in getting a 3 am phone call from the cops. Then I wonder if those other kids had to make their way home on their own, despite whatever state of inebriation they might be in, because they didn’t think they could call their parents. Or didn’t want to deal with the backlash.</p>
<p>Not sure cpt’s erradicate stance is the way to go - in expecting it to actually work thus spending endless amounts of energy on it. European countries seem to have a better way of handling this issue - all the way around.</p>
<p>I do think OP and son are handling this head on and very well.</p>
<p>Northern European countries have much, much worse teen drinking rates, teen bingeing, teen overdoses, higher rates of alcoholism, higher rates of cirrhosis, higher rates of drinking-linked heart disease, and higher death rates from alcohol. In Britain, the government has essentially declared a teen drinking emergency.</p>
<p>They do have ONE way of handling the issue better - virtually no cars for teens.</p>
<p><a href=“Uk's teenage girls are biggest binge drinkers in Europe | Daily Mail Online”>Uk's teenage girls are biggest binge drinkers in Europe | Daily Mail Online;
<a href=“http://www.espad.org/Uploads/ESPAD_reports/2011/Extended_EMCDDA_2011_ESPAD_Summary_EN.pdf[/url]”>http://www.espad.org/Uploads/ESPAD_reports/2011/Extended_EMCDDA_2011_ESPAD_Summary_EN.pdf</a></p>
<p>Sylvan, I drove my kids to these venues, and got a call when my son left the party to go elsewhere. Yeah, they do this. They also lie. Many 3AM calls come from police stations no where near where the kids should have been and after an assurance they are staying the night and a parent backing it up. They sneak out. </p>
<p>As for how the Europeans handle this, well, I was raised in Europe, and my SIL is European, and we spend a lot of time in both cultures. My SIL’s niece and nephews who span roughly the same ages as my kids have not been trouble free either. Alcohol is a terrible problem over there. I don’t have the stats, but Mini can give them to you ,as he works in that field. It’s a myth that the early drinking there stems the most severe problems.</p>
<p>What is virtually eliminated there is driving. Fewer European teenagers drive. A lot of families are single car, and you can’t get a license until you are 18 anyways. More people use the mass transit. They also don’t have a lot of the prom and party type traditions in their schools, particularly not their colleges, where more students commute even to their top schools. This sleep away college thing isn’t in the picture most of the time. But you don’t have kids driving cars around.</p>
<p>Here, it’s a huge problem. As I’ve stated before, even if you don’t let your kid have a license, don’t give him access to your car, some damn fool will, and, yes, I mean some good kid, responsible kid, kid who has never before agiven their parents trouble, kid that parents brag about so confident they are that their kid would not do anything stupid will let a classmate with no license, suspended license, have been in deep doo doo and they know it, drive their car. In the last 15 years, I’ve seen sooo many of such parents have to eat crow, and I don’t feed it to them, even when I can. And my own kids, some of them have been stupid enough to let others driver their cars EVEN KNOWING WHAT THEY DO and what I tell them. It’s is maddening to me. I feel like Cassandra of the Greek myths. </p>
<p>A lot of times, the kids will not call their parents when things are not going well, when they always have before. I had some young people, not kids, come to the house, and their conditions were such that I did not think they should be driving. They either brought their own or drank before they came here. They swore they were calling someone else, after i tricked them out of the car keys, and yes, i nearly called the police. They did get a friend come, and you know what, their friends took their car, and then turned it over to them as soon as they could. The whole charade was to get over on the old witch. But, there is a point where, you have to draw the line and it’s up to them. I’m sheerly CYA on this stuff now except for minors,</p>
<p>The thing is, most of the time, the vast majority of the time, nothing happens and no one is the wiser. If you snoop, like I do, and I have a very good nose for snooping, anyone will tell you this, it is amazing what one will find. Yes, kids take a lot of risks a lot of the time, and you cannot trust a lot of them. Even the ones who seem to be telling you everything, including the bad stuff, because that still doesn’t mean it’s all out there. Yeah, I’ve heard that one too. Just because your kid tells you about the bad stuff he did on a given day, doesn’t mean he’s sharing it all with you. It’s the one roach theory, as far as I am concerned, and you’ve just found the one roach.</p>
<p>I know I sound crazy, but I am telling you, that trying to keep a lid on this sort of thing is like sitting on a frigging volcano. </p>
<p>Taking the cars out of the picture would really help, but even if you do with driving, there are always cars and drivers at hand. My neighbor just had a problem with her DDs. Not a big one because they were just passengers in the car, a car filled with liquor that got into a car accident on the way to a party. Most of those there were underage, nothing could be proven, but my neighbor is no fool. What do you think the liquor was for? What the heck were they doing in that car when they were dropped off at someone else’s house? Oh, yes, there was a hot time in that house that night. But no one was hurt, no one arrested, they are all college aged…but this just basically laid wide open what the situation is.</p>
