St. Lawrence is a school worth attending on its own merits. Being relatively easy to get into is only a bonus. I can’t say whether it’s a perfect match for your daughter, but the college is worth a look.
if a kid " is planning on being a doctor.", then the college that she attends is irrelevent, whichever is cheapest and fits her well would be the best. Med. Schools adcoms do not care. They care about collge GPA, MCAT score, Medical ECs and preferrably outgoing personality that connects easily with others and work very well in team setting. In regard to being driven, the kid will have to be more driven than GPA = 3.6. In fact, 3.6 is absolute mininmum for college GPA if the Med. School is in plans. T
his is as much as I know as a parent of the Med. student who is graduating from Med. School in May of this year.
My own D. went to the cheapest for her college that was a perfect match for her. As a happy kid who felt “at home”, she was successful and had great choices of Med. Schools after graduation, including in top 20s
MiamiDAP, college is four years. The college a student attends is not irrelevant to the student. A poor fit, for example, can derail a student. A student fully engaged in academic pursuits may find few similar peers in a school that lacks a strong student body. Even for a college student, college is more than nabbing a certain GPA for med school applications, just like high school is more than nabbing a certain GPA for college applications. The attitude, going only for GPA, is an unfortunate one that now seems to permeate the college scene. Sad!
I will not find anybody at any place among pre-med crowd do not belong to " a strong student body.
I agree that the “fit is important. I supported this in my previous post: “My own D. went to the cheapest for her college that was a perfect match for her. As a happy kid who felt “at home”, she was successful” Apparently, you omitted this part.
" The attitude, going only for GPA” absolutely will NOT work if a Med. School is in plan. Med. School is looking for well rounded people who took care of their social development during college and who made sure during college that the medicine is a right choice for them by participating in numerous medically related ECs. As a “bonus” showing strong un-related interests and involvement in college life is a plus, but will not substitute for the lack in GPA/MCAT score area.
Nothing is more sad than lack of understanding of what is involved and finding out after semester or two that the doors are shut and there are no way to unlock them. There are about 75% of all initial pre-meds who belong in this category. Some just shrug it off and move on to something else, for others it is not such an easy thing to overcome, it maybe pretty devastating. That is what I call sad!!!
^The cheapest college “that was a perfect match for her.” That’s the key.
There are some public colleges that have the feel of private lacs, but are much less expensive: St. Mary’s in Maryland, Miami of Ohio, SUNY Geneseo, New College of Florida for example. For excellent in-state students especially, these colleges can be financial safeties as well as academic safeties, and yet still might be the perfect fit.
Doctors need to deal with all sorts of people , and be able to function in all sorts of unusual and uncomfortable situations. Your daughter is more than a little quirky, and I think you’re making a mistake by accommodating her every whim (large state schools freak her out, Clark was too friendly). She will never overcome these traits unless u get her out of her comfort zone. A large hospital is more like U Mass than Bryn Mawr.
The D is not yet a doctor and many things can change in 4 years. My S is much more mature than when he went off the school three years ago, and a small, nurturing environment was what he needed to keep his dream of med school alive. A large state school was not right for him then and it sounds like it may not be right for OP’s D.
But the original question is what is a good safety. The truth is the safety is not going to meet all the wants and desires of the student. That’s why it is a safety. If it was perfect, the student would just apply to that school as one of the core group. It is possible to have a perfect school, a choice school, that fits the requirements of a safety too, in that the student will be admitted (auto admit or statistic so within the students stats that admission is a shoo-in) and it’s affordable. My daughter’s choice was a safety too (auto admit and affordable) but she gave up two things on her college dream list, size (it was about 3x as large as she wanted) and diversity (fine after she explored more). She didn’t settle for the safety (picked the school first without knowing it could be labeled a ‘safety’) but she was realistic in that no school is going to be perfect.
"Doctors need to deal with all sorts of people , and be able to function in all sorts of unusual and uncomfortable situations. "- Exactly to the point. D. mentioned that as Med. Student (not a doc. yet), she had to deal one on one with mentally ill (potentially violent), prizoners brough by police, homeless…etc.,all of whom if they were in capacity to note so, told her that she was the one who treated them well. This is not an “inborn talent”, this has to be developed and the college is a perfect place to do so and grow socially in all aspects of it. But not everybody realize that. D. made sure that the crowd around her is diverse, she did not want strictly intense academically focused high caliber students around her, she wanted to challenge herself by connecting to those with very wide range of interests .
