<p>They have a new admissions dean and I think were totally swamped with apps this year, but I still am dismayed by what happened to je<em>ne</em>sais_quoi's daughter. If you all saw her stats and accomplishments, your jaw would be on the floor as mine still is. She sounds AMAZING! Admissions people need to learn to be restrained in their communications in these crunch times. If we on CC knew this was coming, admissions committes should have known it too.</p>
<p>Actually S got a likely letter from Wesleyan and was then wait listed. However, the Sat. after the decisions came out he received an email asking if he was still interested. He would have been admitted right then and there, three days later.</p>
<p>Yield management is all I could think. He was no longer interested in Wesleyan.</p>
<p>My s is a senior and my D is a junior. He applied to MIT this year, was deferred EA, then rejected in the RD round. Two days after MIT announced their decisions online, what should arrive in the mail from MIT? A marketing letter for his sister. I know one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, but MIT admissions could time this a little more sensitively. (She's not interested.)</p>
<p>newmassdad - the problem with sending your daughter's accomplishments to the adcoms who did not accept her is that most of them will have moved on to other positions or lives. One of my pet peeves about this process is that our kids' college acceptances are in the hands of mostly new grads of the school who have no professional training and often even less experience, other than having attended the school. Yes, there are some highly professional and experienced admissions officers but it's an expensive purchase and the buyers are 17 and 18 years old. we all deserve more accountability from schools and some minimum credentialing for adcoms given what things have become. Most l7 and l8 year olds do not understand what the office of "enrollment management" means....</p>
<p>Rileydog - In all fairness, I think you underestimate the knowledge base and depth of most undergraduate admissions offices. At highly selective schools, it is generally a consensus decision supported by the Dean of Admissions after the application has been read 2-3 times by different admissions officers.</p>
<p>I find it hard to get really upset with my son's rejections: they all made logical sense. He was rejected at one reach, waitlisted at the other. He was accepted at his two high match schools and his match school and his two safety schools (with $$). It was the waitlist at Rice that was hardest because he is a double legacy, but I think he just didn't court them enough. He probably would have gotten in if he had applied ED. He just couldn't figure out soon enough that Rice was his top choice. Anyway, the rejection makes it hard to write that alumni check to Rice this year. Does anyone else feel that way when their child is rejected from their alma mater?</p>
<p>WealthOfInformation - This is my second time around and my opinions have nothing to do with my kids' results but with the many visits, meetings and "info sessions" we have attended that do not reflect the behind the scenes realities. My opinions have to do with the lack of transparency, things like the relatively new term "holistic" admissions, which coincides with the growth of enrollment management officers and customized enrollment management programs sold by CollegeBoard to schools, etc, etc. I do not believe that a 23 year old former student of the university can sift through the realities of the lives of teenagers living under different situations - their experience with life is simply too limited. I do feel, if adcoms are professionals (and want to be viewed that way) then they should have no problem becoming certified or licensed with the backing of professional training, as a pre-requistie. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>My D has thus far only been rejected at MIT and when we looked at her application it really was just not that good. She disliked the essay prompts and was exhausted the weekend that she filled it out. Also, her math/science tearcher recommendation wasn't sent until he faxed it the week before decisions came out - again, my D's fault (she had somehow not got him the request back in late December). So we are not too bothered by the rejection.</p>
<p>What does rankle me a bit are the merit scholarship decision committees at two prominent schools that appear to be awarding scholarships more on the basis of financial need and diversity than actual academic merit. That's their perogative but when they advertise their scholarships as being intended for academic achievers and require three long essays plus big forms plus additional recommendations - they should advertise the competition for what it is (need based and diversity based). These are very worthy objectives but don't dupe students who don't fit those parameters into putting all the work into the applications.</p>
<p>Vassar has a new rejection letter and nicely written. ("....Applications to Vassar reached al all-time record high level this year, with 7,360 candidates for a freshman class of just 640 students. Unfortunately, this level of competition dictates that we must deny admission to many fine candidates.")</p>
