Sorry for the provocative headline but why would any parent pay for their kid to be in a fraternity?

Parent Cafe
101

Should all entities within the Greek system be stigmatized with some of the profound negative narrative that surrounds many chapters–no. That said, to say there are not systemic problems deeply rooted in both their culture and history is to take naiveness to uncharted ground.

Here are some facts: for over the last 40 years, at least a death a year (in some years, multiple deaths), multiple sexual assaults and rapes annually, scoes of assaults and batteries, misogynistic displays annually, large property and casualty damage, and incredible racist incidents every year. Moreover, the Greek system from a risk management perspective (that is just a fancy way to say these are some potentially really dangerous situations) has become the sixth most volatile of insurance to obtain nationally (ahead of the transportation of toxic/nuclear waste). So much so, that the system cannot obtain insurance now through regular channels, but employs an insurance strategy commonly known as “self insurance”. In short, anything goes down in the house, they will automatically tack to the personal policies of the parents of said members…

102

@twoinanddone:
All the examples you give (sports teams, specific majors, music groups, etc.) require specific skills and talents. Fraternities use arbitrary social criteria established by a bunch of kids. It’s not the same, not even close.

103

I agree that is sad, if true, but it sounds like you don’t even know what his feelings are or if he actually tried to join and was rejected. Lots of people like to do things alone and don’t like parties; you seem to be making some uninformed assumptions about this young man.

I also find it hard to believe that there are no other organizations on Syracuse’s campus that hold social events. That would be very odd for a large university.

104

I do know. I’m friends with his dad. He went through the process and was not accepted by any fraternity.

105

I’m trying to wrap my mind around the culture that exists on a campus where someone who is not involved in a fraternity has (1) zero friends, (2) is always alone, (3) where anyone in a fraternity doesn’t associate with anyone outside of the fraternity, and (5) because of the prominence of fraternities there are zero activities in which he could take part in.

106

Did someone hit the BoolaHI replay button? :wink:

107

I agree, Niquii, and I’m sorry to say that if there is a young man who cannot make a single friend outside of the fraternity system then perhaps there was a non-arbitrary reason why he wasn’t invited to join one.

108

A quick look at the Syracuse U. webpage shows that there are 75 fraternal organizations on campus and that the IFC is a small subset of them. There are multicultural fraternities, fraternities organized around particular majors and other service organizations as part of the total. It sounds like this kid made a run at an IFC greek chapter and did not secure a bid but of course, we don’t know if he made any attempt to join any of the other worthy organizations.

At some point, kids have to be responsible for their own lack of social lives and find something for themselves to contribute. I’m sure Soze’s friend is feeling very bad for his boy but he should try to get him to join one of the other many worthwhile organizations at this very large university. I just don’t believe he has no other social options and Soze doesn’t know what really happened either.

109

“Sorry, if I wasn’t clear, but my S barely knows this kid. He’s the son of a friend of mine. I was just inquiring of my son if he ever ran into this kid, and his reply was that whenever he sees him, he’s alone. Apparently this kid was not admitted to any fraternities and that puts him on the outside-looking-in when it comes to social activities on campus.”

Your S could change that. He could invite the kid out.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t you say only 30% of your S’s campus was Greek? If so, how can that put him on the outside-looking-in? Do the other 70% just sit in their dorm rooms and do nothing? I don’t buy it.

110

So it’s not really that you object to fraternities. You object to not getting into fraternities.

111

Based on the experience of my two kids, both of whom attended colleges with Greek systems but were not interested in joining, many of the kids in the other 70% (or whatever it is at a particular school) spend much of their free time with little groups of friends, playing video games or watching movies in various people’s dorm rooms or apartments – and maybe attending a campus event from time to time. And they like it that way.

It’s quite different from Greek life and much more low-key, but it doesn’t involve spending all your free time alone, either.

112

Greek life doesn’t HAVE to be nonstop parties either. I rarely went to frat parties. I had a boyfriend already and I wasn’t interested in that scene. No one revoked my sorority card or anything. I went to formals and had a lot of fun there.

Plenty of the non-Greek kids at my college had FAR more of a social life than I ever did! Ha ha.

113

Hmmn, when was the last time you went on a Saturday night to Arizona State, Penn State, USC…I have, all in the last 5 years…utter mayhem.

114
  1. Syracuse has 9.1% international students, according to http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg06_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=130 .
  2. What would be the percentage of athletes at a school of Syracuse's size?
  3. That would rescale the 30% of the total to 30/75 = 40% if each class level were of equal size (which may not necessarily be true due to attrition out and transfer in not being equal for each class level).
  4. 99% of frosh as Syracuse live in the dorms according to http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg05_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=130 , indicating very few non-traditional and commuter students.
  5. About 4.5% of undergraduates are not full time students, according to http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg06_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=130 .

