Students who must attend their safeties

Parents Forum
61

<p>I think I can address the issue you brought up.</p>

<p>In our home, “love they safety” wasn’t an option, because to DD, nothing compared to the top tier schools she was interested in. She was accepted at her safety in Oct. with a full tuition scholarship. Then we visited. During our visit, it was clear to me that this school was not what DD wanted. It was a great school, but it didn’t have the atmosphere she wanted.</p>

<p>Fast forward to March/April acceptance week, and she received a $25,000 scholarship to a private school that she was using as a safety. Then it went downhill. She was waitlisted or rejected at all the other schools except one. That one, Johns Hopkins, meant the world to her. She didn’t receive any FA, so it wasn’t in play, but she told us she was just “so happy” that a top school wanted her. Even the waitlists at two Ivies made her feel good about herself. As she said, “This means that I was the type of student they wanted, they just didn’t have room for me.”</p>

<p>She was in a hurry to send in the deposit to her safety, which we did on April 3rd.</p>

<p>Then it happened. She came to me in tears telling me that her safety didn’t have some critical courses in her major. Long story short, we managed to work through that by contacting the department head in her major, and investigating a summer abroad program that has the exact two courses she wanted. We could afford the study abroad program because of her scholarship.</p>

<p>We had some frank conversations about how she was just okay with her school. It was not what she really wanted, but she knew it was a good school and that she would learn to like it.</p>

<p>Fast forward to the present. She is making friends on facebook with students who will be living in her dorm and has found others with common interests. I don’t think she is ready to admit it, but I can tell that she has completely changed her attitude towards this school. So have I. I’ll admit that even though it has a great reputation, I wasn’t in love with the school…until we visited it in June.</p>

<p>Wow! Now I realize that not only is this a fantastic school, but it’s the best possible option for my daughter.</p>

<p>Everyone on here always says that you end up going to the school you are meant to attend. I was sure that wasn’t pertinent to our situation.</p>

<p>But it was.</p>

<p>I will also say that I hope to never have to go through something like this again. With our younger daughter, we will not encourage her to apply to elite schools. She won’t anyway, after seeing what her older sister went through.</p>

62

<p>D1 has become wise because of her experience. She didn´t end up at her safety, but it wasn´t her first choice either. It was she who told us few months late that she was at the right place for her. It should have been her first choice, and she thanked her lucky start it turned out the way it did.</p>

<p>D1 is advising her younger sister to work hard for the next 2 years in order to have as many options as possible, not to fall in love with any school until after acceptance, and she will end up at a place tha´s right for her.</p>

63

<p>If your kid can’t name 5 things about the safety that he/she thinks are good or great or fun or amazing than move on to another safety. Kid doesn’t have to believe that U New Hampshire and Harvard are equivalent because they are both in New England in order to be able to find some positive things to say about NH. And if not- find another school.</p>

<p>Part of it is perception, part reality , and frankly, part of it is timing. I had a colleague at work come back recently amazed from her college tour with her rising senior… Kid loved Wellesley (reachy math) loved Harvard (surprise surprise), thought Brandeis was ok (match according to the GC) and hated Northeastern. Hated it.</p>

<p>Well- this was just poor planning or lack of google on the part of the family. Once you’ve walked around bucolic Wellesley with the geese and the pond and the architecture and the cute stores and then done Brandeis high on the hill and then Harvard with the brick- don’t show up at the quintessential urban university with a trolley track running through it and expect your kid to have fantasies about the place.</p>

<p>Northeastern is a great school for lots of kids. But it won’t show well after the ivy and the old brick and the gardens.</p>

<p>Ditto for visiting Drexel after Swarthmore or any number of ill-suited mashups.</p>

64

<p>I would never expect a kid who loved Wellesley to want to attend Northeastern.</p>

65

<p>I’m not sure what I think about placing more effort on safeties or reaches. I think you should probably dedicate an equal amount of time to all of them. Especially if finances is a concern, as it was for me. </p>

<p>I applied to 6 schools overall, two of which being safeties. I was rejected at one of the major reaches and accepted everywhere else. The only problem is that I had given very little attention to one of the safety schools and the scholarship deadline passed without my knowing it. If it had come down to it, I wouldn’t have been able to attend that safety because I hadn’t put the effort into scholarships and tuition would have ultimately been too high. Luckily, I was accepted and received great financial aid from a match and a school that was a financial reach/academic match.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure I could have attended my other safety, but it just shows that you need to put the time and effort into the safeties also because it is just comforting to have that backup. </p>

