Starting All Over Again... Heh.

College Majors Music Major
1

Many of you were incredibly supportive and helpful with advice during the last application season, when my son–who really only started playing jazz guitar quite recently and has had very little in the way of formal training–was applying to schools for jazz performance. And many of you know that he got in to the New School and (after being waitlisted) SUNY Purchase.

SO, after deciding that Purchase was the place, and paying the deposits, I watched as my son became increasingly anxious and despondent–quite the opposite of the reaction I thought he’d have! I was really getting seriously worried about him.

And then this morning he said that he wanted to show me something. He prefaced that by telling me that he’d figured out why he’s been so incredibly unhappy and anxious about the prospect of going off to Purchase. He’s realized, he said, that what he really wants to do is to study Composition, preferably with an eye to doing film-scoring (and Mezzo’sMama told me a while back that the competition for those things is quite fierce). He wants to study with a teacher for a year, and work on his compositions, and then apply to Berklee, etc.

I’d known that he’d been working on compositions, but he’d never really let me listen to them. This morning he played a few of them for me, and (to my admittedly untrained ear) they were really beautiful. Again, he’s figured all this stuff out on his own–he’s never had a piano lesson in his life, and yet I hear him playing Beethoven sonatas on his keyboard. He also sings beautifully, and he’s been told (not sure if it’s the case) that he has perfect pitch. He does seem to have music running through his veins, although I know that’s true of many, many young performers.

Regardless of the daunting idea of starting the application process over again, in a competitive field, I’ve always been committed to supporting him in what he wants to do, and I believe in his talent and his ability to focus on working on his music (not that he’s particularly focused in some other areas of his life! :slight_smile: ). We applied to schools rather cluelessly and in a scattershot fashion last year; aside from the great advice we got (late in the game) here, we really didn’t know what we were doing or what it takes to get into the really good schools.

So, once again, I’m asking for advice from those who know. Aside from working his butt off and taking lessons with someone who’s really good (we’re in north Florida; he’s gotten some names from friends), what else should he be doing in order to have the best chances in the best Composition programs? What do they look for? And what ARE the best Composition programs (my son has desperately wanted to go to Berklee since all this started, and I know that he’d prefer to be in the northeast)? Any other advice anyone can offer?

(And honestly, my son’s not a flake about this stuff. It’s just that he’s discovered and found ways to develop his talents late in the game, and doesn’t want to waste college on something which, in the end, he doesn’t have much interest in–performance.)

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I definitely didn’t mean to make it sound as if we don’t consider Purchase and the New School “good schools”–we were (before all this happened) ecstatic about his acceptances to both. And he is thinking about re-applying to the New School for Composition.

3

Tell him to go to Purchase and take composition classes along with his other courses. He can easily get as good an undergrad composition education that way as only studying composition. He might even be able to double major. Then he can study comp in grad school, which is the way to go anyway. There is absolutely no reason not to go to Purchase! Tell him he’ll get the best of both worlds. They’ll have recording classes too. He’s already on the right path. No need to change it even if his ultimate goal has changed. He really doesn’t understand how one ends up composing movie scores. Going to Purchase can get him there just as surely as the other ways he imagines.

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Btw Purchase is one of the top composition programs in the country. In many ways more well regarded than Berklee, for contemporary classical although not commercial music. Tell him to stop fretting- he’s already got a great option.

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I wanted to add…if your S is really feeling unsure about things, but is sure he isn’t ready to go to NY next year, maybe you could ask admissions at Purchase if he could defer his enrollment for a year rather than withdraw completely? (BTW, my S’s bass teacher’s son just graduated from Purchase’s studio composition program, and loved his experience and the program!)

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@SpiritManager : I just sent him your responses here. Thank you!

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@indeestudios --That was a possibility he mentioned a few days ago. This is all so new at the moment that I’m not sure exactly what he’s thinking with regard to Purchase right now. A deferral would certainly seem to make sense to me, but I just work here :slight_smile: . (And I got your PM, btw–thank you!)

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My gut reaction is not to pull out of Purchase yet. May is such a time for second guessing and doubts. Your S should understand that. His feelings are not uncommon.

