Stanford or Berkeley

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
41

<p>OP,</p>

<p>It's been a while, but I'm a graduate of both Stanford and Berkeley. I still live and work in the Bay Area, and know both areas well.</p>

<p>Some comments:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Palo Alto is a very pricey suburb; there aren't that many businesses that cater to students. Telegraph Ave. does cater to students very heavily. It's definitely friendlier on the typical student budget. The crime rate's probably higher in Berkeley.</p></li>
<li><p>The notion that Stanford, more than Berkeley, is a school for rich white kids, is silly. Post Prop. 209, Berkeley's student body is considerably whiter than Stanford's. Here's the actual ethnic breakdown of Stanford undergraduates by ethnicity:</p></li>
</ol>

<p>African American 12.3%
Asian American 24.6%
International 6.2%
Mexican American 9.2%
Native American 2.2%
Other Hispanic 2.8%
White 37.3%
Unidentified 5.4% </p>

<p>Nothing of my experience at the two schools led me to think that Stanford students on average came from wealthier families than Cal students.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Sure, overall, Stanford is more selective than Berkeley. But you could replace Stanford's entire freshman class with a group selected solely from Cal's freshman class with little or no drop-off in average test scores.</p></li>
<li><p>The Cal bureaucracy can be frustrating. I've never quite forgiven them for losing my application for a guaranteed student loan, which caused me to miss a deadline triggered by a change in the law. The result was no loan my first year of law school, which triggered a serious financial crisis for my family.</p></li>
</ol>

42

<p>ABronzan, I think you should know that Berkeley's reputation in engineering is not comparable to Stanford's, particulalry at the undergraduate level. Stanford is the best engineering school, along with MIT and Caltech and is simply in a different league to Berkeley.</p>

43

<p>inuendo...just curious...do you have any sources for the comments that you made?</p>

44

<p>mosharma, look at any college rankings or resource and you will find MIT, Stanford and Caltech rated as the top engineering schools. Definitely above Berkeley. This is not to say, in anyway, that Berkeley is mediocre at engineering. I think it is a fantastic university and is exceptional in many fields, engineering included. However, in comparison to Stanford, I feel that it falls behind.</p>

<p>Please visit: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=51717%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=51717&lt;/a> to see that my opinion is not biased in any way.</p>

45

<p>Speaking as an employee of a company that employs a large number of engineers, I couldn't disagree more with Inuendo's view that Berkeley's engineering program is not in Stanford's league. They really are comparable.</p>

46

<p>Your one person, from one firm. Your's is not an universal opinion. The majority of people who are knowledgeable about engineering courses and college academics will tell you that Stanford is superior. This is reiterated by college rankings and guides.</p>

47

<p>Inuendo,</p>

<p>What are your sources for this "majority of people" on whose behalf you claim to speak?</p>

48

<p>hey, i was accepted to both stanford and berkeley. i'm planning on majoring in political science. stanford's offering me a good financial package, so i didn't even consider berkeley as an option till i read this form. should i? everything i've read everywhere else tends to put Stanford above Berkeley... i thought</p>

49

<p>Yeah, there are a lot of berkeley students/alums/admirers knocking stanford on this thread- this advice is by no means objective. What your should get from this thread is that Berekeley is a good school, too, and shouldn't be automatically discounted. Stanford is a good school, but not greatly ahead of Berkeley.</p>

50

<p>We're not comparing Stanford and Yale here. It's Berkeley, and in my opinion, Stanford is indeed far far far ahead of Berkeley. Take that as hubris/arrogance if you will, but I will always speak my mind rather than be cowardly politically correct. Stanford is a far superior school by all objective measurements.</p>

51

<p>inuendo - the times higher education put Berkeley at #1 for engineering school. Not to mention Berkeley is number 1 or 2 in graduate engineering.</p>

