<p>I am panicking a bit because application time is looming, and would love to hear others' experiences.
S. wants to apply ED to a very good private university. From the beginning it looked like a good match on paper, and after a second visit, sitting in on classes, and visits to about 8 other schools, it is still far and away his first choice. It has a diverse, academic atmosphere that he loves, and strong programs in his areas of interest. He has an 'OK' shot at admission, and is hoping ED will give an added boost. Spoke frankly with his GC, who tells us not to expect much in the way of financial aid until our second heads to college. We have discussed it and think we can handle it (some covered - have been putting aside college money for 8-9 years). If it wasn't for the three others to follow, I wouldn't be as concerned. </p>
<p>Anyway, a good number of people are telling us we're crazy to be considering a private college when there are so many good state schools around, and in fact their children will be applying ONLY to the SUNYs and other state programs. We are inclined to let S. apply to this school, and if he's accepted we'll be happy for him. If he doesn't get in, from our point of view then a good state program would compare very favorably to a second or third choice LAC. Maybe I'm looking for validation for someone to tell us that we're not crazy spendthrifts. S. is a good guy with an amazing work ethic, and I admit this also comes into play. We've seen him work SO hard all through HS, and for right or wrong we feel this is a chance he deserves. Perhaps our friends are questioning if a private education is "worth it"? We are wondering too. Wish I had a crystal ball.</p>
<p>This is a common theme around here - whether paying full retail for the dream school is a good idea. In general, the answer is if you have to ask the question, probably not. Like the yacht dealer snarking, if you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it. But there are lots of considerations and as many different answers as there are different families.</p>
<p>lspf, There are as many “It depends” corollaries to your questions as there are combinations of students, colleges and families. </p>
<p>The first, and to me most important, is it depends on your state. If you live in Michigan, Virginia, California, New York or a few other states with well endowed public schools then you’ve got some evaluating to do. There are other states that don’t offer this same option.</p>
<p>The second is it depends on the kid. I am assuming here that the private in question is considerably smaller than the public choice. Some kids thrive at large universities. Some get lost. I have personal experience here and can say that there’s a big difference in the style of education between the two.</p>
<p>The third is it depends on the family’s financial situation. What is a major sacrifice for some is a minor inconvenience for others. From what you’ve told us you’ve already decided that you can absorb the cost of a private without a severely negative impact. Only you can make this decision. Once it’s made, stop worrying about what the neighbors (or your relatives) think. You will not make them all happy no matter what you do. If seeing your son flourish at a pricey private will give you more pleasure and satisfaction than spending your money on something else, then that should be validation enough.</p>
<p>There can be big differences in quality of education between a public and private ... but it depends on which schools are involved. My son initially chose a private LAC, and his friends all told him he was nuts to turn down a spot at UC Berkeley.... but he wanted the small environment that only a LAC can provide. He attended college 2 years, then took 3 years off - and now has transferred into a far less prestigious public state college ... where he is happy so far, but has noted that the academic level of instruction is very different than it was at the private LAC. Our situation is a little different because we do qualify for financial aid, so the cost of private comes to only about $5000 more per year than public would -- so while money is a factor, the cost differential is not that much either. </p>
<p>I think that you should do what you feel is best without listening to the critics -- I do not know what your son's academic credentials are like, but you might find that a lot of the parents who are proclaiming the virtues of the SUNYs also have kids whose grades and test scores wouldn't qualify them for more selective private schools in any case. Of couse the SUNYs ARE a great value and many excellent students do attend.... but I think the parents of the stronger students tend to wrestle with the issue more, and are less likely to be vocal in their criticisms. After all -- if a parent has a kid with a shot at an Ivy League college and for financial reasons sends the kid to SUNY instead, the parent is probably going to harbor some doubts. </p>
<p>Whatever financial decisions you make are your own business and no one else's. So if you think that the private college is a great fit for your son and you feel you can afford it -- and he is sure that is where he wants to be -- I think in the long run you will be happier if you allow him to apply ED. If you say no -- and he ends up at a SUNY and is not happy there, then you will be forever kicking yourself.</p>
<p>We are also struggling with this issue, private vs. SUNY. In our case it's a bit easier because SUNY doesn't offer a strong program in what D wants to study. Still, we have concluded that applying ED to one of her first-choice privates is not a good idea. We just can't take the chance that the financial aid would be inadequate (both schools she likes have reputations for not-great aid; we're not talking Princeton here!).</p>