When a lot of uncertainty hits my D I usually try to sit tight to see if it will pass or to see if it’s real. They are young and every move seems to have so much meaning. Is it right? Is it wrong? I’ve tried (somewhat successfully…maybe) to remind her that there is a lot of gray and a lot of good comes from being able to work in the gray areas. There is value in being scrappy and making something out of any situation. It is better than looking for perfection.

I would be sure that Purchase really couldn’t fulfill his composition interests to such a degree that a complete pull out is necessary. He should talk with his teacher about his concerns and learn more about composition at purchase. And trust me many music students lean on their teachers for uncertainties. I often wonder if they have degrees in psychology - I’m sure my Ds teachers do - they seem particularly adept at re-assuring young, anxious artists. He should be totally honest and have a heart to heart with that teacher. He has accepted there and needs open communication with his teacher. It won’t be held against him.

I would just slow things down and have him reach out to Purchase. Then he can make an informed decision.

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Thank you, as always, @bridgenail . I have told him what others have said here, and advised him to wait a bit before doing anything definitive. But I know him well enough to know that when he’s made his mind up for or against something it’s likely that that’s how it will be. Today, when he made his “announcement” to me, it was the first time in weeks that I’ve seen him happy and optimistic–as if an enormous cloud had lifted (without going into too much detail, I’ll just say that there’s a history that makes seeing him like that again an enormous relief–I was really worried for a while). Something got into his head about Purchase (we’ve been discussing it all day); it seems to be a mix of things, some of which is valid and some of which is a little iffy.

I absolutely agree with you that it’s very good to learn to “make something out of any situation.” On the other hand, I’ve learned the hard way that sometimes when I’ve pushed him into things he didn’t want to do, it turned out that he was absolutely right and I should have just let him alone (not always, but enough to make me careful). He’s young, but every so often he reminds me that he can be quite thoughtful and insightful about himself. So at the moment I’m suggesting his options (including Purchase), but otherwise holding off on trying to impose too much influence.

Unfortunately, he doesn’t really have a teacher–just people who have given him a few lessons here and there so far. (That will change if he does, indeed, decide to follow through with his new plan.)

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I think that perhaps one thing he’s thinking about Purchase (and this may or may not be the case) is that he’d rather be at a school at which music is pretty much the only thing around. He’s had SO little opportunity to really work on what he wants to work on–it’s all been what he can fit in on weekends, after school, and the occasional class–that he just wants to immerse himself. I assume that’s possible at Purchase, and I thought it would also be a fun place for him to be and relax a bit after his very conservative high school. But he apparently has no interest in “hanging out” or doing any of the things that I enjoyed so much about college. He’s not a recluse, and he’s very funny and can be a lot of fun, but he just wants to finally be in a place where there are as few distractions as possible. I think he feels that he has a lot of “catching up” to do with his music peers–another reason why he wants to take the year.

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I am PM’ing you. I think your son’s thinking is guided by some misconceptions, and I hope he stays with his plan to attend Purchase this coming year.

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I deleted the above sentence but it somehow got posted and the rest of my message disappeared. Here is the rest of what I had to say and ignore the above, please!

Undergrad composers can follow many paths and still end up in a good grad school, which is almost universally the next step. A BM in performance, a BM in composition, a BA in music, a BA in something else, a double major, a major/minor, a double degree…What he needs for grad school is 3-4 good pieces performed by good musicians. This can be done on the side or as the focus of his time.

Getting to film scoring is a long road, but the presence of film students at Purchase would seem to be an advantage for someone who wants to compose for film.

I think he should talk to Purchase (and the New School?) to see what his opportunities might be in composition at either school. Can he take private lessons? Can he take composition classes? Is there access to film students? Are there opportunities to have works performed, for a student originally accepted for performance? How might he transfer to a composition program? (He will take classes that are also required for composers, no doubt, in theory, music history and so on.)

If he is feeling insecure after being admitted, he may be suffering from “impostor’s syndrome.” Look it up! He may feel unworthy, and think that a year off will help with that. This happens most often I think to kids with less background for whom things come very easily- almost a form of guilt.

But he was admitted to two competitive music programs- he deserves to be there. I would try to address this with him and see what might help him feel adequate for the program.

Does he absolutely love Boston? Berklee and Boston Conservatory recently merged. But both are pricey. Berklee does have some film scoring classes but so do a lot of other schools.

SUNY Purchase is pretty affordable relatively. It is very well thought of in the composition world.