52

<p>rooster- and in my opinion, as well as many employers and graduate school admission officers, Berkeley and Stanford are both amazing schools and aren't too far away from each other in terms of prestige and academics. You can claim all you want that Stanford is better than Berkeley, but onceyou get out and end up working with "inferior" berkeley graduates and <em>gasp</em> you might even have some as your boss. Have fun in Palo Alto with all their yuppies.</p>

53

<p>Stanford. Without a doubt.</p>

54

<p>Innuendo,</p>

<p>After I disagreed with your claim that Berkeley's undergraduate engineering program is not in Stanford's league, you responded as follows: "Your one person, from one firm. Your's is not an universal opinion. The majority of people who are knowledgeable about engineering courses and college academics will tell you that Stanford is superior. This is reiterated by college rankings and guides."</p>

<p>I'm calling your bluff. </p>

<p>The first such ranking I checked was the US News ranking of undergraduate engineering programs, which ranked MIT number, one, Stanford number two, and Berkeley number three, and ahead of Cal Tech. US News ranked Berkeley ahead of Stanford in computer engineering and chemical engineering.</p>

<p>I'll say it again: they really are comparable.</p>

55

<p>adding to what greybeard said....isn't Berkeley's Civil Engineering department ahead of MIT's and Stanfurd's???</p>

56

<p>Ya sorry about that Grey Beard. I made a mistake with that post. I incorrectly assumed that Berkeley was ranked lower in engineering than I thought and after checking US News, realised my mistake. </p>

<p>I still stand by my view that Stanford is a significantly better school than Berkeley though.</p>

57

<p>for everyone reading inuendo's posts - this CLEAR mistake about Berkeley's engineering department ranking (which EVERYONE knows it one of the best) just shows how much he really knows about Berkeley and college in general. Things he say should definitely be taken with a LARGE GRAIN OF SALT since he is obviously in it for the prestige and does not really understand the academics.</p>

58

<p>irock 1ce, you don't even know me. You assumed so many things based on me admitting to an error I made. How does what I have posted indicate in any way that I am "obviously in it for the prestige and (do) not really understand the academics?" Additionally, if "EVERYONE" knew that Berkeley's engineering department was one of the best then we wouldn't be discussing it on this forum.</p>

<p>I think you need to stop promoting Berkeley so over zealously.</p>

59

<p>“A class of 500 is considered a small class at Berkeley. There's little personal attention from professors”</p>

<p>That is such a misleading, incorrect, sentence. Those are the largest classes, although I have heard of a few with more . . . those, however, are broken into two smaller ones, of about 400 each.</p>

<p>Yibun
“The bottom line: Stanford outranked Berkeley in business, law, engineering and education while Berkeley gave Stanford a better run for the money in social sciences and humanities."</p>

<p>Berkeley engineering and Stanford engineering are considered comparable, although it is considered more impressive to have a Berkeley engineering degree than a Stanford engineering degree. And as to the others, I’ve never heard the bottom line stated like that before. </p>

<p>Forever Zero </p>

<p>“Yibun, where did you see Berkeley ranked higher than Stanford? US News ranks Stanford undergraduate much higher than Berkeley, and most of Stanford's graduate rankings beat Berkeley as well.”</p>

<p>They don’t rank undergraduate . . . but they do say that Berkeley is the best school, overall, for Grad, and that in many subjects, Berkeley beats Stanford. If you are going to worship them and cite them, accept this, too.</p>

<p>Gutrade </p>

<p>“The admit pool to Stanford is measurably superior to the admit pool at Berkeley.
At Stanford you'll be surrounded by much more intellectually motivated students who have accomplished amazing things in life. This is not the case at Berkeley. Although there will be some amazing students at Berkeley by the law of large numbers, on average you will be surrounded by a less intellectual student body.”</p>

<p>So GPA + sat scores + AP scores/45 * sat II scores = intellectual ability. O wait, not at all. Intellectually motivated students? Does that mean more studious, or more intellectual? I see them as different aspects of person. Stanford admits, on average, have higher test scores and comparable GPAs.</p>

