Soph....where do we begin?????

Parents Forum
1

<p>Wow. There is a lot of info on this site. I have tried to read as mush I could. Some is down right disgusting (the process) and some is very uplifting (these kids are the best and the brightest).</p>

<p>In 8th grade my son was part of a Math-Counts team that took 2nd in Colorado. The conversations began… between the kids. Where are you going the college and I heard for the first time MIT, Harvard and Yale, they earned the right to start dreaming. I guess my view of what was possible, was a bit clouded by my more humble accomplishments.</p>

<p>Now my son is a 14/15yo soph, Pre-IB program, 3.85 GPA, SAT Eval 800M and 650V (will test Jan05). This year AP US Hist, Trig/PreCalc, Physics, Chem, French 3, Eng, Debate. He took Philosophy 121 at local CC (A) during the summer. 8 yrs piano (competitive). Also, I need to say he and his mom came to the states Jan 2001 from Russia. ESL has been a challenge.</p>

<p>I started looking at what was required, for Elite schools, and now I’m beginning to believe. That being true, I have work to do as a father. I have a million questions, but will start with the short list. Our GC’s are not responsive, to busy with Juniors/Seniors, come back in the spring.</p>

<p>1) Best book(s) for support, I need
2) Should we find a consultant
3) What is an ideal resume look like
4) What is a hook, examples
5) Where to find research opportunities
6) What to do with his next summer
7) Does Russian help, hurt or no effect</p>

<p>I feel like I am two years behind the curve. Any help would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

2

<p>RMB - just to reassure you: You're not too late. The usual 'start early' information has to do with the class selection so that the kid is ready and taking the most challenging possible by the time they reach Jr/Sr classes. IB and AP are certainly enough.<br>
I can't answer most questions but it seems most people think the consultants are a waste of money. If you work at it you can research much of the information here or elsewhere on line.<br>
A hook is something that the college wants. Examples are: a basoon player, an URM (under represented minority), a student who has lived and gone to school overseas, an award winner in academics, a soccer player, etc.<br>
As a 14/15 year old, let your child have fun in the summer. Maybe that means going to an academic camp, doing a sport. Maybe it just means hanging out with friends and being a kid. If you can do it, take your kid to some colleges/universities to see what different options 'feel' like. This is a good time to find out if he likes small, large, rural, urban, sporty, intense academic, etc. Odds are that he may change his mind anyway by the time Sr year arrives but at least he will be able to compare. Find out what your child is passionate about and support it.
Don't get stuck on the elite schools. Elite may or may not be the best place for your child. </p>

<p>Good luck and visit here often with questions.</p>

3

<p>My advice is to take several days (you can break it up so you don't overdose) and read everything here. Ok, that's a bit ambitious, but by selectively choosing threads, both here and on the old forum (<a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/&lt;/a&gt;), you'll have a good starting point. You'll also get great advice here if you have specific questions. </p>

<p>May I ask why your son is taking the SAT in sophomore year? He'll have to take the new one for college admissions. I also have a sophomore and he's waiting till next fall.</p>

4

<p>This is so scary. I think I'd be angry, not grateful if my parents were this obsessed.</p>

5

<p>Some books that I think are pretty good for just getting some general ideas are:</p>

<p>Princeton Review's Best 351(?) colleges
The Fiske Guide to Colleges
Books by Loren Pope (ie. Colleges that Change Lives)
One or more of A is for Admissions, Admissions Confidential, or the Gatekeepers.</p>

<p>Outwestmom is SO ABSOLUTELY right about not getting stuck on the so-called elite schools. It's all about which college will be the best fit for you.</p>

6

<p>I would add that being Russian, and speaking two languages would be an advantage in the admissions process. Schools like diversity, and they are interested in a having kids from lots of different backgrounds. Your son will be accepted to many fine universities and will have lots of opportunities. Don't get too hung up on the ivies... lots of good schools out there. I found several books very informative, especially one called "How to Get into the Top Colleges" by Montauk. (published 2000 by Prentice Hall. It may be a little dated about online apps etc, unless it has been reissued in an updated version.)</p>

7

<p>D, CC is a wonderful resource. As you can see, many people look at the posts--and never post. Most CC parents do not post their names or email addresses in order to protect their child's privacy. If your S does get into HYP/MIT, he wouldn't want to be teased about his life history--as posted on CC by his well-meaning Dad.</p>

<p>Ask the mods if you can edit your full name and email details out of the post?</p>

