<p>Hi. I am new to this forum. I have a question regarding a scenario i never would have imagined.</p>
<p>A student graduates from high school with very good stats: GPA (4.3) very good SAT/ACT scores (2250/33), etc., was accepted to a very-selective university (USNEWS Top-20), with a merit/academic scholarship for $20,000 per year. The student enjoys college social life too much, and the gpa drops below the required minimum - and the student ultimately loses the academic scholarship.</p>
<p>Can that student, with 32 freshman units (2.5 gpa) from College-1, withdraw from that college, and apply as a fresman to College-2. </p>
<p>Before you answer regarding the ethics of the equestion, which may be most important, first answer with regards to if it is technically possible.</p>
<p>Willl College-2 somehow know (find out) that the student went to College-1, and has a GPA of 2.5?</p>
<p>What if the GPA were 3.7 (not a low GPA) from College-1, and a student simply wanted to apply as an incoming freshman to College-2. It would not make any sense, since the student could easily transfer their 32 units to the new school. But, can a student even do that?</p>
<p>Maybe College-2 only accepts incoming freshman -OR- those with 60 units. And the student did not want to wait till he/she has 60 units, and therefore wants to start over again as a fresman. Is it possible?</p>
<p>Most colleges state on their website that freshmen are students who have never attended college full-time. I believe that College 2 will find out about College 1 if the student applied for financial aid at College 1, and then at College 2. Since everything is done under the student's social security number, and I believe that there are limits on how many years one can have undergraduate Federal aid, College 2 will find out.</p>
<p>Willl College-2 somehow know (find out) that the student went to College-1, and has a GPA of 2.5?
Yes. There are many ways, but the simplest problem is that the high school transcript would have dates. The college would want to know what the applicant has been doing in the last year and why. I also doubt that the teachers or GC writing recs would just ignore the fact that the student went to college for a year in their recs. Most schools also ask about previous college experience.</p>
<p>What if the GPA were 3.7 (not a low GPA) from College-1, and a student simply wanted to apply as an incoming freshman to College-2. It would not make any sense, since the student could easily transfer their 32 units to the new school. But, can a student even do that?
I do not believe that is normally allowed. A certain number of credits usually automatically upps a student into second year or beyond. </p>
<p>Maybe College-2 only accepts incoming freshman -OR- those with 60 units. And the student did not want to wait till he/she has 60 units, and therefore wants to start over again as a fresman. Is it possible?
You'd have to ask the school. Since 32 credits would likely qualify the student for second year standing, they may not accept him as a second year. They likely would not accept him as a first year if he has the credits for second year.</p>
<p>Anything is possible I suppose. But the scenario described is certainly very unusual. I'm sure you have a reason for considering this approach, but I'd encourage you to think through a variety of options before pursuing this one.</p>
<p>PS, Great stats. I'm sure a suitable college experience can be found. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>Just wondering - Does the student no longer like college-1 or the parents no longer like college-1? The issues with enjoyment of college social life impacting the GPA would likely happen wherever the student goes until that student has managed to move his/herself mentally past that stage - i.e. reality hits home at the end of the first year and they buckle down more next year. </p>
<p>Or, is this just a way to try to 'throw away' the first year GPA and start over?</p>
<p>I might suggest coming clean with college 2 about your thinking ask them what your options might be for scenario 1. I had a friend whose son had a very similar experience to scenario 1, he went back for year 2 to this highly selective U and the parents coughed up the money. He could not get back on track, could not find different friends and fell into the same patterns and he finally after year 2 took a year off. Year 4 he went to an entirely different school size-wise and found his niche, continued on with a derivation of his original intended major and he graduated a few weeks ago. He went to college 2 as a later year sophmore so I suspect his GPA was lower than in your scenario 1 as all of his credits for year 1 and year 2 did not transfer. Scenario 2 doesn't make much sense as most schools have class requirements for freshman so why wouldn't you just transfer those classes you "passed" that college 2 will accept. This scenario, too, I think you would need to have to have an explanation of why you didn't meet, what are obviously, your own expectations. This could be a compelling story if you really feel you can "do" college level work compensurate with your high school stats at College 2 and have compelling reasons by College 1 did not work out for you.</p>
<p>usc<em>ucla</em>dad the student still likes college-1, as do the parents. The parents do not make enough to cover the $20,000 that is now missing due to the scholarship going away. The 20,000 question is whether the attitude and habits will change as you suggest at a new college, or even at the same college if new funding is somehow obtained. Much remorse and regret has been expressed, and many tears have been shed over the news of the grades and the scholarship. Very frustrating, very sad.</p>