<p>I know this is a thread about questionable admission decisions, but thought I'd say that in this case it was right. Vassar was my suggestion but son did not visit, even though we are 90 minutes away, and did not follow through with a visit to an adjunct voice teacher's studio. (Son applied to 7 colleges, total, so he's not working the system, but we should have figured this wasn't a go, not to mention the fact that Vassar gives zero merit aid.) Vassar accepted a very sweet, intelligent, athletic female friend of son's, so another smart thing.</p>
<p>Absolutely agree w/Rileydog on the very young age and inexperience of admissions "counselors". These 23 yr. old kids are making the first cut on many of these applications. At that age one has to be pretty mature to realize when their own preconceptions of others might stand in the way of fairly judging an applicant.That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.</p>
<p>neumes: Thanks for the info. I'm so glad they changed their letter. I remember D throwing it across the room. Luckily it came the day she was accepted at her dream school so the pain was just outrage at rudeness.</p>
<p>And for kids who really do care about a particular school, nicer wording can ease the pain just a tiny bit.</p>
<p>mythmom, I'm guessing that timing has a lot to do with it--having an acceptance in hand helps a lot--which might have been the case for my kid. He's kind of a sphinx, though, so it's hard to tell. I feel kind of bad that I pressured son into applying just because I think Vassar's a heaven-on-earth place to go to college. (I'm still chafing from having been rejected from Swarthmore many years ago!) I don't like anyone taking a cavalier approach and saying you are applying just for the hell of it, but that could be a protective mechanism. If you invest your heart and soul into a particular school and get rejected, that's really tough. </p>
<p>I bet that admissions people are sensitive to complaints about the process (and hence may have revised letters), and I imagine that they feel just awful having to reject lots of highly qualified, wonderful kids.</p>
<p>ricegal</p>
<p>My son didn't apply to my alma mater, but he did to my husband's and I would have been VERY upset if they hadn't admitted him (they did, so I still love them). I wouldn't expect a school to lower their standards for a legacy, but in a situation where a school has many highly qualified applicants for each spot, I feel a legacy should give a tip to the fully qualified student, especially if the alum has been very active on behalf of the college.</p>
<p>I'm very glad to have this venue to vent my anger at UC Davis for rejecting my 4.0 UC GPA daughter! We are soooo frustrated here in San Diego, because Davis was her 1st & only choice. CalPoly was the 2nd "Mom & Dad made me pick another school" choice & UCLA was the dream choice. So, now were stuck w/2 rejections & CalPoly's waitlist. Daughter applied to 5 more schools in the last 2 wks, & been accepted by 3 so far -- but she only wants to go to Davis. I can not, for the life of me, figure out why they rejected my daughter's application. She has stellar grades, lots of outside activities, a solid academic courseload throughout high school. It's mind-boggling. And now, she's considering UCRiverside for 2 yrs & transferring to Davis, which her Dad & I think is a lousy option. She deserves to be in a school that makes her happy for 4 yrs. And we can't guarantee she'll get into Davis in 2 yrs, anyway! I'm really confused as to why a public university is rejecting top-notch students. I understand Davis rejected 1200 4.0 students this year. Good luck to all of you finding your way along this road. I sure wish my daughter had applied to 6 instead of 3 colleges. What makes me crazy is we always emphasized to our daughters how their good grades & study habits would get them into a good school -- what a load of hogwash that turned out to be.</p>
<p>Dear Early Decision University,
Why did you reject my child two years ago when she was clearly academically qualified and she expressed so much of the interest that you claim to consider in your evaluations? Because of your rejection, she did a 180 degree turn on her college aspirations and decided to attend a huge instate public institution where she has come to value her social life on par (or higher) with her academics. I would like thank you, however, for saving us the 200 thousand dollars that it would have cost us out of pocket to educate her at your school.</p>
<p>If my child was a qualified applicant but rejected from either of my alma maters (undergrad or grad school), my yearly check to the alumni fund would immediately cease.</p>
<p>" If my child was a qualified applicant but rejected from either of my alma maters (undergrad or grad school), my yearly check to the alumni fund would immediately cease."
Agreed.
Tow people I know did just this.
The first was my sister's best friend, whose father was an Alumni of Tufts. He gave a very sizable donation to them..his grandaughter was rejected, even though her stats were very much up to the standards.
It could have been appealed ,but her attitude was that they didn't want her , then she did not want to use her grandfather's name to sway amissions.
She happily attended BC.
The second was my brother in law's daughter, who was rejected by his alma mater, Georgetown.
