This thread makes me think of the Pike who ended up in the hospital from butt-chugging cheap wine. There are some “only in a fraternity” stories out there.
I looked it up because I was interested - Brandeis sports clubs hold no tryouts and have open rosters eligible to any student.
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When I asked my son why he could not be part of the 70% who don’t join, he presented the following:
That 70% figure includes:
How is that figure misleading? 30% of the students at Syracuse are apparently in the Greek system.
BTW, it’s rather racist to say that Asian students “don’t join anything.” In the absence of data to the contrary, I would imagine that Asian students join the EC’s that interest them just like anyone else does.
In any case, if 70% are not Greek, then there are more than enough non-Greeks to hang out with, so problem solved.
Like I said, my alma mater has this as a policy.
Want to have a recognized organization on campus? You have to admit all comers. End of story.
No one is arguing that Brandeis can’t have that policy. It’s just that I’m still sure that there are some hurt feelings at Brandeis with people who want to be friends with other people and the second set of people aren’t interested.
There are some great colleges with no recognized fraternities: Williams, Georgetown, ND, Brandeis and Oberlin come to mind. So there are options for those who are offended by the presence of Greeks on campus.
I think some of us who are uncomfortable with the Greek system are uncomfortable with the questions it raises.
Is it okay to seek a circle of friends who are like you? How much “like you” is acceptable? Skin color? Dads played golf together? Temperament?
Is it okay to want to be in your comfort zone? Always or sometimes or never?
Does this system work to perpetuate social divides based on background? If so, is this a negative?
Should hiring preferences be influenced by connections? Are some connections more acceptable than others?
Does the intent in volunteering matter?
And many more.
“Sorry for the provocative headline but why would any parent pay for their kid to be in a fraternity?”
I paid because my son wanted to join one, and I thought it might enhance his social life at the university and help him have a better experience there. He could otherwise have been somewhat of a loner, I think. A student who is unhappy socially does not always do his best work, IMO.
He made it clear upfront that his fraternity was not into hazing, etc. It had the highest GPA of any frat on campus. The kids I met there were nice kids.
He’s glad he did it. I’m glad he did it too, and I’m glad I paid. I have no regrets about it.
As far as I know, they threw some parties, did some community service and intramural activities, and lived together in a house. Nothing negative about it has been brought to my attention.
All of those questions arise from greek organizations existing?
@soze now I’m intrigued. So your son is in a fraternity - are you disappointed that he has joined an exclusionary organization? What has his experience been with it, does he participate in other activities and hang out with others besides his fraternity? Are you just egalitarian by nature, or have your prior comments been colored by your son’s experience? Aside from reconciling your son’s experience with your comments, I’m also interested b/c my son is actually starting at Syracuse in the fall and it would be interesting to get a view into the greek life.
“I think some of us who are uncomfortable with the Greek system are uncomfortable with the questions it raises.
Is it okay to seek a circle of friends who are like you? How much “like you” is acceptable? Skin color? Dads played golf together? Temperament?”
This question keeps getting posed as if these are monolithic organizations that only accept clones. As I said, I became friends with a WIDER range of girls through my house than if I had been left to my own devices. I befriended girls in majors I wouldn’t have come into contact with otherwise.
“Should hiring preferences be influenced by connections? Are some connections more acceptable than others?”
Commonalities get people an extra look. What’s the difference between the USC, Notre Dame, Wellesley, etc strong alum networks and Greek networks? My business partner is a USC grad. She favors USC grads. So? She’s entitled to do so.
Yes, I am.
He does, but he admits that he joined primarily because (according to him) the majority of social life at his school revolves around fraternities. His experience was positive. He picked the frat he wanted to join, and they took him. My problem is that clearly doesn’t apply to all the kids.
I am. And that’s what drives my objections to the fraternity system. I actually have a very good friend who has a son who’s a year older than my son at the same school and this kid didn’t get into any frats (he’s a bit quiet and awkward but is a good kid). My son says he sees him at concerts and he’s always alone – this makes me a bit sad. I asked my son “why don’t you see if you can get him into your fraternity?” – my son’s reply “it doesn’t work that way.”
This is legitimate, as being a USC grad at least means that you possess some known academic qualities. Being a member of a particular fraternity simply means that when you were 18, a bunch of 20-year-olds thought you were someone they’d like to drink with.
Schools that aren’t necessarily academic powerhouses have alumni networks too, you know.
It is not at all about drinking. I rarely drank and rarely drink. But, please, go ahead and perpetuate stereotypes. Btw, Animal House is a hysterically funny movie, but it’s not a documentary.
“He picked the frat he wanted to join, and they took him. My problem is that clearly doesn’t apply to all the kids.”
Hmmm. He picked upfront? He knew he liked the brothers of ABC more than the brothers of XYZ? How can that be? People aren’t supposed to have preferences as to who they hang out with.
Btw, the worst way to rush is to decide upfront you want to be an ABC. That’s exclusionary to the perfectly fine young men of XYZ for him to decide upfront he doesn’t like them.
Nothing prevents your son from hanging out with your friend’s kid - but maybe they don’t have a lot in common. My good friend’s daughter went to the same school as my son - 2 years older - and I would have loved for them to hang, but it wasn’t to be. There were other legacy kids I knew and I tried to broker introductions - some of them hit it off and others didn’t. You can’t dictate or mandate that everyone be friends with everyone else.
And yes, “maybe you can get him into your fraternity” tells me you don’t get how it works.
He didn’t decide upfront. They have some elaborate process where you meet folks from all the different frats, etc.
Ah, as it should be. So after meeting all the guys from ABC and DEF and GHI and JKL and MNO and PQR, he decided that he liked the guys at ABC best. Isn’t that … well … .just life? How it is in any social situation where you meet a bunch of people and decide you like some better than others? The same thing happens in college dorms and cafeterias and grown-up workplaces and PTA’s etc.
Was he saying that the guys at DEF and GHI were inferior people that he should spit at as he walked by - or was he saying that the guys at DEF and GHI were perfectly nice guys but just not his type?
What’s the difference between how he was “selecting” them and how they “selected” him, conceptually?
My youngest son is in a fraternity. I’ll admit, I wasn’t crazy about the idea of fraternities. It was a friend’s death that changed my mind. Quite a few of my friend’s fraternity brothers attended, and spoke, at his funeral. The stories they shared were incredibly touching. They had remained friends for 30+ years. They went on yearly trips together. They loved each other. When my friend was sick, his brothers flew in from around the country to help him and his family. They were amazing. It was a beautiful and touching level of friendship.
BTW, Soze, I feel for the sadness of your friend’s son.
In any Greek system, there is always one smaller, struggling house - maybe there are only 20 members when the other houses have 100 members, etc. For all the talk about how sad it is for rushees, it’s also sad when those guys rush and guys like your son pass them by because they aren’t the “cool house”.
His case is not a good example for the problem that I have, in that he picked a fraternity that he liked and they took him, end of story.
What about the kids who decided that they wanted to join ABC and ABC rejected them?
ABC is a recognized organization by the university that uses university facilities, etc. What gives them the right to reject anybody who is good enough for the university?
You’re claiming that fraternity selection is purely a “mutual selection” process, which is pretty much the big canard that they all use. It’s about as much a mutual selection process as college admissions are, which is to say pretty much not at all.