<p>So, son finished freshman year at a big, challenging university that was his dream school. Science major. Thinks of premed, like half the school, but we know that's a very long road. Not sure HE knows that yet. Big fish, little fish syndrome, it's tough when EVERYONE is smart. So after two semesters he ended up with a 2.5 GPA. And he worked very hard. But he knows he needs to work harder, and has a plan in place to start off strong in the fall. He knows he needs better study skills. He is a joiner, got involved with probably too much stuff, good stuff, (deans host, tour guide, Honduras brigade, etc) including a fraternity. (The frat average gpa is 3.4) Not much of a drinker in high school, so I'm sure he had some freshman fun, but don't think partying is a problem. He got dumped by his long term girlfriend 1 week into school, so I know his concentration was hampered. He was pretty down about that and is still not 100% over it, but moving on. So, after meeting with an advisor for a different major about possible transferring into it, (his is more research based, this is more clinical and in a different school at the college) she pretty much told him he needs to re-think being a science major! Put him down in the dumps. I know his GPA is low, but I know he is also driven and feels he can do much better this fall. On the schools website, it clearly states transfers into this program need a 2.0, which he is above. I told him he needs to sit with HIS advisor and be honest. Ask his opinion on if he can dig out of this hole. So, do you think it's too early to think about switching majors? Does he give it another semester and see if things improve? He is taking 2 lab science courses, which will be tough (o chem is one). If things don't go well, the hole will be bigger! O chem is his choice, it is one of 3 tracts in his major, but I know he is thinking of med school prereqs. But isn't it common for freshmen to struggle? He is a smart kid who works hard. But when I ran a gpa calculator it seems he will need stellar grades the next 3 years to end up with a respectable gpa for grad school, or whatever the future brings. Does he change to an easier major with the idea of a better gpa? It's not like he failed anything, he got 1 C-, 2 C's and the rest B's and above. But deep down I wonder if the school is too tough for him. He LOVES this school. Anyone out there have any experience with this? I'm inclined to advise him to see how the fall goes, but looking to CC for some advice. Thanks!</p>
<p>This is not unusual at the top schools. At many schools, the intro science classes are weeder classes and, when the average SAT is over 700 and the pre-med kids attended lots of top high schools, the kids being weeded out are sometimes kids who could have succeeded in the sciences elsewhere. It’s a hard question because sheer willpower alone won’t get him accepted to med school. Many of these kids change majors with psych being a common alternative. Others major is science but don’t go to medical school. Others go to medical school abroad.</p>
<p>Personally, I think unless you are a crack student and überorganized & disciplined, you should not consider taking ochem at the same time as another lab course, at many schools.
Many students especially pre med Ive heard, audit first.</p>
<p>He may get away with it if it is a large section & prof grades on a curve, and some students stop attending without dropping the course.</p>
<p>Speaking from experience.</p>
<p>I don’t know if it’s too late, but has he considered taking o’chem during the summer? This course is a weeder and very challenging for premed students and many want to just tackle this one course in the summer.</p>
<p>Cbreeze, thought about repeating a chem class this summer to bring the grade up, or take o chem by itself this summer knowing it might be easier to do well, but he got a research grant in a campus lab requiring 35 hours a week for 10 weeks. Summer chem classes at the school are days. The grant was great for him, and he may find research is his “thing”. Apparently his lab portion of the science courses had better grades than his tests.</p>
<p>2collegewego, well said. We wanted him to go to our state flagship thinking along those lines. He chose to swim with the big fish! Yes, he can stay in the sciences and forgo med school. This is something I think he may realize as time goes on if he doesn’t make the stats.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4, Hmmm, audit first. Sounds like a good idea but I know he’ll say, “but then I’ll be behind” He was excited to take o chem with a few study buddies. Why do I feel so nervous for him? Haha</p>
<p>It’s not too early to think about it because if he does change to a different science major, he may have to start a sequence and if he starts too late, he’ll be delayed.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s too early to think about switching, even out of science. But that’s up to him. Does he love science classes and is just struggling to make an adjustment to college along with tough first-year science courses? Or is he “meh” about the science and just holding on because he’s premed or thinks he “should” be a science person? You can be art pre-med or philosophy pre-med; you don’t have to major in the sciences to take the med school prerequisites. Many successful doctors were not science majors in undergrad.</p>
<p>The other thing you have to consider is if med school is on his radar, he needs a very high GPA. So if he thinks his GPA is going to be mediocre in his current major, he may want to consider switching. Psychology is a common pre-med major because 1) it helps you understand people and 2) it’s admittedly really easy. (I was a psychology major, so I’m talking about my own people - let’s face it, it’s easy!)</p>
