<p>History mom...having had two D's grow up as soccer players....one through to college....I have had my share of sitting at soccer games in the rain (or even snow!). In that situation, as well as ski races when the wind chills are 30 below zero, I know my kid has to LOVE it to put up with that! And they do. Yours apparently do too. Kinda wholesome to me, compared with other ways they could use their free time. (same could be said for a myriad of other enriching activities of course)</p>
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Isn't it possible that there's a connection between our culture's worship of athletics --- the time and attention lavished on it down to the age of four --- and the evidence that as a nation we are not producing enough scientists and mathematicians?
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<p>I wonder how you could prove this...Can you point to a time when America didn't "worship athletics" and if so, did we produce more scientists and mathematicians then? It would be interesting to look at, (although correlation does not equal causation.)</p>
<p>"Let kids be kids"</p>
<p>You must understand we're talking teenagers still here. Let them have fun!!! For some that includes playing sports, for others that entails musical expression, while for others it's working out complicated math problems. Who cares!!!??? Let them do what THEY want to do!</p>
<p>Mammall, I am wondering if you understand that some kids WANT to do these activities such as sports. It is not as if parents like us want them to or make them do it. They want to do it so badly that they ask to do it. They do it for the love of it, not because they are gonna be an athlete for a career.</p>
<p>At the same time, they also care about their academic pursuits. You can be a scholar AND an athlete. At our school the top students are usually also athletes and if not, then they are in some other huge commitment like theater or music. Some are in both. At our school, the top students are NOT JUST academically inclined but also very committed to passions outside the classroom. I find that the kids in our school at the other end of the academic spectrum, are the least involved in big ECs. The ECs are not taking away from academics for the good students. To the contrary they excel at both as they are very into both.</p>
<p>"Anybody has a right to feel wrathful when they think they've been dissed"</p>
<p>Exactly spot on. </p>
<p>What I grew tired of, and it appears some others have to is putting down somebody else's kids to raise yours up.... </p>
<p>That's what I mean in believe in your kids, your postings tell me you don't because you can't go a paragraph without slamming someone else's kid and their choices. Again, I ask, Why do you care what "bobby smith" does for EC's? </p>
<p>Are you affraid your child won't match up? What I see when I read your posts is a lack of confidence in your own child. You don't have to put down anybody if you believe in your own child. </p>
<p>We've always told our kids "do your best" be it school or ECs. We've never said "do what bobby smith does.." or even made an effort to compare. </p>
<p>I am sorry to be this blunt, but I don't think you read what your posting from somebody else's shoes. </p>
<p>I don't care about anybody else's activities, I don't care about those schools that said "no" to my med school son. That's their loss. They screwed up. One school didn't. Why worry about those that said no? </p>
<p>I guess it's the half empty/half full part of life.</p>
<p>"also agree with mammall that emphasis on sports, on being athletic, on trying to be uber-athletic if possible is very powerful in our culture as we're raising our children and it's not entirely a positive thing"</p>
<p>Should we really blame the greeks and romans? </p>
<p>"and the evidence that as a nation we are not producing enough scientists and mathematicians?"</p>
<p>And why can't those scientists and mathematicans enjoy sport? Must the people who choose this career choice also carry an inhaler ?;) </p>
<p>A healthy mind and body has been the general goal of societies since fire..
