Son accepted to University of St. Andrews and thrilled and happy as he is duel citizen, going to study management/econ. Then curveball this week when Wisconsin came through for PreBuisness and he wants to study Real Estate. It is the top Real Estate program in country. But such different experiences and he has to make decision this week (his graduation week from boarding school). He hated cutthroat culture of boarding school. Loved WI people when he visited. UK they treat you like an adult, which is so nice. Anyone out there with thoughts from either school? How hard is it to go from PreBusiness to Business at WI? He didnāt get direct admit. 35 ACT, 4/5ās of APs super smart but lazy in high school as focused on social life.
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If ālazy in HS and focused on social lifeā then I would be having a conversation about the differences in studying/ teaching at St Andrews. In the UK system, there are 2 assessments and one exam per term per subject. No room for error. It will look like other students are not doing any work - but they will be! because they are used to the system!
Not to say he wouldnāt thrive, but Iād definitely have a conversation with him about the ābeing treated like an adultā - which IS nice, and good for someone who has been away at boarding school - but does come with ramifications. e.g. you are v unlikely to have access to his grades etc.
St Andrews is also v theoretical / academic in the teaching of management/ Econ. Also when I was there, there was a particularly nasty weed out math class in 2nd year - I would check if that still exists by looking at the curriculum in detail.
Also - have you visited???
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Visited several times and cousins have attended. We know what we are getting in St. Andrews but clueless in WI. As a Brit, I canāt compare the two. However, that Real Estate program is amazing and life changing. Just so much of the same from boarding in MA to college in WI.
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DD got into both. Wasnāt in love with her looks at social life at Wisco, knows her way around private school rigor, visited Scotland and loved the school even more and is excited about the journey of education in Europe. Wisco has a lot of admirers in the domestic job world, a decent network and itās a college with a rising reputation. I believe that Wisconsin will be more admired 4 years from now, not less. How much of a cost difference between the two? Itās PROBABLY not going to cost you $65-70k to go to Wisconsion. St. Andrewās looks like a pretty good deal than most schools, just keep in mind the air travel as well as potential currency fluctuations. DD chose St. Andrews because private high school taught her how to deal with just about any rigor thrown at her in college and she wanted to tackle an amazing adventure. Although St. Andrews has a strong % of American students it is a culture change. Does your son have anyone in his boarding school circle thatās also heading overseas? There are a fair number of boarding school kids at St. Andrews, so if heās looking to possibly āget awayā from boarding school culture, thatās also a consideration.
So heās concerned there is too much hand holding at UW Madison and not being treated like an adult as opposed to in the UK? Does he want to work in the UK or in the US?
I have a kid that graduated from UW this weekend. He was a high stat/apply anywhere kind of student and he had a great experience there. Though he was not in the business program. I actually think the possible downside of a large US public is you need to be more self motivated and more āadultā than smaller US schools. Like some of the LACs in the middle of nowhere my kid was considering I think would have been too restricting for him over time. The big publics tend to be more sink or swim. Wisconsin feels warm and collaborative, though there are plenty of high flyers that end up all over. Most freshman live in a dorm, most upper classman rent off campus. My kid that just graduated is renting a house in madison now with several others and is very much adulting. He is also quirky, nerdy, not a partier/drinker, never been to a football game, etc. Definitely not a stereotypical kid youād think of there. It has been great, he has a great social circle.
Anyway, you are welcome to PM me if you have questions about Madison! We are not local but do travel there frequently, I was there last week.
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Super smart but lazy comes with pros and cons when comparing the US and UK. Someone who is able to memorize everything for end of term/year exams but doesnāt bother to turn in homework is likely to do better in the UK. But someone who doesnāt know how to study is likely to do much worse: UK students are expected to spend multiple weeks revising on their own for high stakes exams even in high school. And you may not find out anything is wrong until you see the end of year exam results.
I would also be a little wary of St Andrews as the Scottish kids are super smart and motivated (it is far more competitive for them as they donāt pay fees if they stay in Scotland) while admissions for Americans who pay a lot are relatively easy, so the foreigners may not be as talented. Our neighborās kid (who was also smart but has ADHD) found it very challenging to keep up there.
Iād also think that working in the US after college is likely to be more attractive than the UK as salaries are much higher: my S is in real estate consulting and gets paid well (albeit heās working 50 hours a week pretty regularly). He applied to UK colleges (mainly interested in Oxford - we are British originally) but heās glad he stayed in the US as he was able to focus much more on his interests (housing policy). Iād note he got almost no handholding at his public flagship (UCLA).
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U Wisconsin is going to be a very different experience from boarding school: itās going to be huge, with a lot of socio-economic diversity, a capital city on his doorstep, passionate sports rivalries and supporters (and the top-notch academics will be very different than what heās used to, unless he got into the Chadbourne residential college or to a small extent applied to an Honors program).
