<p>My child is is a sophomore at a highly competitive school in California. We are not very ambitious and want to apply to the engineering at UCs.
Is it better to do honors classes(though unweighted) and AP classes and manage a B or
take easy course load and get As.</p>
<p>Does the strength of the schedule matter? Does anyone know the admittance GPAs for the engineering schools of UC's(UCLA, UCSD, Davis, Santa Cruz etc..)</p>
<p>Any suggestions as to what should the course outline be like in 11th grade?</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about the admissions standards for UC engineering schools, but I am curious as to why you assume the student would not be able to get an A in an Honors or AP class? Obviously, that would be the best scenario if it were possible, and thus, the preferable way to go. </p>
<p>It can also be a major pitfall going into a lower level class assuming an easy A only to find out that such a result is less than automatic. You might also be selling short the benefits of taking the higher level class. For example, the higher level classes in many schools are taught by the most competent and experienced teachers, which, in some ways, actually makes the class easier despite being more advanced. Conversely, If your kid gets stuck with an incompetent or inexperienced teacher in a lower level class there could be all sorts of downsides to that scenario you aren’t anticipating. You have to be very careful with your assumptions. The quality of the person teaching my be far more meaningful than the level at which the class is being taught. </p>
<p>Generally speaking, colleges say they want to see a student take the most rigorous level they can handle. And that’s true up to a point. For example, I don’t think there is much of an admissions penalty if a student gets a B in an AP class in lieu of an A in a regular level class. AdComs generally accept the difference in rigor in that type of situation. Thus, I’d go with the AP class and try to get an A, but be able to live with a B if it goes that way. Plus, if it’s weighted, the B won’t hurt the GPA. However, there is almost no extension of grace if the AP grade falls to a C. So if that’s in anyway likely, it would be best to go with something else where a higher grade can be earned. </p>
<p>That’s the thought process we took and it worked out very well. However, I’m going to qualify it by saying the above is just my two cents. Your situation might be a little different given the nature of your specific objectives and school system. Some added due dilligence might be in order for you to make the most informed decision.</p>
<p>I wonder if you want reexamine that “not very ambitious” scenario, since you are asking these questions of a sophomore who is in a very competitive school, which you mention.</p>
<p>First of all, it is your child, not you, doing the HS work and applying to colleges. What does this child want? Never sell your child short- let him/her always take on any academic challenges they wish to. </p>
<p>Here in Wisconsin, and I’m sure in many places, they don’t use weighted grades but do consider course rigor. Getting stellar grades/taking top courses doesn’t mean a student needs to aim for the most rigorous state school. A year from now your child may want to apply to more “ambitious” schools than you are envisioning now. Your child won’t have regrets with a better foundation for any college. What does his HS counselor suggest? A parent can derail opportunities for a child by assuming they should not aim high. YOU may think your child will want to be an engineer. The child may discover a major you never thought of once they head off to college. </p>
<p>As in an above post, never think the regular version of a course will mean an easier course or a better grade. Your child must be a new sophomore. Too soon to know which CA colleges will be a best fit. Some students blossom after a more mundane freshman experience, especially maturing boys. Get the input of the HS guidance counselor for courses to take- they know your student, at least by classes taken and grades received from known teachers, and know the classes and teachers at the HS. You don’t know that the schools you mention have a lot of students who took the AP classes and got As and Bs in them.</p>
<p>This is the time of your child’s life for him/her to reach for the stars- s/he may have to settle for the moon, but you don’t want him/her planetbound when more could be achieved if you as parents limited possibilities for a gpa. Students who are bored are more likely to not put in the effort to get the A.</p>
<p>My child is very laid back, not very motivated to do the work that is required. He had all honors in 9th grade and the GPA was very low. Not very intereted in working hard. I would like him to have a decent GPA this year.
