<p>I feel like a really bad parent here. Hope some of you can shed some wisdom on this topic from your own experiences. </p>
<p>My son is currently a freshman in hs and has played violin since grade school. He took private lessons for a couple of years in middle school, but we stopped because the teacher was not a great match and, frankly, he didn't seem to have what it took (commitment-wise and talent-wise). He continued in the orchestra, but has always been at the bottom. He doesn't practice and I have stopped the nagging. I believe that if he really had the interest, that by this time in his violin career, he should have the self-discipline and motivation to practice on his own.</p>
<p>So, it is time to plan out course schedules for next year. I told him that, unless he is committed to practicing (which he never does), then he really shouldn't continue in the orchestra. The other kids keep progressing, and it really isn't fair all around. He agreed and decided to drop orchestra. It certainly makes satisfying the rest of his graduation requirements a lot easier (no online courses to get occ ed credit and health, for ex.). He just modified his submitted course list to omit orchestra today (the form is due friday).</p>
<p>The problem is that we are both feeling a bit sad about this decision since he has played for so long. It is part of his identity, he knows these kids, and i think it helps him to feel like he has a place in such a large school. On the other hand, with his schedule freed up a bit, he can pursue some technology courses for which I think he has greater interest and aptitude.</p>
<p>I am also concerned because it would clearly look better on his college apps if he stayed with the instrument. He is not involved in sports, and has yet to join any clubs. If he gets involved in the tech courses, he might be encouraged to join one of the relevant clubs and I think would find his niche. </p>
<p>You are mourning for a loss, understandably, but it sounds like this will open up other doors for him. He does need some involvement, just to “hook” into something. Some kids are better at becoming involved outside of school. But he should find something - community service, a job, political involvement, youth group, another art form, a small business to start up - something!</p>
<p>If a student has a lot of free blocks, I’d say stick with the orchestra. But in your son’s situation it probably makes sense not to. But do make sure that he takes the violin out now and then, especially for family Christmas carols.</p>
<p>You have to have private lessons to progress with the violin at that age. If you wanted him to continue, you should have found a different teacher. </p>
<p>Lots of kids go through what one might call “fallow periods” where they don’t practice as much as they should. Nevertheless, at some point they may catch fire. </p>
<p>My S played the violin from the 1st grade onward. There were times when he <em>said</em> he didn’t want to play anymore. I’d reply, “Fine, then you can tell X that at your next lesson.” Somehow he never did. (In our case, part of the issue was staying with a teacher who was not doing the right things with him too long, out of loyalty.) He progressed fairly well, but not up to his full potential. Finally–actually the summer after junior year of high school–he had a musical experience that transformed him as a musician. Suddenly he was practicing several times a day without being reminded. He took on a hugely challenging piece, and mastered it. (One of his earlier teachers was practically in tears when he heard it.) </p>
<p>So it is not necessarily too late for your son. BUT if he wants to take a real crack at it, you need to find him a good teacher NOW. Expecting any decent progress without one in middle/high school is not realistic.</p>
<p>My kid is itching to stop the violin (senior now). He recently struck a deal with his violin teacher that he gets to take a break for the rest of the year and play fun stuff, work on playing by ear and stuff. (He’s playing Apocalyptica stuff now.) However I have agree with Consolation - you can’t get better without a private teacher. If I have any regrets it’s not firing the bad teachers sooner. And like Consolation, I also said if he wanted to quit before the year was over when she was counting on his income, he could do it. (I really think she’s an excellent teacher, though a bit too serious for him.)</p>
<p>One thing that really helped my camp was going to music camp one summer.</p>
<p>All that said, I think it’s fine to quit, just make sure he has another EC to make up for it.</p>
<p>Playing an instrument is a very solitary activity most of the time. Kids often don’t see the bright side of it until they get on a stage to perform. My kids complain when they practice. but just like that of consolation’s, they’re unwilling to quit. When I asked them to quit since they didn’t seem to have motivation to practice, they got mad at me! My d. ended up to be a fine pianist at least for her young age, and is good also at oboe and clarinet. She is about 12, has some self drive but still complains when she needs to practice and also still gets mad at me when I suggested her to quit.</p>
<p>I agree with Consolation. Find a private teacher and take lessons. In particular, find a teacher who has students in ensemble groups so he gets the chance to play with others. School orchestra is not the only option for a violinist. </p>
<p>My D has taken violin since age 6 (she’s now a senior). We went through hot and cold periods, but she stuck with it. She’s not fabulous and she’ll probably always be in the back of the second violins, but who cares. She’s at the stage now where she plays because she enjoys it. </p>
<p>That said, I don’t think being a mediocre violin player does much for a college application. If he’s got a passion for something else, his time might be better spent doing that other thing.</p>
<p>With the violin (extremely competitive once in hs.), you would need to continue private lessons. However, in my D’s case, wrong instrument! Started on violin in elementary school, switched to bass in 7th grade. In Middle school, orchestra selections were not that challenging so she didn’t practice and I was tired of nagging. Her hs orchestra teacher suggested private lessons after freshman year and we found a great teacher. Caught fire in sophomore year. LOL, plays in 5 orchestras and ended up giving up basketball & soccer in junior year. Now a senior and looking at continuing to play in college but despite being talented, not planning on being a performance major.</p>
<p>I definitely understand the identity part. If it were a major consideration for a college hook, I’d say proficiency should be there. Especially violin.
