<p>I am reposting it, as suggested, from the parents forum, as this crowd here is said to be more up to par on the issue at question :)</p>
<p>Some background info:
S has been playing violin for close to 10 years now. He has graduated from the SUZUKI program (book 8 graduation piece is Veraccini's sonata) and is currently learning Mozart's Rondo (plus tons of other pieces . He practices for about 8 hours/weekly plus private lesson/weekly, plus chamber group that plays for about 45 min /weekly . He plays first violin there(they are currently playing Mozart's Zweites Quartet, and Dvorak's "The American" - Quarted no.12). He also plays a duet in church every Sunday that practically carries the entire service.
His teacher has suggested a while ago that when S begins HS this fall he should consider picking up a viola. She thinks that it would be helpful for him as far as college scholarships go and might turn out to be more practical in the long run - looks like he will be a tall guy.
The teacher envisions teaching him viola along with violin . This is one of the best teachers in the state.
S absolutely enjoys playing his instrument but hates practicing, especially polishing the piece he already thinks he plays "well enough". He is not going to apply to any conservatories and I would really doubt he will consider music as his minor. His interest right now is math (about 8 hours of organized after school activity/weekly plus some time on his own at home) and moviemaking (every waking free moment ) As far as music goes he also plays the piano.
Now my question - how to play this whole music business to my son's advantage when it comes to admissions four years down the road? We have never looked at the music as something that will give our kid's a leg up in admissions, we simply consider it a part of a well balanced education and a skill that will stay with them forever. But, since S has invested so much time in this EC already - how to proceed further.
There is a renown Youth Symphony in our state but I doubt that S will be interested in joining due to the lack of time. He most likely won't play in his school's orchestra as it would be after hours and boring for him . He is really passionate about his math studies and is already talking about joing the robotics team at his future HS.
So againg question to parent's who are/were in the similar situation. How to play this ? Is adding a viola at his point something worth pursuing? S is very open to this, actually would like to try the viola.</p>
<p>Kelowna, you've gotten some good advice on this in your thread in the Parent's forum. As I said there, if it detracts from his primary instrument and he intends to pursue the violin in college as a music major, I would not encourage anything but casual attempts at the viola.</p>
<p>The differences is size, clef, bow weight, fingering and technique are often enough to cause issues in doubling. It tends not to be an issue with those of more advanced training on their primary.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if he's just playing for fun, go for it. There are many intermediate and advanced players who are proficient on both.</p>
<p>edad is both right and wrong in his comments. Yes, he most likely will be competing against those of higher ability if he chooses to try for a music scholarship, but it will depend on the school and their needs as to whether his talents justify a scholarship. It will depend on where he decides to apply, but there are a number of smaller programs that might welcome a violist, especially a competent one. It can be an under represented instrument in some programs, but by no means will it be a hook. The need for competent violinists is normally not an issue.</p>
<p>Thanks Violadad, I really appreciate your responses and will be looking out for your posts in the future :)
We are talking about an 8th grader here, so he has another 4 years to entertain any ideas that might come his way. For now his teacher has mentioned viola, maybe because he is a boy, maybe because he looks like he might grow to be a tall man. I have mentioned the pieces he is playing right now to give you the general idea where he stands right now, he is with a very tough, renown teacher.
His heart is not in music, although he enjoys performing. He might have a shot to be in the top 3 math students in the state, although one never knows, but that seems to be his natural ability. Like I have mentioned above , the time he spends on violin and math are about the same. But he is only about to start HS. Who knows how he will grow up? Which direction will he take?
