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Nothing to add to the thoughts of the above well-informed posters, but a question - if she really won't won't won't take the SATIIs, how many of the most selectives does that let out?
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<p>Not many, really. My son applied to Yale, Stanford, Brown, Cornell, JHU, WashU, and Duke, and the only one of those which wanted SAT II scores was Cornell. He was really resistant to taking them also, though he eventually did. His stats were quite similar to mudgie's, a 34 ACT and a 1460 SAT I, with a very interesting hook (long-standing passion in epidemiology/infectious diseases that was well documented) and was also from a pretty rural area. Though he was accepted with EXTREMELY nice merit aid/finaid offers some places, he was outright rejected by one which seemed like a pretty strong chance (Cornell) and waitlisted by two others (WashU and Brown). I am of the opinion that WashU tends to waitlist candidates as strong as mudgie unless VERY keen interest is shown by way of visits, etc. Otherwise, they seem to assume that the the very high-scoring applicant is using it as a relative safety and will choose something else given the chance. Just our experience and the experience of the other couple of strong applicants at our school who were also waitlisted. ~berurah</p>
<p>Curmudgeon,
I'll jump on board and plug my kid's school as well (Williams). You won't find a better D3 program anywhere (don't think the women's b-ball team has been as good as the men's team recently, but still quite good). Sciences in general, and biology in particular are excellent. Roughly 10% of students are bio majors. Dean of the College is also a bio professor, and pre-med advisor. Concentration in neuroscience is available, as are concentrations in molecular biology and biochemistry. Upper-level courses tend to be Oxford-style tutorials....two students, one professor.</p>
<p>They like getting folks from out west a lot. They especially like getting folks from out west who are super-smart jocks/jockettes. It's rural, so there are plenty of cattle herds around if'n she should get a hankerin for a little steer-wrestling...including one that has a gen-u-ine Texas Longhorn (no kidding....I almost drove off the road when I saw that guy.)</p>
<p>I have to completely disagree with Jim as to his belief that large universities offer more/better research opportunities for undergrads than LACs. Wrong, wrong, wrong. There are exceptions (Princeton), but if you think your kid is going to get to play with the particle accelerator or the confocal microscopes at Major Research University you're likely to be disappointed--grad students take precedence. I say this as the parent of a major science-babe who wanted research opportunities, and is getting them in spades--including paid research projects in the summer.</p>
<p>Everyone is going to recommend their favorite school, because with your D's stats and background it looks like she would get in anywhere. The neuroscience thing was news to me, so at least check out UW's program, even tho a large state university does not meet many of her criteria, I am not convinced she really knows what she really wants. Anyway, check it out:</p>
<p>my S is a freshman at WUSTL and he was in contact via email with a prof last spring regarding his interests/research. This prof met with my S a few weeks into his first semester this Fall. He asked my S to read a paper that he (the prof) had cowritten with another guy. He then said, once my S has read and digested the paper, they would get together as a group (my S, the 2 writers and a soph with interests in the area also) and they would all 4 brainstorm ways to test their ideas in the lab. They would then go forward with some of them. Cool huh? This opportunity as a freshman! SO, I can vouch for research opps as a freshman at WASHU!</p>
<p>If she is really, really interested in UG research, let me suggest one more approach, assuming that she is fairly focused on what type of research she wants to do: In the field of interest, find out one or more large conferences in that area and get the latest proceedings. Just as an example, if she were interested in a particular field of Geology, she'd track down this past year's proceedings of the Geological Society of America meeting. A gazillion papers were presented in about a billion separate subject areas and just about ANYONE doing geology research would be presenting there. Once you have the proceedings, choose the subject areas (sessions) that most interest her, find out who's presenting interesting research, find out where they're from (if from a college or university), and contact them directly. In the contact (emails are usually provided in the proceedings), let them know where you saw their paper and your interest, ask about the opportunities for getting involved in that area, and start following some of those college links.</p>
<p>Also, there's another step: intersect these schools with merit scholarship requirements and with the athletic opportunities (and size, location, etc), and you'll get a fairly decent list based on exact interest matches with the research.</p>
<p>It's rare for a faculty member to get a contact about a recent paper from a HS student, and it makes quite an impression (with the underlying assumption that the interest is real). Combined with the stats you've given, this could lead to real recruitment.</p>
<p>My son did not go this route, but I am totally convinced that early faculty contact, his intense interest in the subject matter, and his great stats led to the school going into recruitment mode to get him. 'Twas a nice thing... and the merit money made it even better.</p>
<p>Gee. This is a might overwhelming. Plenty here for a full night of research.</p>
<p>Just a few quick comments-</p>
<p>Doddsdad, Centre didn't go anywhere. Why would a top 50 LAC that she might can play for leave her list? We're still looking good for parent's weekend.;)</p>
<p>Momofthree, yes. D is a Bellingrath nominee at Rhodes.</p>
<p>Everybody,yes. D is a Danforth nominee at WashU.</p>
<p>Huskem, Nescac all the way.</p>
<p>Everybody, D did take the New SAT 1, and the ACT was with writing. Only the MC was available for viewing. Watch her make a 2 on the essay.</p>
<p>And to cangel and alu. I'm trying. Lord, knows I'm trying.</p>