MidwestDad3: “There are some public colleges that have the feel of private lacs, but are much less expensive: St. Mary’s in Maryland, Miami of Ohio” - Miami of Ohio is the one that D. attended. She loved it there! Nobody knows and we had no idea at the time that Miami is #2 nationally in undergraduate teaching. Great focus on UG students!
Thanks again everyone – we were away all last week visiting colleges and it was a very helpful trip.
@moooop & @MiamiDAP, I do feel the need to defend her a bit – she’s perfectly capable of dealing with lots of different people in different situations, and indeed has several friends in the “popular” crowd (eye roll). Where she works (teaching swim lessons at the local Y) it’s a very social place and she deals successfully with lots of different personalities, both co-workers and students, including many who are special needs. It’s just not what would work for her in a college. She wants the focus to be on academics, not the party-type socializing that appears to be rampant at large schools. Not criticizing your daughter for choosing differently, and I’m glad it was right for her, but I know my daughter pretty well and want her to be happy even if she ends up at a safety.
Also, her GPA is what it is in part because she spends 25+ hours a week on her competitive club swim team, which is very important to her, and which she will not be doing in college. Also she works every weekend. I’m extremely proud of how hard she works and how she’s kept grades up in the most challenging classes – she never gets below a B, even in AP classes, and often that’s the highest grade in the class. I’m certain that her college grades will be fine for med school. So, I know you meant well, but an unweighted 3.6 does not equal not driven.
For anyone following this thread who would like to know the impressions of our college visits:
Day 1: PA, Franklin & Marshall Daughter #1 (who prompted me to start this thread) thought it was a nice school but not for her. It didn’t seem to be the sort of place where people rolled out of bed in sweats and went to class – the guys wore golf shirts and the girls wore makeup. All of the tour guides came from exclusive private high schools in places like Manhattan & DC. Facilities, dorms, academics, & access to professors are really good. Daughter #2 loved it and instantly pronounced it her first choice.
Day 2: PA, Ursinus Both girls thought it was the best safety-type school they had seen, but not particularly exciting. Everything was cinder-blocky and not particularly pretty, but the college was coming after F&M so we reminded ourselves that it was a tough act to follow. Not crossed off of the list yet.
Day 2: PA, Bryn Mawr Incredibly gorgeous campus, buildings, etc, etc. Everyone seemed intelligent without being competitive about it. It’s a relatively tiny school, so definitely not for most people, but it ended up being Daughter #1’s first choice. She said she felt truly comfortable there and as if she belonged already. Daughter #2 at this point thought it was pretty but didn’t like the semi-isolated setting and the lack of men.
Day 3: NY, Bard We had high hopes for Bard. However, the vibe was all wrong for them. Neither of my daughters is “crunchy” and that’s what we saw. To be fair, that could be because our tour guide was a photography major, but everywhere we walked we saw people who fit the stereotype. Unlike other colleges we’ve been to, people seemed to smirk at us as our tour group went by. It was a bit uncomfortable. Also, there was SO much smoking! It was outside all of the buildings and you could smell it on everyone. Yuck. Bard seems like a phenomenal school with terrific programs for the right person, but it’s not right for my daughters.
Day 4: MA, Mount Holyoke This was a surprise – both of my (extremely different) daughters liked it. The one who loved F&M said this one would actually make her consider an all-women school, given the location and how men are in most of the classes. Despite it being a gray and freezing cold day, the tour guide was very upbeat and the campus was pretty. Dorms, facilities, etc are all top-notch. So far this is second choice for both girls.
Day 5: MA, Smith We attended their all-day open house, which was very well done. Super-organized and helpful, with breakout sessions you could pick in each time block. My daughters attended sessions about the application process, essay writing, and Q&A with students, and I went to “Parents’ Survival Guide” and financial aid info sessions. We met up for a tour, lunch, and final remarks. I was expecting daughter #1 to like it more than she did. I think, for the first time, she felt intimidated. We were approached by a loud and aggressive group of protesters during our tour, which made her very uncomfortable. Our tour guide handled it very professionally, and I was impressed by that, but it was a bit of an odd moment.