<p>“The bureaucracy at Berkeley is also horrendous. To the administration, you are just a number, and they don't care whether you flunk out, are overwhelmed, or go through incredibly hard times. In terms of undergraduate education, you cannot compare the two by any means. Stanford is so much better than Berkeley that you might as well be comparing Yale to UVA.”</p>

<p>The bureaucracy doesn’t care? You paint this portrait of callous, apathetic zombies that cannot be. They may not be able to spend as much time on each person as they do at Stanford simply because of numbers, but they care, and they will help. It sounds like one major difference between the schools is that at Berkeley, you have to seek out the resources . . . at Stanford they are often given to you. And stop trying to put down schools by comparison. How about constructive criticism.</p>

<p>”Anyway, like 99 percent of cross-admits choose Stanford. You might feel a bit awkward at the Big Game when the Stanford crowd yells, "Accepted" and points to you saying "Rejected!"”</p>

<p>Yay, made-up statistics. Oh, and citing sports chants to defend one’s position, now that is a great argument.</p>

60

<p>Rooster 08 “And Berkeley is full of Stanford rejects”</p>

<p>“And the survey seems to disprove the popular refrain that Cal is a safety school for Stanford rejects — one-third of the respondents who applied to Cal said they were not admitted.”</p>

<p>That is the most important part. The article, as a whole, is interesting.</p>

<p>Friends or Foes?: Daily online survey reveals surprising degree of respect & appreciation for school across the Bay </p>

<p>Friday, November 16, 2001
last updated November 16, 2001 2:43 PM</p>

<p>Editor’s Note: In preparation for tomorrow’s 104th Big Game, The Daily ran a two-week online survey inviting a wide range of Stanford community members — undergraduates, graduates and alumni — to weigh in about Cal and the historic cross-Bay rivalry. This story presents the results of the survey, which was written and developed by sophomores Feng, of Stanford, and Simler, of UC-Berkeley.
The friendly competition between Stanford and UC-Berkeley has produced one of the longest and most colorful of collegiate rivalries. With a history rich in lore, its annual culmination in the Big Game determines Bay Area bragging rights for the remainder of the year. </p>

<p>With such a storied tradition behind them, it is not surprising that students at Cal and Stanford — or perhaps more affectionately, Kal and Stanfurd — have been taunting, playing tricks and causing good-natured mayhem toward their across-the-Bay counterparts for more than a century.</p>

<p>Evaluating the stereotypes</p>

<p>The rivalry, of course, comes packaged with certain assumptions made by both sides. At Stanford, the prevailing opinion is that Cal students are quite liberal and a bit less academically inclined. </p>

<p>And the city of Berkeley doesn’t do much to redeem its students in the eyes of Stanford. With an ample supply of seedy characters, Berkeley is not the most conventional place for intellectual stimulation.</p>

<p>To determine whether these stereotypes accurately reflect the views of Stanford students, The Daily prepared the online survey, which a total of 430 Stanford people, representing a sizeable sample of both current students and alumni, took. </p>

<p>In addition, 330 responses came from loyal — but pernicious — Cal students, who in true Big Game rivalry fashion “crashed” the survey in an attempt to tamper with the results.</p>

<p>Consequently, numerous survey entries peppered with comments like “Stanford sucks” and “Go Bears” and renditions of the Cal fight song had to be removed from the final data set.</p>

<p>Respect for the enemy</p>

<p>In the eyes of many, Stanford is one of the premier private universities in the nation, while Cal is among the top public universities in the country. While it is to be expected that Stanford affiliates would acknowledge Cal as an academic counterpart, a surprising 93 percent said they had respect for Cal as an academic institution.</p>

<p>Moreover, 60 percent of Stanford students said they thought they would be happy attending Cal.</p>

<p>But the difficulty of UC-Berkeley is not lost upon the Stanford populace — 72 percent said they feel that Cal’s workload is as hard or harder than that of Stanford.</p>

<p>And the survey seems to disprove the popular refrain that Cal is a safety school for Stanford rejects — one-third of the respondents who applied to Cal said they were not admitted.</p>