<p>I agree with other posters who said to do what you feel is right for your son and your family. Also, regarding financial aid, rather than relying on what your GC has said, maybe you should fill out some online calculators to get an estimate of what you may be entitled to. Make sure to do a FAFSA-style calculator (federal methodology) as well as the CSS Profile. The particular college your son is looking at may have its own online calculator. And if you poke around here on CC, you can get a sense of which schools load you up with loans and which are more likely to come through with grants.</p>
<p>And if you manage to locate that crystal ball, maybe you could pass it around? I would gladly pay 50 bucks for 10 minutes with that thing! :)</p>
<p>My older D is very bright, but did not work hard in school and never had a high level of ambition or interest in academics. She attended a SUNY and this choice met her needs and saved us a lot of money. My younger D is very determined and academically motivated. I am spending a lot of money to send her to a private college. The financial impact is substantial, but I do not regret the decision. </p>
<p>If you are sure you do not quality for financial aid, then EA makes sense. If you do qualify or are applying to a college with a ranking below about the top 25 or 50, I would avoid an EA application. Many very good colleges, below the top elites, offer discounts/merit aid. You are not likely to get their best offer with an EA acceptance.</p>
<p>Point of clarification: do not confuse EA with ED. ED is the one that is binding and could cause problems with financial aid. EA is the non-binding option, and in many cases is financially advantageous because some colleges award more merit money to early applicants.</p>
<p>We were in the position of making the public vs private choice this year. We were glad that our son did not want to apply ED - he was quite sure that he did not want to be locked into any particular school. We do not qualify for financial aid but were very interested in evaluating merit scholarship offers. We researched schools that offered merit aid (no Ivies and very rare in the top 25). Our son ended up applying to two reaches (who we knew would give not $), a few matches and a few safeties (including our state U). We all felt that the top two schools might be "worth it" since they offered a brand name and quality academics - although all the schools he applied to had quality programs. Well, he didn't get into those two "top" schools and his choice boiled down to a few top 50 privates with and without merit scholarships and the honors college of his top 50 state U (at 1/4 the price of the privates due to multiple scholarships). His clear choice was the state U honors program - even though we liked one of the smaller privates! His state U has a top ranked business school and he also felt the honors college would help to make the school feel smaller. Reactions from our friends and family have been mixed. We sometimes hear "Why did he go to state u when he had so many other good choices?". or "He's such a good student, why didn't he apply to more Ivies? ". Here on the East coast, going to state U is viewed as a last choice resort for many. So, some obviously feel he is underacheiving. But of course, we are very proud of him - and so far - he's happy with his choice. Plus, we now hope to be able to retire before we hit 90!</p>
<p>WARNING WARNING - if you have any financial need it is NOT a good idea to lock into ED. Let your son apply where he will, but don't apply ED. (EA is a good option if offered.) Since finances are an issue, it really makes sense to apply to all schools he is considering, then see how the finances look on April 1 with all FA packages in hand. JMHO! ;)</p>
<p>Adding to anxiousmom's warning - if you have any chance at need-based aid, or IF YOUR KID HAS ANY CHANCE AT MERIT BASED AID at schools where s/he might apply, do NOT go ED. The "boost" is ephemeral perhaps and imo not worth forgoing the $$ you might achieve at other schools.</p>
<p>I speak from experience, since we expected no need-based aid, we saw no reason for S not to go ED. He simultaneously received substantial merit $$ from an EA school - a HUGE surprise to us(his ED school permitted EA apps). It was a major decision point and issue. In his case, with his hs GC's aid and support, he was able to undo his ED and choose the EA school, which he loved. But this will not always be possible. Note that, in the relatively short time between submitting his ED/EA apps and receiving the decisions, he had received a lot of contact from the EA school - profs, deans, alums, students - it had elevated that school in his personal rankings quite a bit. IMO, a firm and final commitment by a 17 or 18-year old in the first month or so of hs senior year is premature for all but a precious few.</p>
<p>The pressure to benefit from the ED "boost" is strong (internal and external pressure), but when you see the results for many ED apps, you will begin to question how much of a boost there is.</p>
<p>None of my kids applied/will apply ED because we need all offers on the table before we decide. I think a myth on CC sometimes is that there is only one "fit". I think fit is extremely important, and with S1 we made the decision to tackle a load of debt in order to send him to a school that fit. He applied to 6 schools, and 4 of them were quite good in terms of fit - he would have gone to any of them, based on who offered him the most aid. It was a happy coincidence that his favorite was also one of the most generous. But it was nice to have options.</p>
<p>By way of encouragement to you, S2 got a nice scholarship to his school, but S1's school configured his aid based on 2 in college, without taking into account S2's scholarship. So what we paid was much less than we had anticipated, and I'm so glad we allowed S1 to go there. (He has since graduated, become employed, and is surrounded by a circle of friends who ended up in the same city that he knew from school - the fit continues to matter.) So maybe your other kiddos in line will come into some money!</p>