why short shrift one side of that equation?</p>
<p>I have a similar question to Opie for Mammall. I am wondering why you CARE what ECs the other kids are doing. What does it matter if they end up at good colleges or less selective ones or whatever. I doubt that is why they are into sports. What does it matter their activity of choice? If you are confident in your own child's choices, who cares what other kids are interested in? You also seem to think that certain activities have more value over others. You mentioned your D has an elected position in four clubs or something of that sort. I think that's great.....IF the club is actually doing something productive and your D is actively involved in her contributions (as opposed to clubs that meet an hour a week and elect officers and don't have a lot to show for it). I think if your D's interests lie in these organizations and she has heavy duty commitments to them, that's super. I see no difference in whatever clubs she is interested in and active in with sports or with arts or newspaper or employment or community service. </p>
<p>The idea is for kids to be actively engaged in their interests outside the classroom. Who cares WHAT the interests are? I don't even believe that colleges care about the "what" but more about the level of commitment, dedication, significant contributions, leadership, and achievements. Sports are not more worthy than what I assume your D's EC's are (not sure just what they are) BUT LIKEWISE, I do not believe what your D is involved in is any more worthy than those who are in sports. The good news is that all of these kids are pursuing their interests for the sake of their interests (need not want to be a sports star when they grow up) and are spending their time in worthwhile endeavors and learning skills along the way, AND having fun (that is worth something too, in my view).</p>
<p>I find the math/science thing vs. sports to be almost funny. My kid's field (architecture) involves math and in fact, she was always a very strong math/science student. Many of her college teammates are pre-med. The star of her team just graduated, All American....is applying to med school and I bet she gets in.</p>
<p>To those who are fiercely defending sports here...I think the question being asked is whether our schools are allocating <em>excessive</em> resources to <em>certain</em> types of sports, thereby depriving other extracurricular (and possibly also some curricular) activities of those resources.</p>
<p>vicarious- that is NOT the question asked by the OP. In her mind, all sports are worthless, teach nothing and detract from more worthwhile pursuits, like Friday and Saturday nights reading at home with the family. (in my dreams....)</p>
<p>Vicariousparent....that is not how I read the OP's statements in both her first or subsequent posts. I believe many who have responded, including myself, have responded by quoting those posts or paraphrasing of those posts. </p>
<p>I am not aware at our school of sports depriving other ECs. The arts are really big at our HS too. We also don't have football or cheerleading. However, I didn't see the OP talking about funds for sports vs. lack of funds for her D's EC interests.</p>
<p>"I think the question being asked is whether our schools are allocating <em>excessive</em> resources to <em>certain</em> types of sports, thereby depriving other extracurricular (and possibly also some curricular) activities of those resources."</p>
<p>Excessive is in the eye of the beholder. I tend to believe focusing on what you don't have can make you overlook the things you that do. That's why some wealthy people can be so unhappy. That's why parents of some really bright kids can be unhappy as well. Rejoice in what you have, it is still far better than how most have it. </p>
<p>It's the old I used to complain about having no shoes till I met a man with no feet. Be thankful for what you have, don't worry about what somebody else has as it might be better or worse.</p>
<p>vacarious: please see my post at the top of the page. I can't speak for other programs but I do encourage anyone who questions how their school district allocates funds to sit in on the budget committee. It is a real eye- opener and you realize that most funding comes from various specific sources with clear strings attatched. For example there are separate budgets for facilities, instructional materials, and classroom supplies and the money can't be mixed. Point being that money that goes into running the lights at a football game is a different entity than money which goes into purchasing band instruments and to say that one is being robbed to pay for the other is not neccessarily accurate.</p>
<p>Additionally, at least here, many of the sports programs fund raise during their off-season. Football, soccer, volleyball and basketball for example all run camps to cover the cost of travel, warm-ups, duffles and the like. Plus I know our district is not alone in that football pays its own bill plus those of the other sports. </p>
<p>I also encourage anyone who wants to influence funding to join your high school's version of a Booster Club. Ours supports all student activities from band camp to Junior Prom as well as supplying classroom materials. If your's is more athlete centered (as our was years ago) join and make changes.</p>
<p>Rather than speculate as to why certain things get more money, find out why and if neccessary and possible make the attempt to change the system. Or, if they are disgruntled by funding patterns too, get your kids involved...it could be a great leadership opportunity for them.</p>