If the interest in music is still genuine, I’d look at other instruments!</p>
<p>I have some experience with this. I was taking violin and piano lessons for a while. After a while, I really started to dislike piano. I never had desire to practice, couldn’t coordinate myself to play properly, and wasn’t really happy playing piano in general. With violin, I liked it more, but I didn’t practice enough. I eventually quit piano but continued violin. Now I practice frequently.</p>
<p>The point is that you first have to ask him if he at least likes violin and if he wants to continue with it. He doesn’t have to like playing in the orchestra, just playing the violin. Ask him if he wants to train with a new teacher and make a serious commitment to practicing. You should consider looking for a teacher who will teach him proper practicing techniques. He doesn’t have to practice a whole lot to improve, but he has to know how to practice correctly. This will make practicing more enjoyable. If you want, I can post some of the techniques I use that I learned from my current and past teachers.</p>
<p>If he wants to make a commitment, let him. He may want to join the school orchestra again or join an outside string or music group.</p>
<p>Two things. First, with two kids who played the violin, my sense is that unless the child is a rare genius, without a decent teacher, he can practice til the cows come home without making a lot of progress. (Indeed, even with a good teacher and a lot of enthusiam, the parent may still find herself smiling through the death throes of a musical cat.) So maybe it was frustrating or felt pointless for this kid to practice in the absence of guidance and instruction.</p>
<p>Second, what I’m missing here is what the kid wants. Does he want to remain in the orchestra? I just can’t see urging a child who wants to be in an orchestra to give it up. It sounds as if the mother is making the decision and then mourning a loss that does not stem from the child’s volition. Why not find out if the kid wants to remain in the orchestra playing violin? If so, get him a teacher. A reasonable teacher and a reasonable high school orchestra should not tolerate a student who isn’t putting in any effort for long, so there will be a real world consequence to not practicing.</p>
<p>If the kid wants to continue with the violin but doesn’t want to remain in the orchestra, then the private teacher and outside string ensemble suggestion is wonderful. It will offer much more flexibility in terms of school schedule, and given how much more noticable the student’s work will be in a small group ensemble than as 17th chair in a no cuts school orchestra, he might be more inspired to persevere.</p>
<p>My two violin-playing kids, one of whom had been at it since age 5, both gave it up for other musical pursuits that they have continued to the present, well past high school. I think that the best thing is for the impetus (for taking up and continuing or for quitting or changing instruments) to come from the kid.</p>
<p>Another mother of a violinist. Even with wonderful teachers and diligent practice he never quite reached the level he would have wished. He did keep up with it, and does play in the student orchestra at college.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s a right answer here. I think the question is whether or not he prefers the orchestra or the tech courses.</p>
<p>And yes, it is sad to lose things and go onto to new things. But happy too.</p>
<p>I have a feeling he’ll be interested in the tech clubs once he gets rolling.