He is an extremely intelligent, very goal oriented young man. I know that he will enjoy and treasure his musical ability and skill forever. I personally, as a parent, would like to find out how to play it best to his advantage when it comes to college admission ( he is thinking MIT, Caltech and Embry Riddle, but he is a kiddo yet, he dos not really know).</p>
<p>I haven't read the other replies in the othe forum, so hope I'm not repeating!</p>
<p>I just wanted to mention that my own kids and students, primarily violinists with skills perhaps slightly higher than your S's but generally comparable, have frequently picked up viola as a second instrument around the same age as your son. They enjoyed playing viola primarily in chamber music groups - you indicated your S's chamber experience which is typical of the kids I'm thinking of. I think they all were glad they learned viola, even those who didn't do much playing post high school.</p>
<p>If he's interested and enthusiastic, I don't see any reason why not to give it a try! It could be a life skill - even if not a scholarship.</p>
<p>I just remembered another kid I knew who switched to viola about that age. Science was the kid's interest and everyone saw a future MD. Kid ended up at Juilliard as viola major after winning major viola honors in high school. That couldn't have been predicted from violin accomplishments - solid, but nothing outstanding.</p>
<p>Not that you need to see your S as a musician, just pointing out life's interestig moments!</p>
<p>My impression is that he wants to pick up viola in addition to violin - and there's no reason to stop him, so why not? </p>
<p>Plenty of people end up combining interest in math or math-related subjects such as cs or physics with advanced music performance. Doesn't mean he has to do it, of course. It sounds like he's kind of the big fish in your small pond, and maybe he's complacent about his ability level because he doesn't see better players around him? The renowned Youth Symphony might give him something to work for - or perhaps a summer program where he is not at the top of the heap might inspire him?</p>
<p>However, I don't believe it's worth pursuing any of this for strategic college-admissions-related reasons. The chances of it paying off in a significant way are slim. Also, it's so hard to believe that most kids, even very talented ones, can identify at 14 the short list of schools they want to apply to 4 years later...I'm sure there are tens of reasons for him to pursue musical instrument study now apart from how it might play into admissions 4 years from now to an engineering-oriented school.</p>
<p>Being a good violist will open doors, and he would have opportunities not otherwise available to him. Math is usually a solitary pursuit, but music can provide a group, a team, an ensemble, a social circle....this is important.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, I don't believe it's worth pursuing any of this for strategic college-admissions-related reasons. The chances of it paying off in a significant way are slim.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not trying to play the system, perhaps the word "play" I used in the subject of this thread is a mistake as it suggests otherwise. All I am trying to figure out is how the already many, many hours my son has spend pursuing music, and many he is still going to apply towards it, can be advantegous to him when the time comes for college admissions. Maybe not joinig a youth symphony at this point is a mistake? S is open to it whenever the teacher brings it up but I do know what a huge time commitement it will be for him (ours meets on Saturday mornings in a city an hour away) and I am making an assumption (guilty) that he won't enjoy it as much. But you are right, you never know...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, it's so hard to believe that most kids, even very talented ones, can identify at 14 the short list of schools they want to apply to 4 years later...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I know, it looks silly, but like I have said in my post, he does not really know. The list was formulated during a meeting with a GC at his middle school - something I though great because it helps kids realize what they need to do, what steps to take to realize their goals.</p>
<p>Many kids love youth orchestra -- it is a valuable experience. So is summer music camp. There are some designed for kids his age, e.g., Greenwood Jr. Camp in Western Mass, which is low-pressure and includes lots of fun camp activities (it is not a "practice camp"). The kids I've known who went there absolutely loved it...and many went on to top schools and conservatories.</p>
<p>Kelowna, My only advice is not to leave the door open for lots of potential changes during high school.</p>
<p>My son is also very gifted in math (double compacted curriculum), and when he was in 8th grade, we also thought he might go the MIT/CalTech route. But the music school bug bit him in 9th grade, and by 10th, he was absolutely certain that this was his intended path, which was an entirely different one than we had imagined only a couple of years earlier. </p>
