Starting All Over Again

Colleges and Universities A-Z Air Force Academy - Colorado Springs
1

<p>Given my Final Status Notification of Disqualified for History of Mood Disorder, and no granted a waiver because there was someone more competitive than me, its time to start all over again.</p>

<p>My alo actually was quite stunned when i told him, considering on many of composites he saw, i was not only in the range, but i was exceeding the range on most. Even my counselor over at the academy was impressed. I was connected with the person who approves/disapproves REQUESTS for waivers (not actual waivers of course) and she said my ACTs/SATs were too low (27 math, 29 science/ 580 verbal,580 math) and didnt seem to think my other areas helped.</p>

<p>Determined as ever, i have begun the process AGAIN to hopefully received an appointment. I will included my stats at the end of this post. I have to admit, doing things a second time im much more confident in what i am doing. </p>

<p>First of all, i have a question about a principal nomination. I understand that they are those the nomination source (congressional i assume) choose as their “number one.” However, if this is true, and most congress (wo)men only have 1 or 2 slots to fill, only those who received principal nominations will get appointments? If this is the case, getting a regular nomination basically says you are not going? Do you just ask your congress person to consider you for a principal nomination?</p>

<p>There is no way i can put into words how badly i want to go to the academy. It has been my dream since my 7th grade year ever since i heard of it. The structured life, the way the education is delivered, the rediscovering of one self that you cant get at a university. The maturing that occures, the rewards and the service just being to touch off on how badly i want to go.</p>

<p>So i have filled out my PCQ and contact my members of congress, as well as started collecting letters of recommendation. Ive saved copies of everything from last year which i knew was going to be priceless. Ive also registered for ACTs and SATs to take the new ones and raise my score as much as possible. Ive also checked out several practice tests and begun practicing with them (although ive taken the PSATs several times as well as the SATs several times). Ive also taken the recommendation from my counselor to start taking college level couses at our community college which is what i will be doing come fall. I also hope to complete my A+ certification and get a job, all of which i hope will help make me more competitive, as well as reapply i hope makes me more competitive (my alo and counselor said it deffinately does).</p>

<p>Here are my stats:
5.0/5.0 (4.0/4.0 GPA reported by academy)
63/511 (12%) class rank
580 Verbal/580 Math
Head Technician for 2 years in auditorium
National Honor Society
German Honor Society (Delta Epsilon Phi)
German Club Officer for 4 years
German Honor Society Officer 2 years
Tennis for 2 years (non-varsity)
SummeR Tennis League
Volunteer at local church to help with plays technically
Assisted volunteering for Heartland Blood Centers
3 Time Make a Wish Foundation Half Marathoner (100$ raised/year)
Awarded “Fermi-Lab-Science-Award”/Attended Saturday Morning Physics at Fermi-National-Accelerator-Labatory
Computer Consultant for Data Analysis Abbot Labs</p>

<p>Also my alo said i missed a perfect by one point on my interview, giving me one of the highiest scores hes said hes ever given. I seemed to hesitate a bit when asked if i would help my friend on an assignment i shouldnt have (about Not Lying, Cheating, or Stealing or tolerating anyone around us).</p>

2

<p>Sorry to say this, but regardless of your waiver status, 580/580, no Varsity letters, not top 10% of class, means your chances of an appointment would be very slim anyway.</p>

<p>Other factors that might have weighed negatively but not reported by you: difficulty of coursework; PAE; ALO interview; region/state/district.</p>

<p>Not all congressmen use the "principal" nominee method. There are plenty of threads here that describe the 3 options they have. Short version: 1 principal and 9 ordered alts; 1 p and 9 unordered alts; 10 unordered noms. The Academy only has to pick the principal if the p is qualified. Also multiple alts can get in to fill a class.</p>

<p>Sorry for your bad news. Good luck with next year. Another alternative is to enlist in the AF and apply that way. About 100 airmen per year get in that way through the prep school.</p>