<p>And after all of this I’ll be moving from Colorado to attend George Washington University in D.C. So just make sure you put an equal effort into all of your schools.</p>

66

<p>“It sounds as if you have the academic and financial saftey aspects covered. But if she is only ok with attending, then you still do not have a true safety school. Gotta go back to the list and find a true safety that she would be happy to attend.”</p>

<p>Her safety is a great school and at one point was her top choice. But it is in-state and she would really prefer to be out of state. At this point in time, there is another school that she would be happy to attend, which is my number one school for her. It is her number two school, great fit academically and athletically, and she loved the school and coach when we visited. But it is still not her first true love!</p>

67

<p>FlyMe - what an amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing it. I am sorry your D went through all that, but she sounds like an amazingly grounded person. You must really be proud!</p>

<p>And a tremendous piece of advice comes out of your post: REMEMBER ABOUT STUDY ABROAD!!! As many people have pointed out, if you’re concerned about a certain aspect of a school (such as cold weather) you don’t have to spend all 4 years there! I know a girl at one of our state schools who studied “abroad” at a top U in NYC - best of both worlds, no? </p>

<p>blossom - that’s also great advice. I’m going to try that with my D’s safeties. I can already anticipate a lot of the answers, and I think we’re in good shape. Really, the only things she’s less than excited about with those schools are the fact that they’re nearby (and thus regularly attended by kids at our HS) - as with your D, fishy - and that they’re kind of big (she likes big - BU is her first choice, at 18K students, but these have 25K and 30K). However, they have the following in common with BU: 1) in big cities with a lot going on; 2) exciting and nurturing theater departments; 3) people she respects who go there and like the programs; 4) on the big side, so she can have lots of opportunities and people around, but where she’d be in a small, supportive department; and … I guess this is where I’d have to ask her. I guess 5) could be that she’d be close to family - in Boston, it’s my folks, and with the other two, it would be us!</p>

<p>But while she has some familiarity with these schools, she hasn’t officially toured them yet. Maybe that would be best kept until after acceptances … although these are both rolling admissions that open right away, so she’ll know pretty fast. We were thinking of doing the visits in October or November, when she’s likely to have heard back from them already. BU, on the other hand, she’ll have to wait until the very end of the process to hear from, so we’ll go all year on this decision, I am sure.</p>

<p>This is a great thread! I’m sorry I can’t offer much advice, only take it. My D1 was very fortunate to be accepted to her first choice, and a reach school, ED. She did announce at one point, before her ED acceptance even, that she did not want to apply to a safety (neither a lower-tier private nor our state flagship), and would take a gap year, that her top choices were the only ones good enough. But she says now (rising college senior) that she was being “dumb;” she knows she would have had an excellent education and experience at the flagship, once she got over the chip on her shoulder.</p>

<p>Actually, I think D2 is more mature about this, and that is why she is willing to have these safeties and isn’t as fussy about them. But I won’t go so far as to say that if/when she gets in she’ll drop all of her other applications!</p>

68

<p>My son’s at Princeton. He and I just discussed this. We both believe that had it come down to his safety, UMiami, he would have had a good time. Not as fabulous of an education around abstract concepts maybe, but a good education around other areas and a good time.</p>

69

<p>I don’t like the word safety- I prefer really likely. We are looking for likelies with other redeeming characteristics like warm weather, great campus, great Football team, in or near Big City, etc and where there is merit potential. This has meant we are looking coast to coast. All likelies have to offer a good education and some other hook(s). Yes, we want a hook too. Our state flagship is not one of them- it is in the middle of nowhere. Sure, travel expenses must be considered, but I think it pays to cast the net wide. And… we are having fun, knowing there are so many great schools out there that want S.</p>

70

<p>

</p>

<p>Great advice!</p>

71

<p>I am compiling my list right now… and I must say I really love my super-safety. I will probably attend it in any case, and I am much more likely to receive merit aid (don’t qualify for need-based).</p>

72

<p>Fendrock, I know kids who chose Northeastern over Wellesley and other more elite schools. NE had what they wanted. It is on my son’s list and a school such as Wesleyan would not be, even if he had the stats to have a chance. </p>

<p>I do agree that someone who falls in love with a school like Wellesley, the atmosphere, the LAC courses, is not likely to be interested in NE or other schools that do not have that same feel. But there are alternatives to Wellesley that are not as selective and where a student who is Wellesley material would have a good shot at scholarships. Chatham in Pittsburgh is lovely as is Notre Dame in MD. Both all female schools. Wells is another pick though it has started to go co ed. The search would be for LAC type schools with the same atmosphere and some good academic opportunities. </p>