<p>I like:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Princeton Review's 'Best 351 Colleges' because the descriptions of the student body are brutally honest. Lots of CC parents like the Fiske Guide. </p></li>
<li><p>CC is a better consultant and it's free! But if you have spare cash --and I think a good consultant charges upwards of $5000--it's a lovely service.</p></li>
<li><p>An ideal resume would be:</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Your S is an URM (underrepresented minority) and the likely heir to a Fortune 500 company with perfect SAT/SAt II scores. He volunteers in Soweto every summer, is ranked first in his class, plays nine instruments--could go to Juilliard but doesn't want to--is the star quarterback and Captain of his nationally ranked hs football team as well as the best student his high school has seen in fifty years. Your S is tall, handsome, popular and is the most appreciative, wonderful, Messiah-like teenage boy in a thousand-mile radius.</p>

<p>Haha. The perfect resume for you S is one that highlights his best qualities.
Keep in mind Blossom's advice to "love the kid you have--not the one you wish you had."</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Hook. American all-star athlete is a 'Hook'. Money-giving potential is a hook. SErious drama or music talent is a hook. There are heaps of hooks.</p></li>
<li><p>Waht kind of research possiblities? That might be asked in a seperate thread...</p></li>
<li><p>what does he want to do next summer? What are his main interests or passions? That's possibly a third thread to start--ie, 'What are the Best Summer Math Camps??'</p></li>
<li><p>Russian helps.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck!</p>

8

<p>Russian will certainly help, as your son will be bilingual.<br>
Sophomore year is not too early to start thinking about preparing for college, especially if you are not familiar with the system. Your son, however, seems on the right track. In terms of ECs, his piano is an advantage.<br>
Is your son still involved in math competitions such as AMC/AIME? That, too, would be an impressive EC. He really needs only a couple in which he is involved consistently and about which he is passionate, rather than a whole laundry list of activities.</p>

<p>Summer camp and enrichment programs. It really depends on what your son enjoys most. There's value in not pursuing academics during summer, perhaps finding a summer job instead, or taking up a sports, or traveling. But if he thinks he would enjoy academic camps, hoagiesgifted.org has a list. For math, there's the Ross Program at Ohio State, PROMYS at Boston University and Canada/USA Mathcamp (location changes from year to year). You can google each of them to get more details. </p>

<p>You could also begin slowly to visit a variety of schools for your son to develop an idea of what kind of college he would prefer in terms of geography (East Coast, Midwest, West Coast, etc...) location (city, small town, suburb, rural), size (large, medium, small Liberal ARts College), type (LAC or more technical), campus culture (heavy on sports, lots of frats, or not), etc... Some of the information can be gleaned by looking at college websites, but a few visits are very worthwhile to get more of a feel. If you can, make use of your son's school vacations to visit as they are not very likely to coincide with college breaks. This would allow him to see the colleges when students are around.</p>

<p>Consider your finances. Some colleges give merit money, others provide only need-based aid, but how much aid they provide is based on THEIR idea of what you need, not yours. There are some websites that have financial calculators. If you will depend on aid, you may want to consider schools that provide generous merit aid rather than HYPMS, which do not.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

9

<p>I agree with everything listed above --- especially the part about reading this site and asking lots of questions. Let me just add that it's important not to get "locked in" to a particular idea of a school too early. I had all sorts of ideas when my daughter was in 9th and 10th grade about what schools I thought she would like and which schools would be "just perfect" for her. Now that she's a junior, I'm finding that she has a different set of ideas and we also have a very different set of information about which range of schools she has a realistic shot at. So, just get information about a wide range of schools at this point - don't focus on any particular type of school or any particular school even. Things are bound to change.</p>

<p>That doesn't mean it's too early to start looking at various information sources - reading web sites, reading guidebooks, etc. Perhaps even one or two college visits. But until your son has his sophomore year grades in hand and a clear idea of what his sats are likely to be (which he really won't until he takes the PSATs in junior year), it's kind of hard to start looking at schools. I think it can also do more harm than good - if you "sell" your son on schools that are too selective or too easy for him too early in the process, it can lead to challenges later on. </p>

<p>Finally, in my experience, tenth graders really aren't into the process at this point. It has only been in the past two months or so that my daughter has really become pro-active and excited about looking at colleges and figuring out what she wants. It really seemed like it wasn't until all of her friends started doing the same that it became real to her. But it did help for us to have talked quite a bit about what she liked and didn't like about her high school, and what she hoped to have in her college experience.</p>

10

<p>I can't imagine what a consultant could do for you that the fine people here can't. The collective experience here is amazing. Libraries are, too. You'll be fine, really. Relax. There's plenty of time, and your son is well prepared considering the time of life he's gotten to.</p>

11

<p>Hi, a lot of MATHCOUNTS alumni hang out on the Art of Problem Solving Web site, which is full of challenging math problems at a variety of levels. If your son likes that kind of thing, he can keep up with many of the people he will be going to school with later there. There is a pretty well defined set of expected activities for teenagers planning to go to the top colleges to study math, and one of those activities, of course, is working on lots of math problems for fun.</p>