3

<p>Thats the problem with class rankings. While a person from a very competitve school (such as ours state wide ranking) can have a 4.0/4.0 GPA and be out of 10% range while a less competitive school can have a person with <4.0 GPA and be in top 10%.</p>

<p>My ALO and counselor said no varisites lowered my athletic composite by performing above average on all my PAE's kept it well within range.</p>

<p>Classes taken:</p>

<p>Algebra 1 (Jr. High)
Geometry Honors
Algebra 2 Honors
Precalc Honors
World History AP
US History AP
Calculus AP (BC)
Physics AP
German 1 and 2
German 3 and 4 Honors
World Geography (Yeah i know, a regular level course)
English 1-3 Honors
English 4 AP</p>

<p>ALO Interview; Stated in previous post.</p>

<p>SATs/ACTs: Stated in previous post.</p>

<p>Thanks for your input on nominations, that explains it alot actually. I would be curious to find out how my MOC orders his candidates.</p>

4

<p>"Thats the problem with class rankings. While a person from a very competitve school (such as ours state wide ranking) can have a 4.0/4.0 GPA and be out of 10% range while a less competitive school can have a person with <4.0 GPA and be in top 10%."</p>

<p>Folks, you hear that theme consistently throughout the threads for all the academies and you need to face some sort of reality. EVERYONE thinks their school is "competitive" and therefore that must be the reason their class rank is not. But if you take the example above and see a student pops a perfect GPA without even cracking the top 10% in class ranking we can assume that perhaps things aren't as competitive there as we might think. This is the issue that pops up so often with grade inflation and the fact that if a school considers itself "competitive" it may somehow think it's students do not need to compete with each other! It's tough to take but something is "out of kilter". Obviously a 4.0/5.0 does not hold much weight in the area of "competitiveness" if over 12% of the students in a school are hitting those marks!<br>
Good luck!</p>

5

<p>Good point, Shogun. Something else folks need to realize is that the academies (and probably most competitive schools) have info on high schools. They know what the median and one-sigma SAT scores are from each school, the percentage that go to 4-year schools each year, etc. They even track how cadets from specific schools have done historically at USAFA. In the world of grade inflation, gpa is almost meaningless without the context of standardized test scores and historical performance after HS.</p>

<p>I don't mean to pick on snipper here, but I would be interested to see how your AP Calc tests come out. Taking AP Calc BC is great, but (for example) I would expect someone enrolled in that class to score MUCH higher on Math (>650 at least).</p>

<p>Snipper: how many national merit semi-finalists are in your graduating class this year? do you have past results from previous classes on AP tests?</p>

<p>Lots of this data are used to just the real "competitiveness" of schools. I know of public (non-magnet, too) schools with 7-10 national merit semifinalists each year, where more than a dozen kids score eithe 4 or 5 on the AP Calc AND AP Physics exams, where 90%+ go on to 4-year schools. THAT'S a competitive school.</p>

<p>Another note: there's little or no grade inflation at USAFA, regardless of how well you did in HS. The average freshman's gpa is in the 2.5-2.7 range and the overall cadet average is only 2.8-->that's pretty tough when you look at the incoming stats, and can be a difficult adjustment for new cadets.</p>

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<p>Dont worry; i didnt come here expecting sympathy, i came seeking advice and real opinions; all of which i got </p>

<p>so your telling me my chances are very slim</p>

<p>really didnt come much as a shock top me. Just curious, are you like an alo, board member or counselor at a service academy?</p>

<p>Well in our Calc BC class, we only have one teacher and in the past 15 years no one has scored a C or lower... that is those who MADE it to the AP exam. Our AP teacher for calc has around a 50% drop out rate and having been recognized by the AP committe for turning out the some of the highest grades, surviving to the AP exam (2 weeks) was a goal in itself.</p>

<p>As far as NMSQ semi-finalists, i dont know the answer, i know there were several pictures of finalists posted near our guidence counselors office but im not sure.</p>

<p>However, based on your input, looks like a state university for me. While form 036-ing it may be giving up, facing the inevitability is required.</p>