What would engineering schools prefer? Advance classes in sciences, does AP English also plays a huge role?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, he is the one that needs to do the work. What does HE want? Is he really interested in being an engineer? If he is not interested, it doesn’t matter how easy the class is (or is not), he can find a way to get a mediocre grade.</p>
<p>Yeah tugogi, given your clarification of the situation I’m not sure picking the right classes is the primary concern. Sounds like the real issue right now is motivation. And if that continues to be a problem, engineering is going to be a longshot.</p>
<p>For UC and CSU admission purposes, up to 8 semesters of honors, AP, and college courses meeting the a-g subject requirements taken in 10th and 11th grade are given +1 weight in GPA calculations. So, within the limitations, a B in an honors course counts the same as an A in a non-honors course for UC and CSU admission.</p>
<p>In general, it is better for a capable student to do honors courses over the regular versions of the courses*, as these will be stronger preparation for university level work. On the other hand, if the student is not motivated to do the work, honors versus non-honors is the least of the problems.</p>
<ul>
<li>Yes, in all core academic subjects, from math and science to English and history.</li>
</ul>
<p>Admission to the UCs is very competetive - especially for engineering where the admission stats criteria can be higher than for the U in general (depending on the particular U). The engineering majors at the UCs are very rigorous - not a place for a someone who’s not ambitious and who’s not willing to work hard.</p>
<p>To answer your question, if your S truly wants to pursue engineering at the UCs he should understand that it’ll take work and therefore he needs to apply himself now and going forward. The GPA the UCs will look at for admission are from grades 10/11 so he needs to do well this year and next assuming he’s an entering Sophomore. I’ve heard admissions people state they’d rather see someone earn a B in an AP course than an A in the non-AP equivalent since it shows they challenged themselves and were willing to tackle the work. In reality, a B in a weighted AP course is the same as an A in a non-weighted non-AP course (however, there’s a cap on the number of courses the UC will weight when the UC calculates the GPA).</p>
<p>The UCs will look at a number of criteria including the weighted (UC calculated) GPA, SAT/ACT scores, courses taken, ECs, and some other criteria.</p>
<p>Engineering courses in the UC system are tough. Even students who have excelled in strong science and math classes in high school (and plenty of them) find the engineering course load to be a challenging one. I know that there are a few more hands-on, project-oriented engineering programs out there that might be a better fit for students who don’t enter with the strongest preparation, but I’m not sure that the UC campuses have many (or any) programs like that.</p>
<p>Engineering courses at the UC and most colleges are very tough even for the motivated. If he isn’t motivated in high school, what will change in college? I believe he has to address his motivation issue first and the sooner the better.</p>
<p>Top tier colleges make a big deal about strength of schedule, so go with the AP classes. Also, if you want to go into enigneering, the AP science classes (physics and chemistry) are calculus based while the non-AP classes are not. A better understanding of the subject matter is made with the calculus based class. You definitely put yourself at a disadvantage with the non-AP class.</p>
<p>Of course the standard response to this question isn’t whether to get an A in a non-AP class or a B in an AP class but the colleges are looking for those that get the A’s in the AP classes.</p>
<p>An unmotivated child won’t do the work in an easy class either. Perhaps your child isn’t motivated because he is bored. Let him be challenged and he may be more motivated to do the work. WHO wants him to study engineering? You, the parent? Unless that is HIS goal he will find a way to not be eligible for it. A sure way to make him an underachiever is to emphasize the work and grades he needs to get into a good engineering school. Not every smart person is suited to an engineering style. A love and ability in math and science may be better pursued in the pure sciences for some. My gifted son is no engineer- not interested in the hands on, practical. He often chose to not do work (got a 5 on the AP Chemistry exam the semester he got a C in the course- he had senioritis and ended his HS years with a whimper, not a bang).</p>
<p>It sounds like you need to find out how to motivate your child to perform up to his ability. Do not pressure him with threats of a career he may not want. If he is the one who wants to be an engineer point out how doing well in the top classes (the word rigorous will scare him) is the best way to get into ANY school for engineering. If something else find out what it is and tell him how good grades in top will help him get what he wants. You may want his HS guidance counselor to talk about things if he resists what his parents try to tell him. You may also want to talk to the HS GC yourself about how to motivate your child.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for all the responses. The child is not sure what he wants. He wants to go to a good school with as little effort as possible.</p>
This is somewhat oxymoronic. You need to ask - what’s the point in going to a ‘good school’ if he’s not willing to put in any effort? </p>
<p>Again, if he’s not willing to put in a lot of effort he should forget about pursuing engineering - especially at some of the schools you mentioned but if he slacks in HS this year and next he doesn’t have much of a chance of being accepted to the more selective colleges anyway.</p>
<p>The year’s just beginning so he can still do very well if he wants to. Now’s the time for him to decide.</p>
<p>Perhaps a college visit or 2 might spark more motivation of what it takes to go to a good school. I think for many kids the whole college search thing isn’t very real. See if you can get a visit in the engineering dept, I know Cal poly SLO has engineering students help with tours, then he can see solid examples of what is ahead and hear college students discuss what they are working on.</p>
<p>The student is a sophomore? Hard to say what the next couple years will hold. I used the rule of thumb with my laid back #1 to tell him to take the hardest classes he thought he could handle and aim for a B or better and pass the AP tests. He would always prefer to take easier classes and excel than take harder classes and work harder while in high school and like someone said an easy class is no guarantee of an A, teachers can be brutal if they think a student is skating. However with my son, pushing himself, having to dig himself out of a hole now and then in high school paid off when he went to college. He did not have huge adjustment issues and is now graduated. His college GPA was better than his high school GPA. I’m sure it could have nicked him in college admissions if he were “into” being competitive about acceptances, but ultimately he chose his colleges and was accepted to the ones where he applied with nice merit money because he was a solid kid. Personality plays a huge part and personality is one thing that parents can’t change greatly.</p>
<p>Whether or not your student will have any interest in engineering in a couple years is a crap shoot. I’d simply focus on helping your student put a manageable schedule together that is challenging but won’t sink him/her and let the rest happen in the future.</p>