Heāll have a leg up bc boarding school kids know how to advocate for themselves, heāll understand immediately the importance of office hours&writing/math/tutoring centers.
(Chadbourne may not be of interest but here it is just in case:
Chadbourne is a ācollegeā in the British sense.)
BTW there are interesting Learning communities for his major:
St Andrews will definitely be more hands-off academically, more intense, more focused study, but socially itās likely to be more similar to his boarding school experience: lots of upper middle/upper class students and private/boarding school kids among Americans and, to a certain extent, also for Scottish students (āpublicā&boarding schools).
Another difference: drinking is legal at age 18. Thereās an oncampus bar, etc.
Are you willing to share which boarding school in Massachusetts ?
Andover ? Groton ? Milton ? Deerfield ? Or ?
Interesting to see Wisconsin ranked #1 for Real Estate ahead of U Penn-Wharton and NYU Stern. Congratulations !
P.S. OP: Was a specific reason or deficiency given as to why your son was not a direct admit to Wisconsinās business school ?
If no specified deficiency, then let Wisconsin make the decision for your son. Share that he will accept if offered direct admission to the business school, otherwise he has an offer of direct admission from another university.
Deerfield. His junior year grades with at 89 average put him in bottom quintile (although range is small and 93 is top quintile). He wasnāt happy at boarding school as he was too young and from california, he didnāt have the edge to deal with the competitiveness of east coast. He is a softy. Sensitive and kind.
Anyone who makes it through an elite prep boarding school such as Deerfield Academy is not lazy.
However, Deerfield Academy would not be my first choice for a sensitive boy.
You certainly know Deerfield! It was rough, although I adore the school.
So appreciate all this amazing input. Will share with him next week when we sit down to press the accept or decline!
My heart is in St Andrews but me head is at Wisconsin. He loved WI when he visited. Said everyone was so kind. However, he is totally on the fence right now and focused on graduation.
If he went to a boarding school and knows how to advocate for himself then he will do just about at any college. Most students really donāt have the art of self advocating when they start freshman year. Heās already ahead. There really isnāt alot of hand holding at college. You need to ask for the help but there will be plenty like peer to peer and professor hours type of help. I personally wouldnāt worry about him at Wisconsin. Also regardless where he went to school college tends to be harder. After the first few weeks he will understsmd what is expected of him. Many, many students do fall behind in the first few weeks due to the different work loads in college. As long as he knows that he will be fine. There is always the work hard /play hard mentality many colleges have. Good luck.
Students who attend the super elite New England prep boarding schools (Andover, Exeter, Deerfield Academy, St. Paulās School, Groton, Hotchkiss, and maybe a couple of others like Lawrenceville & Choate Rosemary Hall) often find college easier and less demanding than their boarding school.
Long ago Harvard and other Ivies studied St. Paulās School curriculum to determine why SPS students found college so easy.
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So here I think we have two main concerns: academic fit and socioenvironmental fit.
It sounds like neither school has an advantage, or much of one, on the latterā¦ but if he is interested in Real Estate, UW would appear to have the advantage for academic fit.
I would also consider where he wants to live and work after school.
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Well then they can go deeper and further challenge themselves with advance classes.
I totally agree. My head says if you want to do Real Estate (it is a family business) then WI. But my heart says āwhen will you ever get a chance at something so different as this opportunity at St. Andrews.ā As a Brit I am also toally bias as I see St. Andrews as a top college and WI as WI! We are now flying out to his school with a spreadsheet of pros and cons so he can at least make an informed decision. I am a āthink out of the boxā person. However, this isnāt my decision. Just hard to get him to focus with finals and graduation from boarding school.
The University of Wisconsin is fairly prestigious internationally. We have a huge research budget, so weāre constantly trying to move the world forward.
UW was an original member of the prestigious Association of American Universities (AAU), along with most of the Ivy League, Johns Hopkins, the U of Michigan, Cal-Berkeley, Stanford, and a few other academic powerhouses.
UW has won a bunch of Nobel Prizes ā not the most, but a respectable number.
Most of our grad and PhD programs are ranked in the top 25 among US universities, and many of those are in the top ten. (and where undergrad program rankings are available, we typically show well at that level too.)
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If you son attends St. Andrews, will he later earn an MBA ?
Quite often, those who major in businessāespecially with a specialization such as Real Estateācan forego the time & money investment of later attending an MBA program.
Motivation: Which option is more academically exciting to your son ?
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Pre-Business Admissions Policies | Wisconsin School of Business describes the process, but does not say if it is automatic admission for those who meet the course and 3.0 GPA requirements, or if it is competitive among those who meet those requirements as minimum criteria.