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<p>I wasn't aware the AP exams were given letter grades. I thought it was numbered 1-5? I must be getting old!</p>

8

<p>Yeah sorry i meant numbers. A - 5, B -4, C -3 , D -2 </p>

<p>Just got off the phone with my alo (i said that i gave him a week with me not calling him everyother day with something or another, he laughed ) and deffinately said i should try again and that i should be competitive again and that highier ACTs/SATs and work experience will help. He said if i score like i did last time on my PAE will be okay, but i should deffinately score highier if possible. I can easily do over the minimums and the only one i score the average is the basketball throw, all others i score above average. He said that helps compensate non-varsity athletic participation.</p>

<p>Also he strongly encouraged getting highier SATs/ACTs which was a given from the start. I find myself having difficulty with standardized tests as im a slow test taker but thats no excuse and im going to have to do better. My goal is a 650 math/620 verbal but any highier i'll be happy. I also want to get my ACTs into the 30s. I will be taking some practice tests with some one to one tutoring to help me better attck problems.</p>

9

<p>Snipper: none of the above.</p>

<p>Thanks for the added info on your HS program. No score lower than a 4 on the AP Calc BC exam in over 15 years? That's remarkable--beyond remarkable, really. How many are taking the test this year?
Have received scores from any AP tests you took last year?</p>

<p>Another point: USAFA is not big on accepting AP credit anyway. You still have to take placement exams when you report and those are weighted very heavily. Example: One kid I knew took 9 AP courses and scored 3 or higher in all of them (had four 5's and several 4's). After placement exams, USAFA gave credit for 2 semesters each of Calc and Physics (12 hours). Another kid took 7 AP courses (no Calc BC or Calc-based Physics, lots of history) and went to a very reputable state university. The result? 27 hours of credit. He started out as a sophomore and will graduate easily in 3 years.</p>

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<p>Yeah ive noted that about AFA's AP, even my alo said alot of people even wtih acceptable AP credit take tests and some classes. The only AP i took last year was USAP and i got a 4 on that so i will have to take it again, but tits good preperation.</p>

<p>Ive just completed registration for ACTs and SATs and will be doing alot of praciticing for them. Im even taking a standby test in may just so im still in the swing of things and my brain is in gear.</p>

<p>Mr.Cozzi really is amazing. His tests are really unbearable and you can easily spot a calc BC student after a test by their limp, after getting their asses severely whoped. Which explains why 50% drop the class and those that DO make it to the APs, are the elitests :-P. I think 20 will be taking the test this year... 50 Enrolled at the begining of the year.</p>

<p>I will be taking at a community college Multi-vard calc, Chem, Physics (depends on how i do in Physics AP), and an english class. Depending on the hourage of that i may take another cause as recommended, i want to really fill it up, but avoiding burnout.</p>

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<p>I'm in the same boat as you are. I was medically disqualified because of ADD this year (it's resolved now and this summer we'll make sure I'm fine medically for the academies, I had to be off medicine for a year, and I would have been off of it for 11 months this time around).</p>

<p>My stats:
3.5 GPA, mostly honors classes
670 M/660 V/660 W (1330 or 1990, depending on what scale)
26 M/27 S/32 R/31 E
- Eagle Scout, Senior Patrol Leader, Junior Assistant Scoutmaster, Assistant Scoutmaster
- Band President, Band Junior Representative
- Model UN President (and founding member)
- Youth Group: May 2001-present
- BGHS German Club: August 2002-present
- BGHS Symphony Orchestra: Spring 2003 and Spring 2004
- BGHS Outsider's Club: Spring 2004-present (Founding member)
- BGHS Student Activities Board: June 7th, 2004-present
- All As on a semester of college classes taken at the local state university
- Studied abroad in Austria last summer for three weeks
- Planned and executed weeklong Scouting trip to the Smokies
- Boys State Senator
- Meals on Wheels volunteer
- Vacation Bible School volunteer
- Worked at a Cub Scout Day Camp</p>