<p>Just an observation....</p>
<p>It's interesting that the parents of athletes don't obsess over the fact that their students don't get academic credit for the hours spent at practice and performing in games, whereas the students who do are in band, orchestra, choral groups, drama, the school paper (at least at our high school) get academic credit for their endeavors.</p>
<p>Many people resent the attention that sports get, especially in high school and college. But the commodity of "attention" is not a zero-sum game. It's not like if people are interested in football, they aren't interested in orchestra. Or rather, that if football were not around, they would all be going to the opera instead. It just doesn't happen like that. People just... like watching football (or basketball, baseball, soccer, name your poison). </p>
<p>Right now I have a roomful of people watching the UF Kentucky game. If there was not a game on today, they would be at the beach surfing, or at the fraternity house, or doing who-knows-what. But they would not be working on the school newspaper, attending student government meetings, or looking at the latest art exhibit. That's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with football taking them away from appreciation for other things, though. </p>
<p>You give people leisure activity choices; some will choose what you enjoy, some will choose other things. Some things will become extremely popular, some won't. Oh well. The alternative is deciding what's "best" and shoving down it everyone's throat. Personally, I don't understand why more people don't get into knitting.</p>
<p>maybe if someone offered lucrative professional knitting contracts...</p>
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Just an observation....</p>
<p>It's interesting that the parents of athletes don't obsess over the fact that their students don't get academic credit for the hours spent at practice and performing in games, whereas the students who do are in band, orchestra, choral groups, drama, the school paper (at least at our high school) get academic credit for their endeavors.
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<p>Yep, those kids at my school can take band class, orchestra class, etc.</p>
<p>But I have to stay for hours after school doing wind sprints with my basketball coach yelling in my ear, and no school credit. </p>
<p>I think varsity athletes are very good listeners, especially in my case. Our coach will give instructions for a drill once and only once, and if you don't get it right you're in serious trouble. "sprint, back pedal at half court, forward to baseline, backpedal to three pt line, sprint to half, back pedal to baseline, sprint back and forth to three pt 4 times and return to baseline for footwork." So obviously we learn to listen the first time.</p>
<p>The posts speak for themselves. I rest my case. So glad we are not a "sports" family.</p>
<p>mammall,</p>
<p>You clearly don't understand sports or the concept of competition, yet you pretend to think your children's chosen ECs of "student leadership" are somehow above all the "tribalism" and "agression" you abhor in sports.</p>
<p>Let's get the concepts right here. "Student leadership" is basically POLITICS at the junior level. Yeah, the student leaders all claim that they are out to help the community, just like our politicians. Can I sell you the Brooklyn Bridge?</p>
<p>And talking about "Tribal". Politics is ALL about the art competing tribes called "Political Parties". And the art of making alliances for a common good (forming a tribe) starts in High School and College student leadership.</p>
<p>And talking about "Agression". Government, even student government, is all about the control of resources and deciding who gets to do what. Show me government without coercion (or the implied threat of). The degree to which a government can control its subject is directly proportionate to the degree to which it can use aggression to supress competing tribes.</p>
<p>No the tribalism and agressive behavior of student government isn't nearly as big as world geopolitics, but neither is high school football like the NFL.</p>
<p>I just think you do not care to understand the tribal norms of behavior in athletics much like most people don't care to understand the tribal norms of politics.</p>
<p>You choose to be narrow minded about how others deal with these natural human behaviors and wonder why you are misunderstood?</p>
<p>Please try to understand those of other cultures before criticizing them.</p>
<p>mamma11: I don't know that your case 'rests' on firm ground. Unless your case is simply that you are so glad you are not a "sports" family. </p>
<p>Some of the points made here have been excellent- on how valuable sports is, and how for most 'sports' families it is truly a passionate pursuit- often at great cost, and with uncertain rewards in the college admission/scholarship game. I see that in some schools the football program finances other athletics, which is a great side-benefit. And it is certainly a great point that athletics gives no academic credit while music frequently does. Thank you all for making these points, which increased my respect for sports in school.</p>
<p>Ours is not a 'sports' family either, but we are certainly not a 'sports hostile' family. Except when we find ourselves tied up in traffic related to a sporting event that we had no clue about. Perhaps the sports fans get annoyed when they are tied up in traffic related to....an opera?!</p>