<p>For me this scenario, having trouble adjusting and/or buckling down, is one that I probably fear second only to one of my kids getting in a serious accident or trouble of some sort. I know my boys and they would feel terrible for having "failed" us and I would feel terrible and sick over their predicament that I can't patch up and make all better. This is definitely a soul searching situation, but in my heart and in my head I know there is no "do over", only picking up and moving forward. Although it may not seem like this now, learning how to "dig deep and dig oneself out of a hole" is really a great life lesson and definitely leads to better times/things. By the way, my friend's son ended up paying for year 3 and 4 at the new college on his own, his year two was a second chance that he didn't grab.</p>
<p>If college 1 is no longer financially feasible, why does the student wish to give up possible transfer credits to college 2? This only extends the costs to complete a degree unnecessarily. Is the student after a 'psychological do-over', or perhaps in need of a high GPA for grad school aspirations? </p>
<p>I understand how upsetting this situation is, especially the loss of scholarships. But the best advice was given above....pick up and move on. If it's going to be college 2, take advantage of any possible transfer credits and take the GPA hit. </p>
<p>Personally, I've been there. Attended a school that was a bad fit, lost all interest in classes, had a mediocre freshman gpa as result. After 3 semesters, I left college 1 and worked for the next year and a half, supporting myself fully. A lot of growing up happened in those 18 months. I transferred taking my miserable transcript with me, made almost all A's in an extremely strenuous accounting program at my college 2. The lesson about lost opportunity stays with me to this very day. If not for that bad first year, I would have graduated summa cum laude. And that lesson is worth FAR more than the 'summa' missing from my diploma.</p>
<p>Do GPA's always transfer? As I recall, both my D and I transfered with higher GPA's, which we lost and had to start over from scratch. So it might be the case that the credits will transfer (though possibly not all, depending on determinations by the transfer school) but the GPA will not.</p>
<p>If college-2 is a competitive school (just more affordable than school-1), then the GPA will make a difference. The situation is still up in the air. No decisions have been made. One thought (the reason for the thread) was that if school-1 didn't work out, "is it possible" to "start over". The answers seem to indicate that, for the most part, it is not possible. Beyond the "is it possible", comes the other angles. Would it be worth doing, assuming it was possible. If the "transfer" GPA prevents college-2 (which the student had already been accepted to during high school senior year, and to which a couple of student's best friends are attending). then the next step is to consider college-3. Again, no decisions have been made, since the grades just were posted a couple of days ago. It just shows how ugly things can get along the way. </p>
<p>One recommendation for others: do not matriculate to a college that requires a minimum gpa to keep a scholarship. Instead, go to college-2, which is more affordable. The reason being, if college-1 does not work out, then you lose your edge from high school (gpa, test scores, letters of rec, etc.), and then you may even losing the chance to attend college-2, and end up settling for college-3 or 4.</p>
<p>The student will be asked to list all colleges/universities he has ever attended (even for just one course). He cannnot omit the year at college #1 without being dishonest on his application. So that is not an option.</p>
<p>When my S transferred, his credits transferred but his GPA did not. Still, when he applies for jobs (as he did this summer for internships), he reports the cumulative GPA from all of his schools (which he obviously has to calculate himself). If he were required to submit transcripts to back up this GPA, he would have to submit one from each school.</p>
<p>It sounds like this kid may be looking to go to an instate public at this point? A school which usually accepts transfers for junior status, who typically have 60~ units? Many schools accept sophomore as well as junior transfers, so 30-40ish credits is a very common number to transfer and go in as a sophomore.</p>
<p>We have talked often in merit-$$ threads of the importance of evaluating the minimum GPA a priori. Some of the requirements are quite stiff (3.5/3.7). I would think hard and long before taking a merit award with that stipulation. However, most kids with merit awards are quite capable of meeting less stiff requirements - my S had to meet a 2.7 (Engineering) and beat it by a mile. The situation you report is that the kid socialized too much, so I think the recommendation to "not matriculate to a college that requires a minimum GPA to keep a scholarship" is way too broad a generalization. Most awards do have a minimum. A kid needs to be on board with that and realize the consequences of choosing not to make the grade. It seems that it was a choice here, not an inability to make the grade. That will usually be the case with someone able to get a $20K merit award - they are likely in the top 10% or better of the incoming class. Ability is not the issue; motivation is.</p>
<p>The motivation issue doesn't seem to have been overcome yet. Notions of trying to erase a year, wondering if college 2 will "find out," statements like college 1 didn't "work out" - all seem to me to be wishing the true issue away. Moving from competitive college #1, where he didn't care to do the work, to competitive college #2 may not be a good plan. Not doing the work is not a good plan there either. Settling for college #3 or #4 (not so competitive and where a 2.5 GPA might not keep him out) might be choosing the right fit for this student. He is letting his lack of motivation trump his ability, so perhaps he will fit better at a school where this will "work out." Sorry to be harsh, but I suggest that a bit of "right thinking" is in order here. </p>