<p>I also had great recommendations from not only my teachers but two USAFA grads. I can also obtain a presidential nomination and I plan on doing so again this year. I currently live in Northwest Ohio and the competition isn't too fierce.</p>

<p>I'm currently planning to attend Dickinson College next year and join their ROTC program. I've heard great things about both the college and their ROTC program. Dickinson is in Carlisle, which is the same town as the Army War College, so I'm guessing they get access to some nice facilities there. I'm also going to Philmont Scout Reservation for two weeks this summer and I'm desperatly looking into studying abroad in Japan for a couple of weeks. I plan on getting involved in a number of activities once I get to Dickinson, but I was wondering what specifically I should be aiming for in terms of extracirriculars to help me gain admission to a service academy for the class of 2010. I know I lack that all-important varsity letter, but being in shape is not a problem (I passed the PAE this year with no real problem). I plan on re-taking the SATs and ACTs. I also know that maintaining a great GPA is also key to admission. So what should be I do once I get to Dickinson that I haven't already thought of? How would my chances had been had I not had my medical problem?</p>

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<p>skirbyy:</p>

<p>A key issue is weak athletic record (no varsity letter)--I believe the vast majority of appointments go to folks with at least 1 varsity letter. The varsity letter isn't so much to show one is "in shape" (the PAE does that already to a great extent) but to show that a candidate can juggle the demands of balancing a good (if not superior) academic record AND the demands of participating in a varsity team sport with all of it's practices and competition time. It's a good indicator of success in an academy where you WILL have to balance a number of stressful and challenging situations to survive.</p>

13

<p>Shogun's "on point" here. It also indicates a level of competitiveness that's good to have at a place as competitive as USAFA. don't kid yourselves, either. Athletic prowess is important in the Real Air Force, too. Whether it's golf, basketball, volleyball, running, or something else, the lieutenant that carries his/her squadron intramural team to victory while excelling in her/his primary job is noticed quickly and highly valued...</p>

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<p>I agree with your views on varsity letters, but your arguement works just as well for full time consuming ECAs, in my case Technical Theatre. With 3 shows a year plus studio black box shows (2 or 3) as Head Technician for 2 years and technician for first 2, the thought of a sport isnt even comprehendable. Just time, its physically (IE, i cant be running a show AND track at the same time ) impossible, without forgetting school work. This is something my alo constantly reminded me of when i said "should i even try if i didnt get a varsity letter?" If you have a full after school life filled with leadership positions, it shows that you have the ability to lead AND "juggle the demands" with not only rehersals but actual performances (practices and competitions... for sports.) And i hope no one says "technical theatre" doesnt have its extremely stressfull times. Most of the time during the year (minus the 1 week turn around time inbetween shows) we work till 8 on week nights and 10 or 11 on weekends (fridays/saturdays). Noting that when i leave, our gym is locked up tight on most evenings...</p>

<p>I think skirbyy and i are in the same boat, having a full load of ECAs that are full year time consuming DO carry power that can outweigh a lower physical composite. Performing well on the PAE also shows that you keep yourself in shape as much as one who is in sports.</p>

<p>Now i am speaking as a rejected candidate so i am sure there will be those who strongly disagree and state my opinions carry no weight. I am just saying that there are many other ways to show competitiveness than sports. </p>

<p>I think if i tried for a varsity sport i know i would of lost my position of head technician, something i value far more than sports cause i think it caries more weight.</p>

<p>Best of luck skirbyy</p>

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<p>Curious regarding the value of a varsity sport verses someone who isn't varsity. Heres the situation I'm in...my year is a phenomenon distance running wise. In cross country, we easily won the state meet this year and should easily take it next year. In track, almost all the distance events are won by our school. I sit at #8 on the cross country squad. If your farmilliar with the sport...7 run varsity. You'd think I'd be able to move up next year...but the problem is that everyone above me is a junior. Our coach always calculates where we are vs. the varsity cross country runners of other schools, and I could easily be running varsity almost anywhere else in the state. So what can I do about this application wise to USAFA. I'd like to think I could move up next year, but it's highly unlikely. Everybody on that squad is running 40+ miles in their summer down weeks. I'm technically JV, yet I do 100 percent of what those guys do, and can post "varsity" times anywhere else in the state. I know the lack of a varsity letter is going to look very bad on my resume...how much do you think this will affect my chances?</p>

