Student advising

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
1

<p>In another thread @ArtsandLetters‌ said:</p>

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What I would LIKE to see is more emphasis on hands-on student advising

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<p>It seems on paper that USC has a system in place, so I'm curious about your experiences with it (and the experiences of others). Are the advisers stretched too thin? Do they not really take the time to get to know the student even if the student is proactive and seeks them out?</p>

<p>Given the overall breadth of USC's curriculum and the seeming emphasis on carrying minors or even multiple majors I would think that strong academic advisers are crucial to success.</p>

2

<p>Thanks for asking.</p>

<p>I was hopeful when the acceptance letter stated that it would provide advising to help D select courses appropriate to her major and minor. It was the ONLY college that overtly acknowledged her minor in writing.</p>

<p>So far she seems to have been left to her own devices. I’m a bit disappointed with the sink or swim approach for Freshman so far. She’s very independent and doesn’t need hand holding but is feeling “adrift” in this one respect. I’ve advised her to push the issue. Theoretically, the school is working to assign her someone better. But my sense is that her friends are in the same boat. My husband and I are serving up the back-up plan (in terms of advice) but I wonder what happens to students whose parents don’t have backgrounds in this area (college admissions and course selection)?</p>

<p>Mirroring another parent’s observation on CC (has a graduating senior) USC is less hands-on than I expected. But it’s early so time will tell. But I did expect more given the huge financial burden the family is carrying in terms of tuition.</p>

3

<p>Thanks, that is a bit disconcerting. My D is independent, but not necessarily proactive/forceful. So if the default mode is neglect she’s likely to just take it as given and not push back. Sounds like that could put her on a track where she misses potential opportunities.</p>

<p>She has very definite goals as an artist and she’s likely going to have to tailor her curriculum somewhat to be happy. We’re meeting with an adviser in her department (IMGD) next week so I’ll be sure to ask him about this topic.</p>

4

<p>Let me know how it goes. (even if a private message). D is pushing SCA to assign another adviser and I’ve asked her to tap into the alumni departments to get connected. Make sure you’re on the parent Facebook page (the one for SCA is closed). Maria Riley does a good job of posting when opportunities such as alumni dinners (Scuppers?) come up. Then I pass them along because there is so much going on at USC it’s easy for a student to miss it. My DH and I are going to follow-up at the next parent weekend.</p>

5

<p>What a difference a person can make! My son, who graduated from SCA in 2013, had Charlotte for most of his USC career, and she was an incredible adviser who also kept parents in the loop. Unfortunately, she left the school as her voiceover career took off. My son in architecture (minoring in Cinematic Arts) has a so-so adviser, but the Arch curriculum is more set, with fewer ways to veer off course.</p>

6

<p>I think advisers are like dealing with health care, it can be good to know as much as you can about what is going on as well. S has adviser that is a surface guy. Does the must do stuff, but nothing more. They put together his 4 year plan, but didn’t address how he could double major even when asked, I think it was easier to say it would be a challenge than figure it out with him. I found this disappointing considering I have an engineer taking 18 units each semester and pretty easily pulling straight A’s - obviously a kid that can handle a challenge. So we went over the four year plan together and by digging a bit deeper found class options that overlapped between the two majors and a couple inefficient/poor selections on the plan, and one plain error. Adjusting those freed up 3 spaces and he can pull off the double with a summer course or two. Not something we see as a barrier. Good lessons for my student to know that 1) mom ain’t so dumb and 2) ya need to be responsible for yourself and your plans more than anything.</p>

<p>Also, he tried to get an approved course or at least solid direction on summer courses that he could likely take elsewhere and he got no direction there. And trying to find that on your own is madness when you have no parameters to work with, even when you have other great universities close to home.</p>

<p>It is good to take the time to look over your student’s 4 year plan and see if it makes sense. It is a maze for them, but if you have been to college yourself, it all comes back pretty quick and it is sorta fun to piece together the puzzle. And with what we pay per class you can be sure they aren’t taking non-sense before it’s too late. :slight_smile: </p>

7

<p>I find this conversation very interesting. My son will be a Freshman Spring Admit. He was admitted in Dornsife as Undecided but will be launching right into Viterbi CS (Games). We tried to make a phone call appointment with his adviser to confirm the path, ask about the AUP Study Abroad program, better understand the Core/Gen Ed requirements and find out the process for getting transfer credits approved in advance of actually taking the course. My son has committed to USC and paid the $300 deposit. A couple of days after we made the appointment we got a call saying that their rule is that they don’t meet with any students until they have at least attended the orientation. So they cancelled the call.</p>

<p>Really? So how do we get assurance that the summer cc courses my son is signed up for will really transfer? Not a good first experience.</p>