12

<p>Thank you all for such a kind response… </p>

<p>Two common threads through many of the responses were…. my dream or his and over-involvement by parent. I will give that some serious thought. My fear is that a decision will be may now, that closes a door two years from now.</p>

<p>I agree that very much of this can wait another year. No problem. But, I also see this issue of EC's that is built from his freshman year. In many ways he has been lucky so far. He was invited to do Math-Counts, invited to apply to IB, invited to AP US History and chose Physics because he loves it. Chose to take CC class because he was to young to work and he loves philosophy. Go figure that a 14yo could actually go to CC. We have actually planed very little of this. I am freighted we will miss something. </p>

<p>zantedeschia
I will consider your comments carefully. I will. Please understand he is 14 and you are 18. </p>

<p>Over30
Question, Why SAT this year as a soph. Actual 1st thinking was to show that he could post an 800M score as a soph. 2nd was to post a V score before the change to the new SAT. As an ESL kid verbal is a challenge. His first verbal was 560 and now 650. The new SAT looks much more grammar and writing. The old looks much more vocab. I can’t help him much with grammar, but I can vocab. His reading is ok.</p>

<p>I posed this question and a couple of others to CollegeConfidential.Com “Ask the Dean”. The responder confirmed that it was a good idea. And verbal should still improve over time.</p>

<p>Marite
Question, What about math competitions such as AMC/AIME? I too found that to be a great question. His high school inherited the entire 8th grade team and other bright kids from other mid-schools. No teacher would support or sponsor a soph/frosh team. I asked twice and walked away.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for your input</p>

<p>Cheers… I asked for the edit you recommended… thank you</p>

13

<p>Tokenadult.... Thanks, I will pass it to him</p>

14

<p>RMB:</p>

<p>There are many who will disagree with me. However, I think it is dead wrong to target certain colleges in the 9th grade. IMO, this sets up an expectation that is unfair to the student and, ultimately, gets in the way of making a good college choice. For similar reasons, I am very wary of college "consultants".</p>

<p>We don't know where your son will find his best "fit" three years from now. We also don't know where he will have a realistic shot at admissions three years from now. Suppose you spend the next three years "pushing" a college with a 10% acceptance rate and he ends up with no prayer of getting in. Have you just set him up to be a "failure" in your eyes? His eyes? </p>

<p>In my opinion, the number one role of a parent in the college selection process is to guide it in a way that produces a "win-win" result. If my kid came home in the 9th grade talking about MIT, I would spend the next two years talking up U Colorado Boulder, GA Tech, and a very broad range of schools. I would NOT put any particular school or type of school on a pedestal. To the contrary, I would try to casually visit at least one example of each type of school and I would go out of my way to talk up the advantages of each type. For example, MIT has many advantages over U Colorado. However, U Colorado has JUST AS MANY advantages over MIT.</p>

<p>Your son came home talking about MIT, Harvard, and Yale. But, I would wager that he has NO idea what any of those schools are really like or whether he would even enjoy them. All he knows is the "prestige", which is very superficial. It's a parents' job, IMO, to nip that "trophy hunting" aspect in the bud so that the student has the freedom to make an informed choice when the time is right.</p>

15

<p>I completely agree. I think it is unrealistic to target one school, but usually kids do change their minds and it turns out ok. I've had my obssessions with each school...when I was in ninth grade I was set on Columbia and you couldn't convince me of anything else...and now, I don't even know if I will apply. The most important thing is to get them to do lots of research and go visit and really find out on their own, not from what other people say, what the parent promotes, what they have dreamed up as a freshman.</p>

16

<p>RMB -</p>

<p>I don't think it's too early to begin the process. The US has a huge element of choice when it comes to colleges. It may take a year or more to get used to the many elements that make up a college decision.</p>

<p>How does your son feel about taking the January SAT? I have looked at many college websites, and it seems that, as a current sophomore, he will have to take the new SAT unless he plans to graduate a year early. It may help him prepare for one of the important tests, the PSAT, which he will take next October. (PSAT determines which students are designated National Merit Scholars.) Taking an SAT this year will help him focus on the areas where he needs help, but the new SAT(taken in March or later) is more like the PSAT; writing is a major component of both.</p>

<p>Don't give up on the AMC/AIME tests. If your school doesn't offer them, keep pushing. Get some of the other math parents involved. He can also take the tests through another school - you should look into that for this year, at least. Also, look into the ARML teams - these are regional "All-Star" math teams that have a yearly competition. Ther coaches will be helpful in answering questions about talented math students. You can e-mail your regional ARML coordinator now and try to find an AMC testing spot for your son. <a href="http://www.arml.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.arml.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As for next summer, there are several good math and science programs for high school students. Looking at the various camps is a good project for Christmas vacation. Let your son's enthusiasm be your guide - not every teen is willing to spend weeks or months away from home doing math problems.</p>