<p>Just like in all of life’s disappointments, there often isn’t much to do but to get through the pain. Just like being rejected from a first love, losing a job, and really some many other catastrophes in life. May having to go one’s safety be the most traumatic event in our children’s lives.</p>

73

<p>^I think fendrock’s point is that people who “love” Wellesley are unlikely to love Northeastern because the two schools are so different. Not better/worse, just different. I looked at NEU for the NMF scholarship, but then I realized that the atmosphere of the school was totally polar-opposite of my ideal (i.e. I’m going to Swarthmore in a month).</p>

<p>I would tell a Wellesley hopeful to look at the southern women’s colleges (Hollins, Sweet Briar, etc.), which are often underrated. In addition to the obvious coed LAC peers and Seven Sisters, of course.</p>

74

<p>There is a lot of really sound advice on this thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed. There are benefits to not having a “dream school,” just some great schools where you know you will be happy, but nothing with such a hold on you as to have the potential to break your heart. Nevertheless, kids being kids, they dream.</p>

75

<p>Yes, this is a very valuable discussion. This question - however you define it - will probably be on the table in almost every household in this group in the next few months. Most of these kids will at least have to consider “safety” schools, either because of acceptance results, or finances, or both. It’s worth having an idea of how you feel about it in advance.</p>

<p>I agree that “love” for a school before you even attend is very much like a crush. Imagining the situation in that way leads to innumerable analogies - especially how when you actually get to know the person, s/he turns out not to be so great after all, and that dweeby kid who sits behind you in math turns out to have been a much nicer person! Or maybe you do ride off into the sunset and all is wonderful.</p>

<p>D1 went to the school she was in love with. But fortunately there were a lot of hard facts that convinced her it was the right place in more ways than just how she felt about it. And since she’s been there, she has been very honest about what she doesn’t like. She is the kind of person who weighs pros and cons and is willing to accept a balance. And she had found several schools that were similar, that she liked. What she didn’t want, besides staying local, was being somewhere she’d be the top of the pack. That made loving a “safety” very difficult.</p>

<p>I like the “likely” designation. D2 has a “likely” and a “safety” (the 2 I described above). At the “likely,” she is a solid admit (a public where if she applies early there should be no surprises), and she’d be comfortably in the middle of the (pretty respectable) pack. At the “safety,” she is very high in terms of stats, so I think it’s practically a guarantee (another state school that is predictable). She’s concerned about that, a little, because many kids who go there from our HS are the kids whose lackadaisical attitude about classwork has made her crazy all these years. However, she also knows that there is a strong contingent of very capable kids who go there, both for the location and for specific programs. She would be in that group, and for her specific program it’s excellent. So I think she’s pretty “safe” to be plenty happy and satisfied. </p>

<p>The grass definitely is greener in her dreams - living somewhere more exciting and new, meeting more people from other places, having access to resources that are only available elsewhere. That dream will be sad to lose, but just for college. She knows she can always have it in the next phase of her life.</p>

<p>Also, having lived in a rural, less noticed part of the country all her life, she has a mixture of really wanting to get out of here AND pride in our special, unheralded location. Her rebel part might kick in to say, hey, I can do awesome things here in the Midwest and pay a whole lot less money for it. One thing we’ve made sure she’s aware of is how great the people around here are in her areas of interest. I truly believe she’s not being a snob in her choices, just seeking some extra excitement and new perspectives. But her respect of her home region may help her choose - or live with - staying local.</p>

<p>The hierarchies of the college choice are going to be very complicated at our house. But I’ll stick to the subject of “safeties” here. Thanks again for starting this.</p>

76

<p>With daughter’s stats, there really has been no opportunity to classify schools; there are no safeties…she is low on GPA and average to high on ACT (depending on the school) so we have had to approach this process a little differently:</p>

<p>She is only applying to schools she would be willing to attend (that we can afford); she has classified them by what order she would attend them…</p>

<p>sooo, she has three categories:
her favorites (have almost all the attributes she is looking for)
some she liked alot<br>
some she would be perfectly fine attending (that have attributes that may or may not exist in the other two categories)…</p>

<p>We haven’t discussed chances of admission necessarily other than the fact that some of her last category (and are RD only) are probably not happening…</p>

<p>She has eliminated at least 4 schools that she would definitely not attend (at all levels of selectivity)</p>

<p>If I were to even try to classify her schools by the reach-match-safety method, I would be suffering from insomnia…</p>