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<p>My son was in a similar position wrt basketball. As a sophomore, he realized he was the "seventh" man on the team, and would see little playing time. He switched sports! He lettered in his new sport, and was elected captain in his senior year.</p>

<p>Do you have a regional running club? Do you compete in the local 5k and similar running competitions? If you are "married" to this sport, then you must find other venues in which to compete. Thus, you could state "placed 4th in the 5k Shamrock run" or similar. Our area has a number of competitions during the year, and runners are grouped by age bracket. Check it out.</p>

<p>Best of Luck
CM</p>

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<p>falconhopeful6: I think you'll be okay. Showing on your app that you've done XC for 4 years is as good as a Varsity letter, especially if you wirte that you were on a team that won State. My son was a perpetual JV, too, getting his letter as a senior, but it's as much the participation and "stick-to-it-iveness" that counts.</p>

<p>Another reason that I think HS sports count more than many ICs is that sports are more recognizable and quantifiable. There are so many ECs that could be bogus or inflated or non-standardized that schools look at the reliable activities: Boy's State, Student Gov't/Pres, Eagle Scoutn, etc. Saying you were in some clubs shows that your active but we all know that the level of participation (even if you're president of the club) can be lots or next to zero. By all means, participate in ECs, but it will help you more if there's something quantifiable and standardized about your efforts. In sports, that's a lot easier to judge. In something like track, where it's even easier to quantify (times, places, etc as opposed to politics sometimes of being a starter in bball or fb) it's even easier.</p>

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<p>DocFrance: I was just going to post about the quantitative part of a varsity sport. I sit on a scholarship committee and it is amazing to me the vast differences in grades of kids who are pretty closely qualified. One school's A is another school's B etc. ECs are great, but are they all-encompassing or are they a "show up for the yearbook picture" kind of thing. It is impossible to know when you are glancing over all the stats. The one equalizer is varsity sports. Regardless of what class, state or school one goes to, Varsity basketball (for example) still entails about the same amount of commitment. (practice every day, games a couple times per week, season the same amount of time). Looking at the OP's post, three things jump out at me: 1. SATs (discussed to death) 2. Varsity Sports 3. Nothing unique or outstanding in the rest of your stats. I don't say this to be mean, but you have to find a way to distinguish yourself among a very talented group of applicants. Nothing exciting combined with some weak areas and you know the result. Work on those SATs, take a course, keep your grades up and join some sporting clubs if need be. Best of luck to you.
NAPS05mom (the Navy board is a little slow today. LOL)</p>

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<p>I agree with docfrance on the above. With sports, generally there are set and are usually universal accross the board. While as someone else said, ECs either you participate in greatly or just show up for year book.</p>

<p>However based on the input here i am going to discuss with my alo about form 36ing it because the generall concensious here is while i am qualified, i certainly wount be competitive which given the years and time planning, thinking and praying about is an extremely hard decision but one that realization needs to be.</p>

<p>As far as standing out, i dont know what else there is. I mean next to the awards which i know most have same amount or more, Head Technician and hired electrician for our school and consultant for a big time drug corperation i dont know what else there is. I cant tell you how depressing this is, having spent your entire life since 7th grade thinking about something, planning everything you do thinking "how will this effect me getting into the academ?" I just dont know what to say or do. Is it really worth trying again? I dont see any harm other than the same personal set back but if its already fortold, as most of you have done so, whats the point? I just wish i wasnt staying at school till 1030, 11 oclock each night so i had a chance to call my alo. </p>

<p>Like i said, form 36ing it may be giving up but its a reality the last few weeks has made me realized may be needed...</p>