<p>In general, 49.9% of all Frosh who matriculate into a college end up graduating from that college in the bottom half of their class.</p>
<p>Graduating with a major in science can be accomplished with C’s, but not med school, for which he’ll need a 3.5 to be competitive. Grad school/research is not really an option with that low of a GPA either.</p>
<p>I do not recommend doubling sciences next year unless he underloads – takes one class less. For most kids, Organic is much more rigorous than Gen Chem.</p>
<p>Med schools frown on taking prereqs over the summer, so that is only a real option if he just wants to be a ‘science major’ and likely hinder his med school app.</p>
<p>You might ask him to look over his work to see if there are any trends influencing his difficulty with whichever topics he was having difficulty with. He may need to alter his learning methods, and test-taking methods, to suit the new environment. Some people also do really well sophomore year after ditching the unnecessary ECs, streamlining their methods, and getting into study groups.</p>
<p>If the college is higher tier one, certain med schools regionally ‘affiliated’ with the college may give a beneficial decimal modifer to the GPA for acceptance, if you know what I mean. It’s something he might inquire about from the career placement center at his school.</p>
<p>I encouraged my son to stick with his pre-med program a semester too long, and I regret it. It made him feel terrible about himself, kept him from doing things that he actually liked and was good at, lowered his grades, and caused him to pass on other academic challenges that probably would have served him better in the long run.</p>
<p>It doesn’t sound like he’s ready for Ochem.</p>
<p>frankly, with all of his activities and a frat, I doubt that he “worked very hard” on academics. He may have told you that, but with all of those activities, there aren’t enough hours in the day to also “work very hard” on coursework.</p>
<p>If your son has what it takes to do well in a science major (and possibly be premed) then “working hard” would have produced better grades. </p>
<p>Freshman year can be a huge adjustment. Lots of distractions, lots of people around 24/7 who can come up with fun things to do that take you away from academics. Pledging a frat is very time consuming and I don’t often see frosh pre-med science majors being able to juggle both. </p>
<p>It may be common for frosh to struggle, but those often aren’t the ones who end up in med school. </p>
<p>He should not take Ochem yet. If he still has premed hopes, then he likely will not be able to apply til after senior year, rather than after junior year as many do. He’ll need that extra year for GPA repair…especially BCMP GPA repair.</p>
<p>What is the other science/lab class that he plans on taking this year? Physics? BioChem?</p>
<p>You are nervous because with his GPA, he isn’t iikely to get into med school unless he does a huge turn around. He’s given his chances of becoming a doctor a real dump. Forget the research and internships and the rest, if he really wants to go to medical school. He has to pass the GPA screening and right now it isn’t going to happen. The med schools look at the numbers/grades first and give them upmost consideration. </p>
<p>And to add to the insult upon injury, a lot of medical type programs close the door to those who don’t have med school quality gpas. It’s not like you can become a PT, for example, because your grades are not good enough for med school Uh, uhn. High GPA is a big deal in these programs. You can’t even get into nursing programs many times without the GPA, forget that you got it at a top school, in rigorous program. It’s the numbers and grades that count for law and med school.</p>
<p>It sounds like it’s time for some serious conversations between the student and his advisors and between him and you.</p>
<p>With the record he’s compiled so far, there is a strong likelihood that medical school is not going to happen. It’s not completely impossible, but things don’t look great. </p>
<p>So he needs to be giving serious thought to alternative career plans. If he can’t be a doctor, what would he like to do instead? And how can he prepare for that?</p>
<p>This doesn’t mean giving up the medical dream entirely. A student can complete the pre-med requirements while majoring in anything. But it is time to give serious attention to alternatives. Otherwise, he may end up graduating with grades that will not get him into medical school and with a major that doesn’t help to prepare him for a career that he would like.</p>
<p>Everything you all said is true. He didn’t start out on the right foot. He did too much, went out too much, etc. His other lab class is the third semester neuroscience class, which is his major. Deep down, I know he isn’t likely to go to med school, but when does that realization come to the student? It has to be his decision. If he is adamant about taking o chem this fall, perhaps he won’t do well and THEN he will realize things need to change? We all feel this will be a make or break semester but if we try to get him to not stay on this path at this time, will he always think he might have made it? He is gearing up to succeed (dropping ec’s, adding study groups and plans)What’s one more semester? When do students finally realize the reality of pre med? He will probably be doing summer classes from now on, and the research grant he got this summer was something he felt he could not pass up. We agreed, for the experience and large stipend. Oh boy, my stomach aches from the whole thing. I don’t want to burst his bubble, but how do I help him face reality, and settle into something he might truly thrive at? I believe he belongs at this school, but not in premed.</p>