<p>Another project for this year is to look at nearby schools in a casual way, by attending a concert or basketball game. Look at large, small and in-between schools in your area to get a feeling for what American colleges are like, and what would be best for your son.</p>

17

<p>I discovered this message board this time last year when my daughter was a sophomore. What an education it has been! </p>

<p>This is a great time to start identifying the interests of your son, long-term goals, etc. (just understand that they may change in the next two years) and to research colleges. Last summer, my daughter and I took a lengthy road trip to look at the colleges that interested her - that was a priceless experience on many levels. If possible, tour nearby colleges; it will help your son get a better idea of what he wants from a college experience. There is actually a US map that has colleges marked on it (Professor Pathfinder's, I think, available at Amazon), which helped us plan our route.</p>

<p>Also, does your son's school have a college resource room? My daughter's school has an excellent room filled with search books, prep books, videos, and catalogs. Hint: daughter is an office aide for the college counselor and is definitely getting to know her quite well.</p>

<p>You might also check to see if there will be a spring college fair in your area (check the nacac.com website). DEFINITELY plan to attend college fairs next fall. There have been some excellent threads here about attending fairs. </p>

<p>Good luck to you and your son - this can be quite a fascinating process!</p>

18

<p>The coach of the math team at a school attended by S's friend is essentially the dad. They just use the school as a convenient location. Since several members of the Mathcounts team are now at the high school, they could reform into a math club/math team, meeting on a regular basis and sending out for competition materials. As Midwesterner suggests, contact the regional ARML coordinator to find out what the requirements are for entering and administering competitions. If they like science, science teams are also a terrific EC. These attract kids who like to be a bit more hands-on.</p>

19

<p>It's not too early to plan--but it is too early to make final decisions, R. And it is naive to assume too much involvement. Your S will be a different character in a few years, more mature and more independent.</p>

<p>However, let me tell you what is happening for talented sophomores in elite secondary schools with heaps of resources and attentive GCs. (These schools are called 'prep' schools for a reason!):</p>

<p>They take the PSAT in sophomore and junior year. Sophomore year is a practice.</p>

<p>They are guided into more challenging classes and summer programs if they have special 'gifts'.</p>

<p>They are guided into EC volunteer work, often school sponsored.</p>

<p>They are urged to take the SAT II subject tests when they complete the highest level of the course; ie 9th and 10th grader might take the SAT II Biology, Math IIC (there is no calculus on the subject SAT IIs) or a language.</p>

<p>They are assigned sophisticated vocabulary workbooks (Worldy Wise etc, available from Amazon.com).</p>

<p>They use college level texts for science and history--readings which increase verbal skill. (BTW, your Ss verbal score might go up as his ability to read demanding texts matures).</p>

20

<p>RMB, Ah, the epiphany of realizing what a complex and frightening event the college selection and application process is. Take a deep breath and believe! You and your son are right on schedule. </p>

<p>1) Best book(s) for support, I need
Go to a book store and thumb through the section. Basically there are three general types: how to prepare yourself, how to select the right school(s) and how to write a knock out application . Don't worry about the application for now. Read about the different types of schools and what their expections are. Focusing on the top and most elite is a recipe for 3 years of insomnia. You and your son need to start researching less-selectives, safeties if you will. Once these are in the bag, you can relax and help your son go after HYPS (or AWS) or whatever his heart desires.</p>

<p>2) Should we find a consultant
Not at this point. See what your GC can offer. Most of us have felt that sting of indignation when we want to talk about Harvard and the GC proposes some small liberal arts college that we've never heard of. Well, a lot of our kids have ended up at wonderful schools that weren't on the radar screen when we started thinking about college. Talk to other parents. Read this board. Visit different types of schools.
Having said that I would recommend Dave Berry of CC for lucid, practical advice.
It's a difficult balance, wanting to involve your child in the process without hectoring or terrifying him/her. </p>

<p>3) What is an ideal resume look like
I think elite, selective colleges are all looking for smart, confident, interesting kids. Your son sounds as if he's well on his way toward all three. Think about how he can focus and enhance his interests.</p>

<p>4) What is a hook, examples
Being Russian, playing the piano are both good hooks. Winning a Russian piano competition (ala Van Cliburn) would be ideal. Just kidding, but the point is to focus and enhance.</p>

<p>5) Where to find research opportunities
Can't help you here.</p>

<p>6) What to do with his next summer
Something fun, something interesting. I'm greatly in favor of travel opportunities that tie into passions and offer the chance to improve language skills.</p>

<p>7) Does Russian help, hurt or no effect
Being bi-lingual is a big plus.</p>