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<p>Well, I have mixed feelings about the advising. Some of the advisers are really effective, know what can be switched out and how, and other valuable info when a student is looking for a way to squeeze in an extra minor or double major. However, there can be turnover, and new advisers can take time to get all the very complex details, i.e.: even if an UG is allowed to take a grad level class, if that class is a req for the MFA, the UG must 1) petition to professor to be put on standby waitlist, and 2) all the grad students get to register first. If it is filled, then no luck to the UG. I mean, this is arcane knowledge, but vital to an UG who wants that class. The downside is a new adviser may have not run across this particular wrinkle (for instance, grad level course that are not part of the MFA req’s do not have this same waitlist, but still need the petition to the prof, yadda yadda.) I have seen both my sons (SCA) work through the system and have come to see the occasional misinformation as what it is: a challenge to their drive and determination. In a school that is overwhelmingly easy and accommodating from registration to making appts to see an adviser to changing majors to meeting w/professors, etc, I have found a little impediment here and there has taught my kids to really look out for themselves–the same lesson as we parents here have learned, which is why we can now look ahead. Basically, I want my kids to take this on for their own futures, so the lemonade I see here is worth it. I’ve seen both of my sons thrive when dealt some bit of stumbling block. But as I said, there are good advisers too. And finding out who they are (asking other students) and arranging to get them is part of the education. </p>

<p>And for what it’s worth, GamerGal, I often find that calling back and asking to speak to someone higher up is worth the try. The folks answering the phones may not truly understand the nature of your complex question/issues. While I’m sure the policy may be to wait for orientation (since most advisers are consulted about questions of course schedules and orientation answers so many questions they simply hope to avoid too many repetitive questions which will soon be answered), your son has a unique challenge and the AU in Paris is a new program for USC which Viterbi simply may not even be aware of yet. So, I will go on record as saying I have learned to politely ask to speak to people more in the know when I’ve had complex questions–which of course is all the time.</p>

<p>CCMThreeTimes, my older son also had Charlotte as his adviser, and she was terrific. I wish they were all like her!</p>

<p>Lastly, I want to mention the emails that the departments send out to the students several times a week. If you are at all concerned that your student will be left out of the loop, have to fend for themself, have their hand-un-held, don’t be. The truth is that email is used as the primary communication device. Each major/School will be sending your student lots of notices of upcoming events, special seminars, new competitions, academic opportunities, new courses, continuing student merit awards advice, meetings and deadlines, offers to advise students on grad program applications, internship fairs, dinners with special guests, film screenings open only to their major, auditions (my son was sent an email offering him a chance to audition for the upcoming Star Wars film–I mean, really!!!) and so much more. If your student will simply open and read all of these emails, your heart will so be put to rest. If your student is too busy to open and read up to 5 emails a day (really), I suggest she/he allow you to receive copies of all her USC email address correspondence. The kids never use this email for personal stuff, but it will mean that you will get to read over all the incredible opportunities (career office free resume workshop, appts to meet with advisers for upcoming registration, etc etc etc). Your minds will be put at ease!!!</p>

9

<p>I agree to let them work things out and by junior year they are in cruise control and have a handle on it, many do long before that or need no help at all as they follow a pretty standard sample plan that each school puts out for each major. The problem with a wide eyed freshman doing anything a bit more complex without a strong adviser is things can be missed that can cost them an extra semester which is a ton of money, even a single class is thousands of dollars, so for me it is worth giving it a look with them. In this case by “launching the helicopter” :slight_smile: it saved pretty much a semester in getting a double major and all the money & time that goes with that. It is also a good habit for them to check the school’s webpage regularly (like Viterbi or whichever school) there is a wealth of info and news on there as well.</p>

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<p>@gamergal27 I actually see why they wait till after orientation to address many issues, they are trying to finish with one class and move an entire new group of freshman in. The admin departments aren’t huge at universities, it is very few addressing the needs of many. You have a ton of questions - and a lot of other people have just as many questions and they are starting in the fall. But most of their questions, like yours can truly wait - things like core/GE requirements, your student just needs to go through the catalog of requirements and get familiar with everything. He will learn more about GEs he wants to take once he talks to students after he gets here. Can’t build this kingdom in a day and they are there for years. The only thing that might need to be answered before orientation is info on classes that transfer if he is taking summer school (and I would love to know that as well). So focus on what is important today, there are very few that can/would want to answer all those questions in a single phone call. It’s not a good use of their time or yours and would be overwhelming in a single conversation (which is why they have people wait till after orientation for most questions). You are taking on a lot at once and maybe trying to address it all too quickly - summer school, travel abroad, switching majors before you start - makes my head spin and I have two there! You rocked through that study abroad stuff so you seem to be a woman of action which is great, but your engines may be too fast for a university system! Good luck, it will all work out…as madbean said, there are tons of great resources there too that you haven’t discovered yet.</p>

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<p>I agree, CADREAMIN. It is not easy to fit a double major into 4 years so anyone with that ambition has to be especially mindful from day one. Students who bring in a lot of AP credit will still not be immune from the need for care, as most AP credits will fall under the elective heading, and students pursuing a double major, or one major with 2 minors often have no room at all for electives. Essentially, they are wasted. The exception is language AP (with score of 4 or 5) and the two GEs that may be replaced by very specific APs (AP Art History and AP European History for one; AP Bio, AP Chem or AP Physics, I think) for the other.</p>