Conclusion? Still looking for safeties, but getting a much better feel for what’s going to work. Daughter #1 is doing an internship in Baltimore this summer, and living with my sister during that time, so they’re going to tour a lot of the local schools like Saint Mary’s College of MD.
Thank you everyone!
@Consolation No EA for Brandeis, but a 45% acceptance rate for ED compared to 37% regular, so it does matter a bit.
@MidwestDad3 We’re planning on visiting Wells & Ithaca, thank you!
I still think you aren’t looking for safeties, but for schools for the top of your daughters’ lists. All the schools you’ve visited and listed are difficult to get into.
I hope you visit Washington College for a safety when you are in MD. Esp D2 might like it.
@twoinanddone It’s true that we mostly visited targets. We had the trip planned before we found a bunch of the safeties people had listed, and the girls still wanted to see them. They do not think things like Smith are safeties, I promise you!
Both met with their guidance counselor this morning to discuss the trip, and apparently all were appropriate targets except for Ursinus as a safety. I do trust our guidance counselor, who’s been at this a while and knows these schools well. She sends kids to Smith and Mount Holyoke every year.
Odd to say I actually missed mentioning a safety we visited – Springfield College. The girls have a friend there and she showed us around.
"Also, her GPA is what it is in part because she spends 25+ hours a week on her competitive club swim team, "
- This is funniest and very rare coincidence here on CC. My D. was also a competitive swimmer (but it was only one of her “things”). She had daily practices that took at least 3 hrs, including Saturdays and many meets, many of them out of town, both with the club and HS. She still holds about 15 records in her swim club, some of them a are 17 years old. She even tried to swim at the club during fresnman year at college, but as I said with many interests and many added activities at college, it simply did not work out. Swimming is the best sport, I am so happy to see another dedicated swimmer here. D. never went back to swimming though, just working out at gym. Well, it was not the only thing, D. was also palying piano all thru HS and graduated with Music minor from college. And again, she had more commitments during HS than just these 2. Many various interests help with academics though. However, when she started adding them indefinitely at college, she realized that swimming got to go. Day could be stretched only up to 24 hours and D. happen to be a long sleeper also.
I’d forgotten about the smoking at Bard. There are things I like very much about Bard, but it wasn’t right for my kid either.
I agree about the smoking at Bard! I noticed it as well. And also the amount of trash and empty beer bottles littered about. It’s funny you thought “crunchy” though - we thought the vibe was more hipster/urban. Definitely a harder, more sarcastic/jaded vibe than at some of the other quirky/artsy schools we visited. Much to love about Bard, for sure, but it does have a different sort of feel.
@MiamiDAP Glad to meet another swim parent – it’s a great sport, but my goodness, why do those meets take 3 days? My husband became a meet official years ago just to help pass the time when our daughter wasn’t swimming. 
HS swim has been great, our town wins conference championships and it’s a really nice group of kids. Even though it’s a time suck she’s never had any regrets. She’s mostly a distance swimmer and breaststroker, and is decent but not amazing, and doesn’t want to take it nearly as seriously in college. She wants to be on a slow D3 team (that doesn’t practice 6 days/week and/or 2x/day) or club.
@staceyneil You’re right – Bard was really what you’d call hipster. The guys were more hipster and the women seemed more crunchy, if that makes any sense. We saw the trash too, and it really put us off along with the smoking – especially after seeing campuses like Bryn Mawr, which may be the most clean and beautiful place on the planet. People seemed smart at Bard, but also very inclined to tell us how smart they were, as opposed to Smith, where you knew they were hardcore smart even though they were friendly and never mentioned it. Bard wasn’t for us.
@Pheebers Yep, I agree. My D looked at Bryn Mawr and Smith, too. She’s loving Mount Holyoke! Very friendly, very smart but humble about it, very clean & beautiful. Great sense of community, too.
Maybe St. Lawrence Univ and Ithica College, both in upstate NY.