<p>I must say our Naviance has really kept me from the ledge…</p>

77

<p>We used the term “likely,” too. Safety seemed kind of presumptuous.</p>

78

<p>“Likely” is a better term because safety has gotten a bit overused and some stigma attached to it. In our case, our kids were not really top school material because their grades were not way up there, though they all had something that could be a tip or hook factor. That made things easier in terms of college search, because we started with schools that were likely to take them. With my current high schooler, the first school we toured was Manhattan College, which is a small Catholic school not far from his current school and a place where he is pretty much guaranteed a spot, maybe even with a merit sweetner. Most of the schools we’ve visited are likely or match schools, so that the reach schools just sort of blended in the mix. He looked at CMU when we did the PA/Pittsburgh tour, and it did not make his list. It’s nice doing it this way, because he is visualizing himself more at schools like Duquesne, Pitt, Gettysburg, Fordham, Fairfield and isn’t dwelling on schools where his chances are small and the cost unaffordable. Even with this lot, we will be culling for cost factors.</p>

<p>My cousin came to visit with her son who is the same age as mine, and they did the NY/Boston tour. The young man has test scores in the 1800-1900 range and he is a B+ student with mostly honors courses from a good solid big public high school. When the mom did a quick EFC estimate on our computer, she was shocked to learn that their cost will be about $25K+ which is more than they feel they can afford. Even more shocked when I explained that it didn’t mean the were just going to have to pay $25K either, and given the schools they were visiting, his stats, their income, the EFC, they would only get loans, some subsidized from the government, and maybe work study. Schools like NYU, BU, BC, Villanova, Loyola, Johns Hopkins are not likely to even meet his full need, and getting in is even an issue there. They will be focusing on the state schools from this point on, because even they are going to be pricey for them if he goes away to school. Fortunately PA does have a lot of good choices, but many times starting out with the reach schools, thinking about them, making them the standard is not a healthy thing to do with kids. Better they get comfortable to a school they know they can attend and then start looking for some reaches.</p>

79

<p>For parents of younger students reading this thread, I will say that looking at schools early in the process - late sophomore year or so - that are around an academic match or even a slight reach can have a good effect on a kid who wavers in their grades.</p>

<p>We visited a very nice school spring of 10th grade where my D could find everything she needed, that was test-optional (her favorite attribute!) and about where she was hovering with her grades. She had a great conversation with the admissions counselor, encouraging and a little admonishing. It set her sights positively for junior year. And she still intends to apply there.</p>

<p>Kids who might have doubts about their ability who only visit schools where stats are low could feel their parents don’t have much faith that they will hit a higher mark. But it’s a sensitive balance.</p>

80

<p>Depends on the kid. I think my son would be upset if we started looking at schools that were all reaches and high matches for him. It was comforting to him that the first schools we visited were all schools where he would likely get accepted. His test scores are not high as compared to a lot of his friends and his brothers, and I think that he was concerned that he would not get into a college. It gave him some confidence that things would work out and that he would have a choice of some good schools, familiar schools. Now he is venturing out a little more into reach areas. He knows where he can go, now he’s thinking of throwing in some reach schools if he likes them. For him there was a fear that he was not going to get into a good school. There was so much talk in the air about who was waitlisted, turned down, etc last spring, that it was an issue to him.</p>

<p>Now when you are talking about kids who have very high stats, who automatically presume , and everyone assumes, are going to go to selective schools, it’s a different story. Again, I would not start out with the HPY, ivies and company in terms of college search. Of course, s/he will love HPY. Most kids do. That starts things out at a level that is likely not even reachable. Better to start with some good schools that are affordable, that are near by and are very likely to accept the student with some merit money or generous financial aid. Anyone and everyone can cherry pick the top schools that are hanging in their faces. You can’t open up a college book without seeing these schools listed. It takes no brains, no research, nothing to pick these top schools. And frankly, it doesn’t really matter which one accepts your kid. The prestige alone will wow him and everyone. That’s a big draw. And all of them are excellent academically. Most kids would not care which top drawer school accepts thems, they just want one to come through. The big challenge and mission is to find a school that a kid of that calibre can be challenged and like, is affordable, has some academic peers, has the programs the kid wants. Throw in affordability as well, and that makes for a tough college search. That is where the attention should be focused. These poor kids invest a heck of a lot of time, emotion and thought on the top schools once they are on the app list. I remember one young lady who visited Harvard three times. Each time she visited, more of her emotions were invested in the place. Throw in the interview, the time working on the application, and the ivy conversations, and you can see how a kid can get stuck on a school like that even if it is not Harvard. Then the safety school is barely given any thought or attention and mentioned in a derisive, embarrassed tone. A recipe for disaster.</p>