<p>My advice to you (worth what you paid for it!) is to look for several similar schools, apply to them all (EA if you wish) and wait for the money. Since your S is not a shoe-in for his favorite, I'm afraid ED rejection would be too devestating to him and he would feel any other school was an also-ran. By applying EA to more than one, he still can (we hope) get an early acceptance in the bag, but you get to see aid packages before making a decision. There's the added advantage of your S getting to reconsider his choices after another 6 months of growing up.</p>
<p>I'm of the school that would sacrifice at least a little to send my kid to the college that feels right to them. I know SUNYs are a bargain, but I just can't get myself excited about them.</p>
<p>In the 'dark ages' I went to a SUNY, a true SUNY-one of the 4 universities-at that time. We are fortunate to be able to pay for the private school 'fit', lack of TAs, mostly under 40 student classes, caring administrators, accessable professors, etc. that H and I found lacking in our undergrad experience (not that we realized it then :)). I think fit, although hard to quantify, is very important in the decision. Only one of our three went ED. It was to give the marginal boost, it worked, we are thrilled.</p>
<p>I don't think anybody can get excited about the SUNYs, but maybe it's possible to conjure up a little excitement about the state universities of other states -- which would be intermediate in price between an in-state school and a private university. There are lots of kids from New York and New Jersey (which also has a less-than-glorious state system) attending the state universities of states a bit farther south. The University of Maryland, for example, has vast hordes of them, and it's an interesting place (where else can you get the atmosphere of a big, sports-oriented state university and be only a subway ride away from an interesting major city -- Washington, DC -- at the same time?). Both Penn State and the University of Delaware are fairly easy to get into from out-of-state. The University of Virginia, the College of William and Mary, and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill are much, much more difficult to get into from out-of-state, but they're among the best colleges in the country. </p>
<p>Also (hey, I have to say this because it's my alma mater), is there any way that your son could adjust his interests slightly so that they would fit one of the programs at the state-supported schools at Cornell? That's another intermediate-price-range option for some New Yorkers.</p>
<p>Add UMich to the list of excellent OOS publics - although it is hard to get into. UVA and UNC are indeed VERY tough for OOS students. At my son's high school in PA, students have a better record gettting into Cornell vs UVA. I agree that Penn State and UMD are solid choices if you don't mind big schools, especially if you enter one of their top programs (like business). Also, if you qualify for financial aid or merit, privates can sometimes be less than publics.</p>
<p>Are you willing to spend the same on your younger children as you are your son? That should be a major factor in your decision. While you will receive some aid when more than one are in school, work on some numbers to see what happens when the younger siblings reach this point. Assuming all of the students are good, hardworking students, are you prepared to pay for all of their first choice schools? That is, the same amount you are going to pay for your son-- adjusted for inflation-- for the youngest.</p>
<p>I thought the rule of thumb regarding ED is to only apply that way if cost is not a consideration. I would suggest applying EA if that's possible and widen your search to find more private LAC's that are matches or safeties (look for ones with larger endowments and history of good aid) and apply to them plus your SUNY's. I don't understand the point in applying to colleges like PSU where the oos cost is so high if one is in a state with good state schools. Fall of senior year is a long way from early Spring of Senior year and priorites do change. For my son, location, classroom size and overall feel of a college were priorites at decision time whereas in the fall it was all about the major.</p>
<p>Kathiep- OOS state schools like PSU and UMD may offer $ to offset the higher tution. Especially for top students who qualify for their honors programs. I went to SUNY Albany - and my son goes to PSU (thankfully instate). Although I had fun at SUNY, the professors were remote, the facilities were in poor condition, the food was horrible and there was ZERO campus spirit. Student ratings back this up. It's a different picture at PSU and UMD - facilities are great, and although the classes are large, the professors are known to be friendly and helpful when approached. School spirit at PSU is amazing and most kids LOVE it there. Plus the honors programs make a big difference in the experience (smaller classes, priority registration etc). I think both of these state schools are quite a bit better than the schools in the SUNY system - and it's why many NY students go OOS.</p>
<p>Lots of good advice here. The "private university" your S favors is unnamed, though, so we're missing some possibly useful info. It's hard to know whether applying ED really gives a boost. The stats I've seen seem to suggest this, but the adcoms deny it -- explaining that it's the stronger students who apply ED and thus show higher acceptance rates. D did not apply ED to her strong favorite because of this advice, was wait listed and ultimately rejected. We'll never know if going ED would have made the difference, but I kinda' think so -- she had so much going for her that ED -- a strong indication that she passionately wanted this school -- might well have done the trick. Are you sure that crystal ball isn't handy?</p>
<p>good post celloguy. We had a similar experience with ED. Although my son also had a clear favorite, he really didn't like the idea of committing to one school so early in the process. And he thought he had a very good shot RD. He was waitlisted - then rejected - very dissapointed and, of course, we have no idea if ED would have made a difference. I think there are plenty of stories like this...this is a VERY hard process to figure out.</p>