<p>I took D to lunch after she had her braces off-carolyn, she looks great! Her mood was quite a bit better than it has been. Maybe it can be sustained long enough to actually finish an essay. </p>
<p>Thank all of you so much for your overly kind words. I am proud of her , even though I know that one test doesn't mean much. It's still nice to see her get some recognition as a top student. At the very least, she'll be more competitive at the schools she has already targeted.</p>
<p>Y'all have certainly come up with a much more elaborate list than she and I had brainstormed over lunch. Thanks again for the sage counsel , and if any of y'all need any advice on fixing a Harley or overseeding a winter pasture-I'll return the favor.;)</p>
<p>I took D to lunch after she had her braces off-carolyn, she looks great!</p>
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<p>This is the best news yet! I'll let my daughter know the update, although her orthodontist says she'll be lucky to get her braces off in time for prom. I'll just be happy if they're off before she goes to college as I'd hate to have to find an orthodontist half way across the country. :)</p>
<p>Don't worry, Cur. I have a strong feeling that things are going to work out very well for your daughter. Trust in the process, and a few prayers wouldn't hurt either. :)</p>
<p>I invite you to read my post again. Reading it again might help you calm down
and understand what I wrote. </p>
<p>Speaking about personal attacks, I did not call you outdated. I pointed out that your information was outdated. I think it was appropriate to correct your recommendation to Cur's daughter to take the "SAT2" Writing as she would need 3 Subject Tests at the schools you recommended. I also take good note that you had to question the time I spend on this board and seems to consider it as a distraction from, maybe, a research project. I guess I better find a subject that would allow me to combine both activities, or maybe I did!</p>
<p>It is obvious that you view anyone who does not share your views on the differences between smaller and larger state schools as resorting to mere personal attacks. In my post, I did not say that larger schools are not adequate for undergraduate. I did, however, pointed out that smaller schools and LAC's CAN and DO provide the same opprotunities. A fact that you are convinced is UNTRUE. Your statement was unambiguous: "I will maintain, again, that the schools that will have the type of program in which she's interested, and that will afford her research opportunities as an undergraduate, will not be those small schools with less than 2,000 students." </p>
<p>I am happy to recognize that research opportunities are available at larger schools. Why are you remaining unwilling to accept that they exist elsewhere?</p>
<p>I have absolutely nothing against large or medium schools. The fact that I applied to a single LAC and several larger school should be a clear indication that I would have happily joined a larger school. I made my final decision based on how the schools fitted my criteria, not according to a general consensus. I do not doubt that I could have had a superb education at our State school, but it would have been different. This is not a matter of which system is better, but a matter of how the system fits the individual better. Again, I am happy to recognize the merits of different schools. Why are you unwilling to do the same? </p>
<p>None of us can make the decision for the Cur family. I do, however, believe that it is not appropriate to intimate that the selection of a smaller school would be a mistake. And lastly, I believe that Cur indicated a score above 2100 ... that ought to have been a "new" SAT.</p>
<p>If your daughter is potentially interested in MIT, I have a friend who I'm sure would love to talk to her -- a biology major from Texas who's applying for MD/PhD programs this fall and who's done tons of research here at MIT. She's a volleyball player, not bball, but hopefully that's ok. :)</p>
<p>I suppose I could also present useful info, as a double major in biology and neuroscience who's done quite a bit of research (potentially getting published this spring!)... but my friend sprang to mind because she's from Texas and because of the MD/PhD thing -- I'm only in it for the PhD.</p>
<p>Re: MIT undergraduate research -- it's ridiculously easy to get involved, even on major projects with famous PIs -- undergrad researchers are cheaper than grad students! Also, D wouldn't need to take the SATI over, as MIT looks at "whichever scores present the applicant in the best light".</p>
<p>Williams stands out as the obvious choice; would seem to have everything, including a strong sports program. Haven't read all the posts on this thread but have always assumed it was on the list.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I hope that Williams is still on your daughter's list. I just had the privilege to spend a few days on campus visiting my son, meeting his friends and generally lurking around and soaking up academia and mountain scenery and I can tell you this is a wonderful place full of happy and energetic kids! Many of my son's friends are involved in the sciences, with both premed and research aspirations, in music, in athletics – they all seem to be doing a zillion activities simultaneously. The level of sophistication and intellectual vibrancy of the conversation at the dinner table took my breath away. The kids seem to fit your description of your daughter: “politically fairly liberal but on a personal, social level is conservative (dress , style, dating, substances).” </p>
<p>PS to Driver, I saw that longhorn. Being somewhat cattle-challenged I didn’t appreciate its significance until you mentioned it. :)</p>
<p>OMG!!! I am lucky nobody actually READS my posts!! :lol: Unfortunately I can't edit my earlier post. Did anybody check the link I posted???? wondered why I posted a link to a corvette restoration book... how strange! </p>
<p>The link I was trying to post was this one:</p>
<p>One of my son's interests was neuroscience - of the schools we looked at that might suit your daugher were Bowdoin (hard to get to but idyllic) and Brandeis (offered son merit rather than finaid 'cause it was better). </p>
<p>I second the suggestion of MIT - with the caveat that your D visit (if possible) before applying. She will have an option, one way or the other!</p>