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<p>Seems that having a situation with harsh laws that are socially acceptable to disobey and easy to disobey without getting caught (e.g. regarding recreational drug use, including alcohol) is worse than leniency (so there would not be the temptation to do something more dangerous like DUI to conceal the disobedience of the alcohol law) or harsh laws with strict enforcement and social disapproval (so there would not be disobedience of the alcohol law in the first place).</p>
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<p>Story from S. In his third year at college, he moved to an off campus apartment with 4 roommates. He was 19 and some roommates turned 20. He told me his roommate’s dad came to visit right after they moved in and bought them a case of beer.</p>
<p>This has been such a helpful, thought-provoking, and timely thread. Another big thank you to NCDad for openly sharing his experience. I’ve been coming back to read each and every word that every poster is writing.</p>
<p>NCDad, it sounds like you’re dealing with this as well as you possibly could be, and your son is clearly very fortunate to have you. Hopefully he does realize just how lucky he is that no one got injured.</p>
<p>My son sounds much like the OP’s son, so I shared this story with him and talked about the dangers of driving while under ANY influence, how he should always feel okay about calling us at any hour, the need for friends to look out for each other and to help keep each other safe, etc. I got lots of mmm hmmm’s, but he did seem interested in OP’s son’s situation, so hopefully he was absorbing what I was saying.</p>
<p>It’s scary how as parents, we can be so taken by surprise. S recently had his own experience with the police, and it left us in a state of astonishment. A group of HS seniors were having some sort of get-together (that seems to have fallen short of an actual party) at one of their houses and the police ended up going there because of cars being parked on the wrong side of the road. Bizarreness ensued when the police decided they wanted to see what was going on in the house, and a close (quiet, bright, community service minded, trust-worthy) friend of S’s ended up being tased by the police, apparently four times - one initial tase that brought him to the ground and then three more times when he was on the ground. It happened outside and S was the only (non-police) witness. When S ran over to his friend to see if he was okay, he got into trouble with the police for getting involved. Friend ended up getting arrested for (I believe) disorderly conduct and obstruction of justice, other kids had to go over to his house in the middle of the night to wake up his parents to go to the police station, etc. Family might sue the police department for use of excessive force, and as a witness, S has already talked to their lawyer about the case. The police took down all of the kids’ names, but strangely, they didn’t contact the parents. Only one of the other kids, the one whose house it was, was brought down to the station. The rest were told to disperse.</p>
<p>And as much as we’ve always encouraged open communication in our house, S did not offer any of this information to us on his own. Husband heard kids at the baseball field talking about what had happened to friend. When I asked S about it, that’s when we found out about his own level of involvement. The whole scenario is still difficult to process.</p>
<p>Given OP’s son’s experience, S’s recent experience, and all of the other stories that have been shared, it really does seem like these things happen more than I’d like to believe. As parents, I guess we keep talking and hope our kids are processing at least some of what we’re saying. </p>
<p>(Of course, then I remember that I got caught with speed in high school and was given the opportunity to go home and tell my mother about it before the principal talked to her about it. That was an interesting evening, especially for my mom I’m sure. So then I question how any of this surprises me at all, but alas, it still does.)</p>
<p>cptofthehouse and I go way back on CC, and we are both in the “snooping” camp. Yes, we violated the privacy of our children! I, too, found out incredible things by snooping- starting back in the 7th grade with relatively minor things (very late night phone calls and instant messaging) when the other parents insisted their household rule was “no phone or internet after 9pm”. Um, yeah. Fast forward to high school/boarding school. At one of my son’s schools (not his graduation school) the kids were stealing alcohol from faculty apartments. I knew this. The school did not and would not accept that it was happening. These were top students and athletes- many destined for college recruitment and academic scholarships.</p>
<p>I’m shocked–shocked!–to hear that a person in his third year of college would be drinking beer! I think we live in such a fantasy world about underage drinking. It’s my own opinion that the current drinking age is counterproductive, and should be replaced by something progressive, as we do with driver’s licenses. It’s one thing to drop the hammer on high school students, but for people who are supposed to be “adults” for most other purposes, it’s just not effective.</p>