<p>Has the student found out whether his current college allows a grace period and/or reinstatement of the scholarship if appropriate progress is made? I would investigate that.</p>
<p>Is college 1 willing to work with your family at all? What I mean is, can you meet with college officials (fin. aid people, student's advisors, dept. heads - whoever) and try to work out an arrangement? For example, let them know how much graduating from their college means to the student, and that this goal would be impossible without the financial aid. Could an arrangement be set up so that your student attends college 2 (maybe a local state college)for a year with guaranteed acceptance back to college 1 (with reinstatement of scholarship) provided the student maintains a gpa of x at college 2? Offer to have student achieve an even higher gpa than required to keep scholarship at college 1, if that would help. You would think that an educational institution would want to help students dig themselves out of holes like this one. I don't know if schools do things like this, but it would seem like a fair solution to me.</p>
<p>I hadn't finished reading jmmom's post - or maybe it was added in the edit - but I think we may be envisioning a similar possibility, although I think she is suggesting the interim work could be done at college 1, but without the scholarship. That seems like it would be easiest, provided it was affordable for that 1 year (or 1 semester). Has the college stated that the scholarship is not obtainable again at any point in the future?</p>
<p>Pretending that year one at College 1 did not happen teaches the student what? That it is ok to squander an incredible oppportunity? That you don't pay the consequences for your behavior? That you can play college 2? </p>
<p>What do you think the student will do at college 2? </p>
<p>Sorry. As a parent of a NMS who got 0$ because we did not qualify for financial aid, or seeing kids have to select less desirable schools because of not enough aid, or exceptional students not getting into top 20 schools, I guess I am not too sympathetic.</p>
<p>I suggest you meet the financial aid people at college #1 and see if they'll work with you. Often, there are upper-division scholarships within departments and you may be eligible for them in a year (as a junior) so you will only have to figure out how to bridge the next year. You may also be able to find an on-campus job (RA? working in one of the offices?) to help defray costs. </p>
<p>I also suggest you look through your catalog and call the registrar. There may be some sort of "freshman forgiveness" policy that helps you get your gpa up if you stay at college #1. (For ex, classes with grades of D or F can be repeated and the first grade is not computed in gpa.) Sometimes there are limits to freshman forgiveness (must be within 30 credits, limited to repeating 6 credits) but if you choose carefully, you may boost your gpa enough to make you competitive for other scholarships in your dept.</p>
<p>Good ideas 2collegewego. This might teach the student to be more appreciative of the incredible gift given and take some ownership of his college education.</p>
<p>blucroo - i am not asking for your sympathy, or your agreement, but you don't have to be nasty. We all make mistakes. The student needs to own up to the mistakes made at college1 - that is a certainty. Just because your situation didn't work out the way that you wanted - doesn't give you any right to be angry at our questions. You don't think we have enough anger, dissapointment, sorrow, loss, frustration, doubt, confusion, and tears to last a lifetime? Your condescending attitude is not helpful. There were no real plans to pursue the option of "fooling" college-2. Are your harsh comments an indication of how you will feel, and how you will treat your son/daughter when he/she makes a mistake that is a doozy. Have you never made a big mistake?</p>
<p>Whoa there, Clapton-fan. Let's not get snippy. I don't know if that high horse you're riding on suits you.
<p>Then with what y'all are facing, what possible good would it do you to know the answer to this query?
[quote]
Willl College-2 somehow know (find out) that the student went to College-1, and has a GPA of 2.5?
You made it pretty clear what you were seeking IMO. You may regret that there is a time limit to editing but you asked the question. The posters just responded to what you asked. </p>
<p>
[quote]
1) first answer with regards to if it is technically possible.
2)But, can a student even do that?
3)Is it possible?
[/quote]
[quote]
doesn't give you any right to be angry at our questions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't ask for advice on the board expecting folks not to "question the question" especially one about cheating the system all of our kids play by. There was nothing wrong with jmmom's response or blucroo's response. Both were mild IMO. I was choosing to ignore your thread, since you were new ... until your last post forced the issue. ;)</p>
<p>By the way , is it possible that I can claim to be in college if I sign up for Sally Struther's College TV Repair Degree so my%</p>
<p>By the way , is it possible that I can claim to be in college if I sign up for Sally Struther's College TV Repair Degree so my D's med school EFC will be cut in half? Just wondering. </p>
<p>(I have no idea where that part went during the edit process. LOL. Sorry. )</p>