Can I get into St. Andrews as an International relations major?
My SAT is a 1990
My subject test scores are: English Lit- 730, US History- 700
My gpa (unweighted) is 3.8
My gpa (weighted) is 4.05
My AP scores as of now:
AP Euro Hist.- 4
AP US Hist- 5
AP Lang+ Comp- 5
Just to elaborate on my SAT
1990
700 critical reading
620 maths
670 writing
New SAT: 1370
770 English and writing
600 maths
However, I have had a significant amount of experience working in government and with foreign NGOs if that helps
@purplezebra5, as noted on your other thread, you need to meet the posted requirements, and for IR (one of the most popular courses), you need to meet them convincingly.
Of the minimum qualifications for IR, you meet just one of StAs options (subject tests, though not in their preferred combination), and your Euro AP score is a weakness. Still, StAs is arguably the most ‘Americanized’ of the UK unis, and most likely to consider your GPA and ECs. Your Personal Statement and LoR will be important. So (imo, and they don’t ask me) technically you ‘can’ get in, but it’s an open question as to whether you will get in.
As a note St. Andrews is the only one of 5 UK universities my kid applied to that asked her for her US high school transcripts and school profile.
Applying sooner will better your chances. Do you have your application in yet?
Really?! I thought I met all the requirements…
Looking at the redesigned SAT (my most recent) I have a very high writing and reading score.
I have the two subject tests
I have two 5s on my APs ( one of which is not in the particularly recommended, but neither is AP Euro). Even if those are ‘recommended’ it doesn’t mean they won’t count non-recommended APs as well? ( I am taking all the other recommended APs this year in school because most were not available to me junior year)
Maybe I am looking at the wrong information…?
The beauty of the application to St. Andrews is that their turnaround time with a response is pretty quick, especially if you get your application in early. Best to worry less and just get it in if you haven’t already. Once you have it in, you’ll know soon enough.
no haha, I hope to soon though. I am mainly wondering whether or not I have a chance to see if I should swap it for a different university
Hello @collegemom3717, you seem to know a lot about StA admissions. Have you or has anyone heard anything about admission requirements for Math at St. Andrews? Is a score of 5 on AP Calc AB is enough to satisfy the A-Level Math requirement (if taking AP Calc BC this year)? Note: 3 other APs also with scores of 5 (non-science) achieved, so would that meet the A-Level of AAA (including A in Math) for the Math department? Six additional AP courses being taken this year (incl AP Calc BC). Thanks!
hi @MANVMom2016! I am cautious about projecting what admissions tutors will do, b/c they see the whole app & we don’t- and also and b/c I have been wrong in my opinions often enough!
That said, I would be surprised if Calc AB would be enough for an unconditional offer: my best guess would be that an offer would be conditional on a 5 on BC.
One thing that US students often don’t realize is that the requirements matter for more than simply getting in: the coursework will assume that all the students in the subject have pretty comparable background. A level math and Calc BC overlap a lot, but not perfectly, The course content will assume that the cohort has have done math to A level standard, and the tutors will use that as a starting point. A differently or less-well prepared student will be expected to make up any deficiencies on their own. The admissions tutors (imo) would be likely to want to be sure that the student’s preparation is strong enough that they will be successful in the course.
@collegemom3717 , this is all so confusing. Here is the entrance info from Oxford’s Mathematical Institute:
"American qualifications
Note: You do not have to have achieved these grades prior to applying.
Our offer requires grade 5 in at least 3 Advanced Placement Tests, with either Calculus AB or BC. Statistics, Physics (1 or 2), and Computer Science are other appropriate subjects to have, though they are not required. If you cannot or have not taken APTs, we also accept at least 700 in 3 SAT Subject Tests, including Mathematics Level 1 and 2 (although only one will count towards the 3) . You may also have a combination of SAT subject tests and APTs in the appropriate grades, provided they are in different subjects (because Maths Level 2 contains no calculus we consider Maths Level 2 and AP Calculus to be separate subjects).
In addition to either APTs or SAT Subject Tests we also require a score of at least 2100 in the SAT Reasoning Test, with at least 1400 in Critical Reasoning and Mathematics. Alternatively, you can achieve at least 32 out of 36 in the ACT."
Looks like Calc AB may be enough, at least for Oxford? Although my S doesn’t believe a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam in May will be a problem at all. Still, he would rather have an unconditional offer.
It is confusing, @MANVMom2016 - and more so when you look at different unis. Two things:
St As & Oxford are completely different beasts. For Oxford, the key to getting to admissions is the interview, and the key to getting invited to an interview is the MAT score (your son should have either just heard about the interview or will hear about early this coming week). Once at interview, you start from a level playing field; it’s only when it get to the tough choices that they go back and say ‘oh, this one has x,y and z, while that one has a and b’ strengths / weaknesses in the rest of their app. The offer is then crafted for each successful applicant.
The tutors get to decide what their offer is, based on achieved and predicted scores plus the rest of the application. So while Oxford states ‘either AB or BC’ it is their prerogative to say ‘we want the BC’ if the applicant is taking the exam. In other words, you can meet / exceed the minimum and they can still ask for specific marks from exams with predicted marks (I have seen this more than a few times). The tutors setting the offer at both unis will know that your S is taking BC. Oxford has the MAT and an interview: if your son is dazzling at both they could feel that they have enough info and take the AB (though I wouldn’t bet the farm on it). StAs don’t have as much other info to go on and as I said above, I would be surprised if they didn’t want to see the BC mark. Again, this is just opinion: the tutors are the experts- and they have a lot more information to work with!
Have you considered applying to the William & Mary and Saint Andrews Joint Degree Program? You can spend two years at each and get a degree from both in international relations. Both are well known and highly respected in international relations. It would also greatly simplify your application requirements because you can apply through Common App and submit an extra essay for the application if you are applying through W&M, and they tend to view applications more holistically as well.
OP can apply to StAs through the Common App anyway, @shawnspencer. Agree that the W&M program is super, and W&M is somewhat more holistic- but imo the Joint Degree Program it is more competitive for entry than StAs.
Does anyone know if it is easier or harder to get into one major vs another as an American student? Someone told my son not to apply to International Relations even though that is what he wants to study because they said it is the hardest major to get into and it is very easy to transfer once you get there. Anyone thoughts??
It’s not so much the American part, it’s the subject.
It is not easy to transfer into IR. Transfer to a very closely related subject is usually possible, but IR is heavily oversubscribed, and you can bet that your son’s friend is not the first person to think of applying to a lower-points entry/less oversubscribed subject and transferring over. Obvs, not saying it couldn’t happen, but Imo it would be a bad plan for your son to apply to any subject that he wouldn’t be happy in. St Andrews is the most ‘American’ of the UK unis, but even so, by American standards the system is not particularly flexible. He should read the course details very, very carefully - for most subjects you can work out all the required classes and also see at least an indicative list of optional modules.
If your son is well qualified, he should be able to get in anyway.
This from a St Andrews fact sheet…
For over ten years St Andrews has been amongst the most popular universities in the UK, with
approximately ten students vying for every one place to study here. In some subjects – International
Relations and Economics – there may be upto 25 applications per place.
It seems this year they are particular stingy on the IR offers, I can only imagine they are waiting for American/Canadians who withdraw their applications after domestic ED decisions and the home students after Oxbridge offers, around mid Jan, until they are left with most likely to attend candidates.
Thanks for the help everyone! I was accepted!
Good job Zebra, was it unconditional?
Yup!