<p>This isn't to say that your son's experiences will be similar, only that it is impossible to predict how they grow and develop during high school. So, I'd recommend that you remain open to the chance that where he is in four years may not be anywhere where you imagined him to be!</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I am trying to figure out is how the already many, many hours my son has spend pursuing music, and many he is still going to apply towards it, can be advantegous to him when the time comes for college admissions>></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Perhaps this will be helpful...perhaps not. DD is an oboe/English horn player who played in the youth symphony for three years as principal player. In addition to her private lessons, she also took piano lessons. She was principal in All State and in other honors ensembles. And until the end of 10th grade, she was also a member of an auditioned children's choir. She spent HOURS a day on her music...hours. This was in addition to her high school ensemble. She was (and still is) an accomplished player who did not want to major in music. BUT she did want to continue taking lessons and play in an orchestra in college and that was a criteria of her college search.</p>
<p>I want to start by saying..oboe/English horn is perhaps as needed an instrument as viola at many schools. My daughter's music abilities and passion did NOT help her a lick in college acceptances...not one bit. She is not a music major...she's an engineering major who happens to love music.</p>
<p>When she was looking for schools, she contacted the music departments, orchestra directors and oboe teachers at EVERY school to which she applied. Of course, they were THRILLED to have an oboe player...but they were not able to leverage admissions at all. She did get accepted to her top choice schools, but it had nothing to do with her music and the music folks told her as much. Basically they said...we'd love to have you IF you get accepted.</p>
<p>DD does receive a small (enough to pay for her books) orchestra scholarship for playing in the ensemble each term. AND her school offers free private instrument lessons to those who play in the orchestra (that saved us a bunch of money...some schools charge non-majors). </p>
<p>If your son wants to learn the viola, by all means, let him. It was similar to my daughter learning (and us buying) an English horn. It made her a more valuable ensemble player with many more options. </p>
<p>But I have to say...don't do this in hopes that it will be advantageous in his college admissions other than being a passionate EC...and something he enjoys.</p>
<p>"did NOT help her a lick in college acceptances...not one bit."</p>
<p>That matches my daughters experience with admissions outside of the music world. She eventually decided to go the music conservatory direction so in the end it did not matter that music ability was not "advantageous."</p>
<p>I've seen a lot of admissions success of kids who don't major in music but who are very committed and talented musicians, so I tend to think it can be a boost for some kinds of schools, at a high level of talent -- particularly the top Ivy-league schools; the kids I am thinking of also had top grades and other extracurricular achievements, but it seems that the musical talent put them over the top (some were on From the Top, for that matter) at Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Brown, and Columbia. MIT, by the way, has a strong music department. One of the music faculty at Oberlin started with a degree from MIT, and took lessons at NEC.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I tend to think it can be a boost for some kinds of schools, at a high level of talent -- particularly the top Ivy-league schools>></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Perhaps this is true. BUT the students I know who applied to these schools (some accepted, some not)...almost ALL of them had extensive music experience. There are tons of kids at the Ivies who have great music backgrounds as can be evidenced by the fine quality of the undergrad ensembles at places like Yale (no undergrad performance degree even offered).</p>
<p>Yes, a high level of experience plus a high level of talent and accomplishment; just being in an orchestra won't necessarily be a big boost, but being concertmaster might...going to Aspen or Bowdoin, or another top festival while in high school might...composing something that gets performed (e.g. by a youth orchestra) might. It also could help that most of the students I am thinking of were from the NE, and were in NEC prep or equivalent programs; in the Boston area, there are strong connections with these colleges already.</p>
<p>I'm going to repeat a couple of things I've said in the past-</p>
<p>In college I had a good friend who was an OK violinist; she switched to the viola and something just clicked. She ended up getting a job in a Symphony orchestra.</p>
<p>My sister got into a closed dietetics program because they needed an oboist at UC Long Beach. She simply had to play in the wind ensemble every semester. You never know...</p>
<p>I would definitely say that playing an instrument will help college admissions. First, the commitment shows that you are capable and willing to work extensively on something. I know I have talked about my youth orchestra experiences quite a bit in interviews, etc. For my MIT interview, I started talking about one orchestra and it turns out that my interviewer was the parent of a kid who graduated from the orchestra 5 years ago. The interviewer really understood what I did (where so many people do not) and the time that it required. I'm convinced that (and the tape I sent in) were a good deal of why I got in. That's not to say it's the only reason. Top schools are top schools and they will always require a high grades and scores. But it is always an extra advantage to have something that seperates you. For the record, I'm still considering being a music major (with a second degree in engineering); obviously, it's always nice to have MIT as a back up school... :D</p>