His yearly check stopped after that !</p>
<p>Sometimes it's just plain hard on a student and parent's ego. Especially if the student is a 4.0 student with all these great things on their application. There are 2 extremes when it comes to colleges/universities. </p>
<p>1) State school. If you are a resident, and can basically breath, you are admitted. Nothing wrong with these schools. MANY state schools are BETTER than many of the privates. I would compare UCLA, UT Austin, Michigan State, etc... To many of the privates who think they are a BETTER educations. Anyway; for the resident student, it's practically a guarantee. </p>
<p>2) HYPS and other so called TOP OF THE LINE schools that have a very low acceptance rate. This would even include service academies. Assume for a second that they will only accept between 1000-2000 students a year. Assume for a second that between 5000-10000 applications were submitted. Also assume for a second that most of these applications were practical and not a waste of time. I.e. they were all 3.85 through 4.0 gpa with 2000-2300 SAT, 30+ ACT, etc... Basically, so one has to get rejected from the list. It doesn't matter if you think you or your kid is a genius, special, hard working, etc... So is 95% of all the other applicants. The truth is; Yale accepted 9.9%; Harvard 10.3%; Princeton 11.9%; Dartmouth 18.3%; Columbia 10.5%; Annapolis 14%, etc...</p>
<p>It doesn't matter how great you think you the student, or your kid is when it comes to school. SOMEONE has to get rejected. Numerically, they just can't accept everyone who applies. So, there isn't anything that can really be said to an admissions office. Unfortunately, in this discussion, it's pretty much a moot point because the student has applied and will have a college decision one way or another shortly. But, for the student or parent reading this thread, there is a lot you can get out of it for when you or your student applies to these colleges. Especially if it's one you really truly want to get into.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Be strong academically. Obviously, as close to a 4.0gpa (unweighted) is important. As are SAT/ACT scores. But be able to get these scores taking the hardest classes available. E.g. IB program; AP classes; etc... If you can't take these advanced classes and maintain a high GPA, then your desire to go to an "elite" or highly competitive school may be unrealistic.</p></li>
<li><p>Be very well rounded. Not only get excellent grades in (1) above; but be involved in clubs, volunteer time, athletics, leadership roles, music. honor society, Boy's/Girl's state, etc.... Whatever you can thing of. Obviously, it's better to be involved in a few things and excel at them then to be involved with a lot of things and not stand out in any of them. In other words; don't just be a book worm. </p></li>
<li><p>EXCEL in something individually. While the schools like an individual who is well rounded, they also like individuals who have excelled in a particular area. This helps the school as a whole become well rounded. Academically, maybe you ACED the SAT and ACT. Maybe you WON a national award in physics, math, etc... Some sort of academic OVER ACHIEVEMENT that puts you into the minority. Maybe it's athletics. Maybe besides a the grades and such, you are an exceptional athlete. I don't mean just because you played varsity in High School and lettered. But be high enough caliber to be looked at for recruitment by other schools. Same with music, art, etc... Find something that you excel at that puts you into the minority.</p></li>
<li><p>Get excellent recommendations. Guess what? These schools actually read the recommendations. So many people like guidance counselors, teachers, principles, etc... write letters of recommendation every day. You can tell by their letters that there is nothing special about this student. Sorry, but that's the truth. If you're going to pick people that write letters of recommendation on a regular basis, then make sure you really are one of their favorites or a major stand out in the school. If you aren't a major standout, then look for a teacher to write a recommendation that doesn't normally write one. People like feeling wanted and special. The university doesn't know the difference between your math teacher or your guidance counselor. Nor do they care. But if your math teacher really likes you; is young; hasn't written many recommendations; etc.... they will be much more excited about writing one for you. It will sound more personal and more powerful. Obviously, if you can get important people like senators, representatives, CEO of a company, etc... AS WELL AS ALUMNI; then that is very impressive.</p></li>
<li><p>Every school has certain levels of open house and ways to "brag" about who they are. Attend these functions if possible. I.e. if you live within a couple of hours from one of the schools you are interested in, visit it as often as possible. Which goes hand in hand with getting face time. Remember; each university is made up of individual colleges. e.g. College of Business. Engineering, etc.... Visit or communicate with the one you are interested in. Yes, some people think it's OK to walk into college and "Not know what I want to major in". Yes, that is the liberal free spirit way of thinking. Nothing wrong with that. But, if you really want to get into a particular school, it really helps to know what you want to major. If you want to at least be in the general area of engineering, business, social science, etc.... then you can contact that particular college in the university. Start talking about your interests. Mention why you think there school is one of the best for you to study at. If you can get someone at the college interested in you, you can get them to help with your acceptance.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Anyway; there is no reason to be upset with a college/university, admissions, etc... for you or your kid not getting accepted to a particular school. Yes, it can be disappointing, but nothing to get upset about. No matter how good you or your kid thinks you are, there is always someone better. Also, there is ALWAYS a limit of how many students can be accepted at the private and prestigious schools. There are definitely things you can do to increase your chances, but that doesn't mean a guarantee. If you are seriously being considered for one of the top 50 schools that are very selective, then that is all you can ask for. Chances are, you will get one of them. It's just whether or not you applied. I've seen many students/parents apply to 1 DREAM school and use their State "U" as their backup. They also thought because they were a 4.0gpa, they were going to get a full ride and all the schools would be beating down the door for them. Do you know how many 4.0 gpa student, valedictorians, etc... get rejected from HYPS each year? Now, if you excel and have a 2400 SAT or 36 ACT, they will know you. But if you don't have something special as I described in #3 above, then you are just one of thousands with the same grades, class rank, classes, etc...</p>
<p>Christcorp,
I don't think state flagships are always guaranteed. There are many posts about rejections at UC's for students who appear qualified. In TX, the only guarantee for UT Austin is being in the top 10%. In many competitive public schools in TX, one B can put a student out of the top 10%. It is possible to be rejected from UT with stellar test scores, GPA, but a rank that's 11% or worse.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It is possible to be rejected from UT with stellar test scores, GPA, but a rank that's 11% or worse.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>While everything is possible, that scenario is highly improbable and is mostly part on an undying urban legend fueled by suburban parents. Of course, a lot depends on the definition of stellar test scores and the relevance of the GPA at different high schools. </p>
<p>Texas A&M still admits students with 1300 Math + Verbal SAT and a top 25% ranking automatically, and I doubt that UT rejects many instate students who score above 1300.</p>