D started violin when she was 6 or so and has kept up with year round lessons until last year when she went to college. Was first chair in HS but did not have the talent or time to keep up with college orchestra. She plays by herself or with a friend 3-4 times a week - especially during stressful times. Her hallmates love it.</p>
<p>We can’t all be virtuosi. We can’t all be first chair.</p>
<p>So, to me the question is: does the student derive pleasure or some other benefit from the activity? (I am talking about high school and beyond. Prior to that, I can make a passionate case for musical literacy.)</p>
<p>Both my S’s were in the school band through middle sch. Both were good (first chair) players. Both hated practice and did very little. By ninth grade they were ready to give it up and try new things. They never regretted that decison. They found other EC’s that they enjoyed more.</p>
<p>My charming and not very work oriented nephew was a drummer in high school. Only he never practiced. He loved being in the band – but there was no way he was going to put the hours in that were needed to keep up with an aggressive percussion section. His band director (a man with many years of success with teens) came up with the perfect solution: the kid played triangle. </p>
<p>That’s it. Once in awhile he went “ping”. He could read music and was plenty sharp to remember where the pings went for marching band. He knew he was a slacker. Director knew. Everyone teased him – and he teased right back “Yeah, I COULD practice for hours but when ya got one note, whattya gonna do?”</p>
<p>It was a cheeky win-win for student and director.</p>
This is so key. I started piano at parental suggestion and clarinet shortly afterwards in the school band on a whim; after five years, it was clear which one I had more natural aptitude for. Five years of private piano lessons (with an adequate, though not amazing teacher) was pure slogging. OTOH, with an amazing teacher and lack of drive on my end, I’ve still managed four years of All-State Band and -have- reached the enjoyment phase of clarinet. Never been first chair, and I’m content with that. It’s not my main EC but thinking ahead to college (when I plan to drop the time commitment of private lessons), I will miss it.</p>
<p>In hindsight, I’m really bad at multi-tasking, which is almost a requirement of piano “enjoyment.” Hard to have fun when your brain is working overtime to coordinate both hands, though I always liked just playing right-hand melodies.</p>
<p>Parent of a violin player and a cello player here. Both started in 3rd grade in our public school program. Daughter (violin) showed early talent but when she was 12 years old had a bad match with a private instructor, a local university professor/artist in residence. She stuck with the school orchestra and the city youth symphony but never took private lessons again. She is now a freshman in college and plays in a celtic fiddling group (less commitment than the school orchestra). She wanted to continue playing, decided she didn’t have to be first chair/the best, and plays because she loves it.</p>
<p>Son (cello) got to go to HS early in 8th grade because the school orchestra had no cello and the director knew him from youth symphony and his older sister. He played in HS orchestra in 8th and 9th grades. He quit the youth symphony in 9th grade because he knew the rehearsal time would conflict with his desire to be in school plays and musicals. In 10th grade (his current grade) he was unable to fit the hs orchestra into his schedule. He is in Madrigals (top auditioned singing group) and auditioned choir (required to be in choir if in Madrigals) so already has 2 of his 8 classes devoted to music. Plus now the hs orchestra has 6 cellos so it’s not all up to him.</p>
<p>He occasionally plays in a quartet for weddings, etc. but I don’t know if he will ever go back to the hs school orchestra. He’s also in a rock and roll garage band (lead singer and plays keyboard, even though he quit piano in 4th grade). I joke he plays the piano more now than when he took lessons!</p>
<p>Your school orchestra may be different than ours - we are in an urban low income area so there is not the assumption that all kids will have private lessons. If they want to audition for district orchestra/state solo competitions, they do have to be working with a private instructor. But it’s perfectly okay to just play in the school orchestra. Our best players do have private lessons. But if your son is okay with not being the best and just enjoys playing, that might be an adjustment but a viable option. If he is interested in that as an option, you might want to check with the hs teacher of the orchestra to see the expectation. Ours is fine with kids practicing on their own and realizes not everyone can/will take private lessons but your culture/school may be different.</p>
<p>You are not a bad parent - but sometimes things change. You may give up certain activities and start new ones, or change your expectations for the existing activities.</p>
<p>Mother of a bassist. Following up on an earlier post.</p>
<p>In our area, you need private lessons to play an orchestral instrument in h.s. but on the average, bass parts are a lot easier than violin parts, so less outside practice is needed.</p>
<p>Also, my observation is that a merely adequate bassist is more likely to be appreciated than a merely adequate violinist. There is usually a bit of a shortage of bassists.</p>
<p>I’ve been going steady with my clarinet for ~5 years now and will be dropping band next year. All in all, I’m okay with it. I can still play on my own and I don’t have to stress over bad band music anymore.</p>