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<p>Right now advisors at USC are meeting with current students as they are now registering for classes for the fall. They may need a couple weeks in order to get through with all these meetings to have time for the incoming class. These new students do not register for classes until orientation after meeting with them anyway. </p>

<p>Now the spring admits might need advising sooner than this-- hopefully they will accommodate these requests. I agree that you may need to go further up the chain to get help. </p>

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<p>Our D has had a good experience with advising. Her Adviser has changed, but she has always been able to get good information when needed. She is a double major, and will complete both in 4 years, with some electives–but she started with a lot of credit due to her high schools rather unique AP/IB program (full IB diploma, with some AP classes). She email a question on Sunday evening, and had the correct answer by 11am on Monday (summer school Problems without Passports).</p>

<p>If it helps, CADREAMIN, this is the kind of thing that makes me crazy, so I like being able to login to OASIS (guest account) and look at the STARS report. Helps me see that she’s on track. It’s a great report that tells you what your student has taken, what is in progress, and what they need to fulfill for each major…I suppose it would do the same for a minor, but our D doesn’t have one.</p>

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<p>Thanks @mom2m, my son emailed his adviser a list of 4 very clear questions after they met last fall. They were questions he had after looking closely at the 4 year plan and was deciding if a double was possible (on his own since adviser didn’t address it). For example, “Could course xyz123 qualify as a tech elective,” nothing that hard. Sent it to the adviser in September and again in November, never got a response. Brought the same list of 4 questions to his 2014 fall planning meeting last week, 6 months after he first asked them. Not sure they got answered there either! So our experiences are really different. OASIS has no value if the correct plan isn’t in place.</p>

<p>So who and how does he ask for another adviser? Of course they fear pi$$ing someone off, it is really awkward for them. Right now he just wants to know if there is a summer course he can take to get this double major party started and he didn’t get any direction on that either. A good adviser is gold.</p>

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<p>Did want to add that this advising thing isn’t a big crisis or drama, just a little inconvenience. Schedule was pretty set for first couple semesters anyway, which is why he didn’t push harder to get answers from someone else. Like I mentioned above, you don’t have to have all the answers at once and this played into his situation as well. Figured he would tighten up the details on his own over summer. It is really important they are the ones familiar with all their options and that can only happen if they grind through the major requirements and course documents. Just found this thread an appropriate place to bring up our hiccup with advising. And as an added bonus it prompted me to ask him and yes, he did get his 4 questions answered at the meeting last week. So progress! While some are better than others, these advisers are probably over-scheduled like everyone else and can only do what they can do. :slight_smile: </p>

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<p>Wow. I am sorry to hear all of these problems. My son’s advisor has been excellent. He worked with DS to make his two minors and a semester abroad all fit in to a CS major. DS is a junior now and they don’t necessarily meet, but DS can email a question and gets a response within 24 hours, even this past week when advisor was out of the country! Sounds like it is really hit or miss on this one. I will say though that DS has never relied on his advisor to do the work. DS (with some guidance from me) has carefully invested the time to do a lot of research himself as making it all work was like a puzzle! The pieces only really fit one way! Most of that was done first year. </p>

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<p>I understand about OASIS and the need for the correct major to be there–I had to nag our D to get her to declare the second major so it would show up in OASIS. She knew she was on track, so she just didn’t want to bother. Good to know he got his questions answered.</p>

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<p>That’s good to remember, now that he got those questions answered he can lay it all out to see if the double works - then he should formally declare it so it shows up on OASIS. Probably wouldn’t have thought of that and would have just meandered along as well. Thanks!</p>

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<p>Advising largely depends on who you get, I’ve seen plenty of deadbeat advisors and had a couple of decent ones.</p>

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<p>Maybe I’m expecting too much? When I was in college I couldn’t decide between two majors. All majors require the same general subset of core courses (with flexibility as to specific classes to fulfill them). So I bounced between two departments before my advisor suggested I double major and work with two advisers. Those advisors then worked with each other to make sure that my coursework pulled double duty where possible. For instance a specific tech course in one department wouldn’t fulfill the requirements for the other. But a similar course in the other department would work for both.</p>

<p>So is it wrong to believe that some guidance would be available in exchange what will cost most families a quarter of a million dollars in tuition?</p>

<p>I wonder if we could return the fundraising letters with a note that says - payable when the questions on advising are answered. (being facetious, but honestly - I’m envious of the family that had the adviser named Charlotte.") And you too, NC Mom. </p>

<p>My D just reported she’s getting reassigned. She pushed the issue. Fingers crossed. </p>

<p>I results are heavily based on who a student gets assigned to. Probably no different that other colleges - but somehow I expected USC to be more on top of this particular issue especially since they made a point of it in their acceptance letter (assigning someone to work with her on course selection for her pre-professional minor). :-(</p>