<p>The thing that really gets to me is the hullabaloo made over all of this when a catastrophe which is statistically inevitable happens. </p>
<p>I don’t know the answers to this, and I’ve been seeking some, very hard. Anyone have suggestions, I am open to them. I’ve probably tried them, am trying them. These kids, and I am talking about most kids, I can’t begin to tell you who I have seen or know is doing what, will lie, cheat and steal for a night of wicked adventure and risk. It’s part of what gives them some joy. And yes, I took some risks and made my share of trouble in my younger days too, so it’s not as though I don’t understand. Some of these kids, though, are just asking for the trouble as they forget they are taking calculated risks as they are not calculating them, just doing, and if the parents don’t have the time and money to get them out of the trouble when it happens, it can go very badly. Creating a whole underclass that way.</p>
<p>Yes, the law, the police the damages that the system puts on the kids and folks that get caught have a toll too. OP is feeling this very keenly. Let me tell you, I have a brother who was an officer in the military, and he recruited for a period of time. He was staggered by the number of young people, virtually all of them, that have some kind of criminal record or issue that has to be stetted before they can enlist in the armed forces. And many of them had records doing things that many young people had done many times, but instead of it all going to court, had the things taken care of with a warning. These days, it’s rare to find a young person without some problem on record. </p>
<p>So things are changing in that regard. Are we having healthier adults as a result, more self sufficient, less selfish, more aware of others’ needs and able to not only care for themselves but a little for others who need from all of this? Are we making a dent in deaths from drugs, alcohol, car wrecks among young people? Are we cutting down on those with emotional problems, addictions and life style related diseases and problems? i don’t have the stats. I sure hope so. Because, the part of these consequences in terms of the way things work with teens and young adults sure has me rattled. I hope it’s worth it.</p>
<p>There is a difference between understanding the reality that the age 21 law about drinking is not being obeyed and being a parent and adult BUYING, PROVIDING the beer or other alcohol. That parent was taking a risk, in doing this, a small one but what could be a life changer. If some kids drinking that beer, and throw in some other chasers, went out drinking and had a catastrophic accident, he would join the ranks of the Wrong Way Taconic Parkway mom only he 'd be alive to feel the skinning. There would be little public sympathy for him. In his case, it was not the beer that was harmful in what he provided, but the attitude.</p>
<p>As much as I disagree with the age 21 drinking rules, they have affected the death rates. That the rule exists means that SOME young people do obey those rules, and even more are careful when they break it, understanding that there are some adverse ramifications. There are those who have enough common sense to understand that they cannot risk breaking certain rules, and so when they do, they are very careful. Then you get some dumbass parent who makes it all look so cavalier and that it’s no big deal. Yeah, just what we need. </p>
<p>Can’t do anything when they get the beer or booze or drugs themselves, but to provide it to them? What lunacy, And yes, that is what is out there. </p>
<p>The police can be vicious with young people. I’ve sadly had to tell my kids that they are not on their side and not to be trusted. We had a direct situation where an officer out and out lied. Had to get the video tape and cost us a fortune. We would have never known, except my son was insistent and the officer’s partner would not back up his own partner We found the video footage after much trouble. So that was one issue right there. Had others too, where the police were not truthful in their stories, including a million dollar law suit that our insurance company would have had to settle except we hired a private detective and got proof. Two major instances where a police officer committed major fraud. And we don’t have much dealing with the police. More than we want, but really not a lot, and only through our young adult children.</p>
<p>I wasn’t talking about rates of alcohol consumtion (cause I have no clue) but they don’t have the drunk driving issue over there like we do here - which was the topic of the thread. As I understand, ANY AGE getting a DUI over there is REALLY SERIOUS and people just don’t drive drunk.</p>
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<p>I doubt that too many people are shocked that there are a lot of drinking in college. We know that our son drinks. We are moderate and occasional drinkers. I did wild things when I was a teenager too. But as parents we have to be responsible and good models for our kids. Openly and happily buying/providing alcohol to minors is something I would never ever do as a parent.</p>
<p>As cptofthehouse pointed out, don’t be surprised that it is the parents that are providing the alcohol that your kids are drinking.</p>