Does your son compose for jazz or for classical ensembles? Mannes is part of the New School as well, and it top notch for classical.

It sounds to me as if he is nervous about the performance program. Does he think composition will be easier? It isn’t! But there is no need to concentrate on a composition major at the undergrad level: he can do many things, and still write music.

He is going to school to learn and the schools think he is up to it. He is not supposed to be a polished professional yet. I hope he can enjoy it.

If there is something else going on, like depression, or anxiety about leaving, then by all means slow down and see if he can get comfy with a course of action, as long as it doesn’t derail him. Sometimes it
is better to stay on the horse, sometimes not.

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@compmom --YES! That’s all so very helpful. And your remark about “impostor’s syndrome” is spot-on (I just didn’t know there was a term for it). I would tell him that the schools would not have admitted him if they didn’t think he has what it takes. And then he would say something like, “But all they heard was that little bit–they don’t know how I really play and how much I don’t know” (I’m paraphrasing, but that’s the gist of it). And I’d respond that they didn’t listen to hours of the other applicants’ playing and then just at the last minute decide to let him attend just for kicks! :slight_smile: But he still keeps saying that he’s “not ready.”

I’m going to send him what you wrote… Thank you so much.

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PM’ing you.

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And I’ve had the same thought about the presence of film majors at Purchase.

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You of course know your kid best. But I wonder if the relief is about not going to school as opposed to changing his focus. He is asking for a gap year but maybe in a round about way. If he’s not going bc of the focus solely I think he’s misunderstanding the breadth of a music program. But if he’s not going bc he’s just not sure or ready yet than that’s fine. Why not take the gap year and get to a more secure place.

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From another thread (Go Forth Journal) with words from an instructor:

“Also, he has seen that there is a huge variety in the blossoming time of musicians, that he has had to take on a student without the ability to read music, who quickly came up to speed in a year and went on to be a professional player.”

Once accepted, your son will receive the nurturing support of teachers. I really think he will feel fine once there. And any music student generally can take composition classes and compose on the side as well.

18

I should have been more clear on something. A few days before yesterday’s Big Announcement, my son did mention that he was thinking about asking to be deferred for a year at Purchase. After that he seemed to think better of that, and seemed to plan on going, even though he seemed to really dread it, and was in a terribly dark mood about it. I was really concerned. And then yesterday, for the first time in weeks, he seemed truly happy about his decision to try to go elsewhere after a year. So yes–taking a gap year is definitely part of what he’s asking for.

So, in spite of what I’ve showed him of what you all have so kindly offered as advice, he just really seems to have decided that he doesn’t want to be at Purchase. He KNOWS that it’s a great school, and was truly surprised when he learned that he’d gotten in (he was even surprised when he passed the pre-screen!), but for whatever reason he just doesn’t want to be there.

So for the time-being I’m just going to wait and see and offer advice if he asks for it, and not try to push in any one direction or another. I’d be thrilled if he ended up deciding to go to Purchase, but in the end the decision ultimately has to be his, because it’s a huge one and after some of the difficult times he’s been through there’s no way I’m going to really push him to do something that he feels will make him very unhappy. I am confident that one way or another he’ll find the right thing to do, and thrive as a musician/composer. I was just very ready for the period of uncertainty to have been over after the application process!! :slight_smile:

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Yup–gotta admit my boy is all over the map at the moment. I just went into his room and he told me that he’d just emailed Purchase to ask about a year’s deferral. I have a feeling that the info that I gave him from all of you last night may have sunken in a bit overnight, and I at least know him well enough to know that if I back off on something sometimes he’ll come to it on his own.

I did suggest that he try to call Doug Munro or someone there to discuss his concerns, as I believe he’d probably reinforce what you have all said about these kinds of misgivings regarding being “ready” and sure of having chosen the “right place,” but I don’t know if he’ll do that. So we’ll see.

Sorry to take up so much space here–I didn’t expect such a college soap opera at this point! :slight_smile:

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I think you are doing a great job in a difficult situation, striking just the right balance- and that is so hard to do. I admire you! I also think your idea of speaking with someone at Purchase is an excellent one and hope he does do it. But your insightfulness, willingness to nudge when it is helpful and stay detached when that is helpful is really going to help your son. He is lucky to have you! Please take up all the space you need here. We’ve all been there one way or the other.