<p>Well said Marian!</p>
<p>So his current major is neuroscience, what major is he thinking of switching into? And is it offered at his current school?</p>
<p>I only ask because younger son (now a med student) started freshman year thinking he wanted to be a specific science major, but switched…into economics another subject he was equally interested in, but did remain pre-med. The science majors he was looking to were not offered at his school. He completed his pre-med sequence at the first university and completed his econ degree with high honors. </p>
<p>He still wanted his science degrees and completed those degrees 2 semesters after his first graduation. Some students take a gap year after UG before med school, he did its just his gap year consisted of another year of school, he received his other degrees in biochemistry, microbiology and genetics. It was important to him to be able to do this, as his first school does not allow double majors.</p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is he doesn’t need to know immediately if he wants to remain pre-med and neither do you. It is a process, the more he is exposed to different sciences, heck any other classes, the more he will realize what he does and does not enjoy. What son learned in his general chem and physics classes has little to nothing to do with what he is studying and prepping for in med school.</p>
<p>He needs to shadow some doctors and see what their daily life entails. The classes that helped son identify closer with medicine were his anatomy and physiology class (not offered at his first school, took at another OOS uni), genetics, immunology, virology, micro and biochem of disease… His econ degree as helped in another expected way, his ability to evaluate the effectiveness of medicine with a cost-analysis perspective. His senior thesis was economic health-care policy…made for interesting med school interviews.</p>
<p>Son’s first year GPA was not stellar, but he wasn’t aiming for stellar… he was privileged to attend the university he selected and wanted to take advantage of every opportunity afforded to him. he overloaded every semester and turned down the school’s offer for a year abroad (at their expense) to remain all four years on campus. His knew his exposure to the campus was finite and cherished every minute.</p>
<p>Allow your son and guide him to allowing himself to explore and discover where his path will take him. He has time. Suggest maybe if he truly wants to remain pre-med to prioritize what is important to him and that of a successful pre-med. If he realizes they aren’t the same then it is just as important to know what you don’t want as what you do. After his research this summer he might realize a Phd is in his future or a MD/Phd. Which is an entirely different focus.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son and no more tummy troubles for you!!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Katwkittens,
That’s why I turned to CC, I knew I’d find people that know what I’m going through! Thank you for saying he has time. I need to realize this. We sometimes get caught up in getting ahead, we don’t know how to get there. It IS a process, and not a quick one. It sounds like you have an incredible, bright son. Mine is at the beginning of the process. He had A & P and genetics in high school, that started his interest. The brigade to Honduras made him think more. But he still has a long way to go. You are so right, he needs to commit to what premed will require. He thought of switching into a human physiology type major. And he loves his school also. To be honest, I think he would make a great lawyer, perhaps advocating for the medical field! Thank you for helping me realize, at 19, time is on his side.</p>
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<p>It shouldn’t.</p>
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<p>You don’t. He can still major in neuro by earning C’s. And if he gets an even lower grade, he’ll know med school is now on the back burner – way back.</p>
<p>btw: osteopathic schools allow grade replacement. Allopathic schools do not. </p>
<p>btw2: law school is ALL about the numbers: GPA+LSAT, so science major have a much more difficult path to LS. OTOH, IP legal jobs are more in demand.</p>
<p>For our son, who wanted to be “pre-med” in college, his counselor gave him the following advice: Since GPA is the most important piece of the admissions game for med school, you have to be smart about your choices leading in and can’t try to do it all. If you want to go to a top undergrad school, especially one with a lot of pre-med students, your choice is going to be either social life or difficult major. Trying to do both while fullfilling the pre-med requirements just can’t be done by most people when you need to be in the 3.5 gpa range. The counselor suggested an easy major and a top school. If your child loves science, they are going to get plenty of it fullfilling their med school pre-reqs and then lots more at med school. When I step back and think about trying to juggle top academic school + time consuming social obligations + pre-med requirements + difficult major + almost all A’s (remember with those dreaded minus’ an A- is “only” a 3.7) + research or volunteer/shadowing I get exhausted. It’s just too much and it’s time to let go of one of them…as hard as it may be. if you present it this way - that it’s too much and he can choose which one to let go, he might have a better attitude about it. For our son, who really enjoys his social life - changing the major was the easy choice.</p>