If we assume that 40% of non-frosh join fraternities and sororities, and we subtract 9.1%+1%+4.5%=14.6% for categories 1, 4, and 5 as non-joiners, that leaves 45% of non-frosh. We then have to subtract athletes from that number, but would that be a very big percentage? Even subtracting athletes, there should still be a substantial population of non-frosh not in fraternities and sororities, although it is entirely possible that fraternities and sororities make up the majority of eligible students outside those who do not join (categories 1, 4, and 5).

While such a fraternity and sorority presence may be on the large side, it is nowhere near the level that can be found at places like Dartmouth, Washington and Lee, DePauw, etc…

115

“Hmmn, when was the last time you went on a Saturday night to Arizona State, Penn State, USC…I have, all in the last 5 years…utter mayhem”

So if it’s utter mayhem, why would anyone want to participate in it? Wouldn’t it be a blessing to not “have” to participate in wild beer-soaked parties and instead go out for pizza and a movie with a small group of friends?

116

@boolaHI From what I understood from your post, you’ve been to every one of those campus each Saturday night and witnessed every fraternity and sorority with all of their members hosting a party?

Let’s all remember that Greek life consists of individuals and not every member is doing the same entire thing as their brother or sister.

117

"If we assume that 40% of non-frosh join fraternities and sororities, and we subtract 9.1%+1%+4.5%=14.6% for categories 1, 4, and 5 as non-joiners, that leaves 45% of non-frosh. We then have to subtract athletes from that number, but would that be a very big percentage? "

Oh, god, whatever, ucb, don’t play Sheldon Cooper. Whether it’s 25% or 30% or 35% or 40% isn’t the point at all.

118

@Niquii77 Yes. But the conversation is about the Greek System, not individuals. Like it or not, an institutional conflation is natural to occur. And to clarify, my being campus was not random as I serve on an advisory board for college athletics, as a former D1 athlete and college instructor. The times and day of the week were selected randomly to our respective schedules. But to be certain, to say we are all involved in benevolent volunteer activities and professional development, and not say, that a pronounced party atmosphere is also equally as prevalent, if not more, borders on pollyannaish and uninformed.

119

103-" but it sounds like you don't even know what his feelings are or if he actually tried to join and was rejected."

“I do know. I’m friends with his dad. He went through the process and was not accepted by any fraternity.”
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But you should find that a good thing, since you don’t think fraternities have any value. I think it is very rare not to be asked to be in any fraternity, and I bet he turned down some houses as not being right for him, and was then rejected by some houses who found him not a match for them. He gets to be picky but they don’t? At a school the size of Syracuse, if he’s sitting alone it is because he’s chosen not to join things. He wanted one thing, didn’t get it, chose to be a loner.

I’m very much of the belief that all kids should be invited to be part of the girl scout troop, the birthday party, the basketball team in third grade, but there comes a time when socially you have to adjust to groups you want to join and everyone doesn’t get a trophy for playing, and doesn’t get a social invitation just for breathing. Is it sad to see a kid hurting and excluded? Yes, but should everyone not get to have a group of friends because one kid just can’t fit in? If you’d posted that they didn’t even give this kid a chance at a fraternity, didn’t even let him go through rush, then I’d agree that they were just a bunch of meanies. They did give him a chance and just decided he didn’t fit in to the group. My kids have friends that are just strange or have special needs and while my kids will do something separate with these old friends (usually kids of my friends, or friends they met because of a shared experience from their youth), my kids aren’t going to stay home from a concert or not join the team or sorority because the old friends have nothing in common socially with the new group of friends and weren’t invited to participate.

You also claim that 20 year olds aren’t qualified to chose their friends and future roommates and who they will hang out with for 4 years. Really, then who is? Everyone judges and decides who they want to be friends with, whether it is a formal decision like Rush or an informal one, like ‘hey, do you want to be roommates?’ Admins for the university look at the stats and give a thumbs up or down, often without meeting the person, getting to know him, finding out that he’s mean, racist, filthy, negative, or a deadbeat, because admissions decisions are often made based just on a written application. During Rush, the existing members look at the applications, talk to those wanting to get in, find out if they have things in common and what the potential member can add to the group. Of course there are judgments about the applicant, but those judgments are made by admins too, and by employers, co-op housing boards, country clubs, civic groups and others throughout life. Is it really so hard to see that admins are making a judgment that this applicant with a 3.5/2000 SAT is good for the school and a sorority looking at an applicant and deciding this girl with a 3.5 and a girl scout gold award, who was a cheerleader, president of her drama club, who likes dancing and has a recommendation from 2 alums would be a good fit for this sorority? Or the admin who decides the kid with a 3.5/ 1950 just isn’t good enough for the school so rejects her, and the sorority who found the Rushee arrogant and messy and loud and, despite the 2 recommendations, rejects her?

I’ve worked in a lot of places where I wish the employers had judged the applicants a little more on the social interactions of the office and a little less on the stats to determined who got the job. If I have to spend 40 hours a week with someone, I want to like him.

120

Agreed. But if it’s 5% or 10%, it might be. There have been threads on this forum where parents advised students who were not interested in Greek life to avoid certain extremely Greek-dominated campuses, and I think that advice was appropriate.