<p>Contrasting environments</p>

<p>Cal’s political ideologies were made famous during the ’60s and ’70s, when Berkeley was a hotspot for left-leaning social awareness, imbued with a heavy dose of hippie culture.</p>

<p>It seems that this opinion lives on, as nearly four-in-five respondents said they feel that Cal students are more liberal, though only 28 percent would go so far as to say that Cal students are “a bunch of radical protesters.”</p>

<p>Three-in-five polled felt the Cal populace was “more in tune with the real world.” Some praised Cal students for their activism.</p>

<p>“I don’t necessarily agree with all the things they do, but somebody needs to bring these issues to attention,” said Stanford sophomore Ray Chen.</p>

<p>Tucked serenely beneath the Santa Clara Foothills, the notorious “Stanford Bubble” contrasts sharply with urban Berkeley,where bustling streets are lined with a wide selection of shops and restaurants. With the campus’s eight-story high-rise dormitories, on a clear day one can see the Golden Gate Bridge.</p>

<p>74 percent of respondents said they like the fact that Cal is integrated into the city, though nearly two-in-five still deem it “a dirty place.”</p>

<p>“I’ve been there a couple of times, and I wouldn’t like the quality of life there,” said junior Rustin McCullum.</p>

<p>Occupying Golden Bear territory is a student body composed of more than 31,000 students, 70 percent of whom are Asian or Caucasian. Nevertheless, 86 percent of those polled felt that Cal was diverse.</p>

<p>A fun tradition gone too far?</p>

<p>The rivalry has had its share of amusing moments on both sides. In addition to the excitement of the game itself, the rivalry’s symbol, the Axe, has been a constant source of enjoyment over the years. </p>

<p>In all, 86 percent of respondents agreed that the rivalry is an enjoyable addition to their college experience. </p>

<p>But the rivalry extends far beyond the Big Game and infects other aspects of the interaction between Stanford and Cal. Each sport seems to have its own version of the showdown. For swimming, it’s the Big Swim. For track and field, the Big Meet. </p>

<p>Though the rivalry has many positive attributes, a sizeable number of Stanford students said they feel it is often pushed too far. Thirty-six percent thought that Cal students took the rivalry too seriously, and 28 percent said they think Stanford students go overboard. </p>

<p>“I enjoy the fun part of the rivalry,” said one respondent. “But I hate at the game how our student section acts like we’re better. I especially hate the ‘You will work for us’ [chant] because they are at the same academic level as us.”</p>

<p>One-in-five respondents claimed to have a hatred for Cal, which comes as no surprise to students like Cal sophomore Howard Ching, who actually found the figure somewhat low.</p>

<p>“Definitely more than 20 percent of Cal students hate Stanford,” he said. “I’ve been to Stanford a few times and it didn’t seem like they really hate Cal all that much.”</p>

<p>Hatred on the part of Stanford students was found more often in those who were rejected from Cal, but less often in those with friends and family there. </p>

<p>This rang true with Cal freshman Claire Wineman, whose brother is a senior at Stanford. According to Wineman, having a sibling across the Bay “kind of tones down the rivalry.” </p>

<p>However, Wineman was quick to point out where her loyalties lie. “Cal is better of course,” she declared.</p>

<p>“Tempered by time and </p>

<p>distance”</p>

<p>The rivalry also seems to be tempered by time and distance, as data gathered on alumni shows. Alumni report hating Cal half as often as students, said they enjoy the rivalry more and in general had better things to say about their Cal counterparts than did current Stanford students. </p>

<p>Despite their misgivings, both alumni and students gave mostly positive remarks about Cal and the rivalry.</p>

<p>The comments section of the survey contained the occasional “Cal sucks,” but the prevailing attitude was tolerant and respectful.</p>

<p>When Cal comes marching in for the Big Game tomorrow, it will be the continuation of a long and hallowed tradition. </p>

<p>And who knows what Cal students will be thinking of their Stanford counterparts as they stroll down Palm Drive. After all, aren’t Stanford students just a bunch of elitists, isolated from the rest of the world?</p>