Summer birthday/school advice

<p>I would strongly suggest a consultation with his current teacher(s) and listen carefully to what they have to say. My oldest was a late summer birthday with a cut off date of Sept. 15. The school district really pushed A-K (a year of half day kindergarten before a year of full day) for all kids born after the middle of July. His pre-school teacher strongly recommended that we put him right into full day. We did and never regretted it, even though because of the heavy use of A-K in our district there were some kids in his class who were almost 2 full years older then he was. He was always at the top of the class academically. The only time we really saw a difference was in middle school. He was smaller then his peers and some of him social interests lagged behind his peers, but social maturity at that age is really all over the board for every kid, so he didn’t really stand out as odd in any way. By junior year in high school he was back on track or even ahead of his classmates in every way. By his senior year he was ready to be done with high school by the end of September. One more year of school may have killed him or me. I am so grateful we had a wise pre-school teacher and that we took her advice.</p>

<p>Same preschool teacher told me that in looking at kindergarten readiness they look for three things: large motor ability, small motor ability, and verbal ability. The as soon as the kids get to kindergarten them tell them to sit down, stop fidgeting and to shut up.</p>

<p>Personally, I started Kindergarten early, as my family was living in singapore at the time. I was going to begin Kindergarten II (yeah, there are two levels of kindergarten, but they start very young) and before I could finish, my family moved back to the states. Despite the fact that I could read, write, perform basic math, and had been picking up mandarin chinese at the time, I was deemed too young to be in first grade, since I was about five or so. (This was even despite my mother showing my American school all my previous work, both english & chinese.) They insisted that I couldn’t read (which makes no sense, since I could write just fine) and started me over for a second year of kindergarten at a Singaporean preschool level. </p>

<p>It may have been something that happened while I was young, but I do always wonder what would have happened had I been placed where my abilities were. (This was even in a multi-age class) My first year of American kindergarten actually ended up involving me being a snot and acting up since I was bored out of my mind. My teacher called home one day after realizing that she had been arguing with me as if I was an adult, and not a child. By the time i got to second grade, I had switched elementaries, and was refusing to read in class. Again, my mom assured I had the ability to, but everyone believed I couldn’t read at all, until I was sent to the reading specialist, and tested several grades above my level. I was then finally put in honors, and I stayed there since.</p>

<p>That may be an extreme, but by simple virtue of the fact that schools try to discourage intelligent children from working at their own level, I’ve been very wary of public schooling in America (If I ever have children, public school will be a last option deal). There are flaws in the Asian schooling system as well, but educating children young (and in two languages) is certainly not one of them. I see nothing wrong with this child going into first grade.</p>

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<p>A lot of school is boring beyond belief, whether or not you can read well.</p>

<p>I was an early reader, as were my husband and one of my kids. We were all bored in school. So was my other kid, who was not an early reader. Does any 6-year-old really want to sit at a desk quietly and fill out worksheets?</p>

<p>I work with K kids tutoring them and I tell you that K today is the 1st grade of yesterday. The majority of kids I tutor are boys with summer bdays…HOLD THEM BACK this is never the wrong decision.</p>

<p>Most of the anecdotes presented here are either about our own experiences (and how long ago was it that we were in kindergarten???) or the experiences of our children (who were probably born in the last decade or two). The children currently facing this dilemma were born only 5 years or so ago. School and social expectations are quite different for this age group.</p>

<p>School and social expectations are quite different for this age group.</p>

<p>I also agree- although it depends on area.
Some places don’t even have recess!!!

Since the state doesn’t pay for all day K, here, either the parents pay, or students go half day, when they may have been in an all day preschool/child care program that had more academics.</p>

<p>Class size makes a huge difference as well.
While we passed local and state initiatives to lower class size, it was also possible for the principal to make the decision to use the funds for " teacher training", increasing teacher pay, and assuming that taking a seminar on classroom management was actually going to be more effective than reducing the classsize.
When my daughter went from a private school with class sizes of 8-10, to public in third grade with class size of 30, it was a big shock.
( their stated class size is smaller- because they use adults who do not actually have a classroom to calculate ratio)
[Does</a> class size matter? An update…](<a href=“SuperKids - Page not Found.”>Does class size matter? An update...)</p>

<p>It’s unfortunate that with the large class size it is more difficult to teach to anything but the middle- and I expect students who excel or need help in some areas are viewed as " problems", as I was, when I didn’t take the expected time to do my work-</p>

<p>I am not suggesting you hold early readers back. I am suggesting you look at their developmental readiness. If a child is not ready to sit still and listen, they are not going to do it, even if they are smart. Motor skills also fall into this category. If a child is not ready to hold a pencil correctly, they won’t, and their fine motor skills will suffer. Poor fine motor gives them a disadvantage on timed writing activities, including tests. My personal experience with many (I’m not saying all) early readers is that they are very good at reading words and not as good at reading for comprehension. A good beginning reading program, even in Kindergarten, also works on comprehension, sequencing, phonics, sight words, along with other components. Good-luck to th OP’s friend with her pending decision.</p>

<p>The football coach will want you to hold him back - that’ll give him another year to beef up. So far the class of 2028 is not looking as strong as the class of 2029. (but that could change - I am hearing rumours about an out-of-boundry exception that plays a mean QB.) Does your friend’s son play offense or defense?</p>

<p>I am surprised that people seem to want a one size fits all answer.</p>

<p>I <em>did</em> want to hold my son back but was convinced by his teacher, his principal and a developmental psychologist that it was not appropriate in his case.</p>

<p>He could read. He could add. He could sit in his seat and learn things. He had good motor coordination. He could cut paper. </p>

<p>I went against the slogans that said, “the gift of time…you can’t hurt them…” etc. People who knew him, who taught him for a year, who presided over his school for three years all said that despite his late September birthday he was ready for kindergarten.</p>

<p>I took their advice, and it had a great outcome.</p>

<p>I did not make this decision in a vacuum because I wanted to push him or because I was unduly proud of his ability to read both books and music.</p>

<p>His preschool teacher (who loved him – I don’t think he ever misbehaved in school to my vast disappointment) said she wouldn’t have him in her class again because it wasn’t the appropriate placement.</p>

<p>He’s not a genius. He was just a very well behaved bright little kid.</p>

<p>I am not generalizing from my experience at all. My first words were, “it depends on the kid.”</p>

<p>I’ll stand by that.</p>

<p>I don’t think this is a one size fits all question.</p>

<p>And I don’t think his friend who did repeat a year at preschool and is now at UPenn is any less bright or suffered at all from this decision.</p>

<p>And by the way, it was the same teacher who said my son should go on.</p>

<p>^^^This is exactly our experience. Talk to his teacher(s), and really listen to what they are telling you about him. “The gift of time” would have driven my son up the wall!</p>

<p>The problem is that you can’t predict the middle school and high school maturity level at the time you are making the age 5 decision. The decision with the most probability of being the right one is to take the extra year. If private school is in play, it’s almost required (at least for boys)</p>

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And I always thought it was cool to be the youngest. I doubt I was ever the tallest, but I was never the shortest either.</p>

<p>My younger son had a July birthday, and for many years he seemed to be about six months behind the program, but I don’t in fact think it had anything to do with his age and had more to do with some undiagnosed, but very mild LDs. He’s about to graduate from high school, got into some great colleges, and I have no qualms about his maturity.</p>

<p>Also as someone who was 16 when graduating from college, I loved having the gift of time. The gift of being able to take a gap year before college and another before grad school when I could enjoy and remember what I did with that time.</p>

<p>My personal feeling with kids is you take them where they are now. If they seem ready they should move on. Age has nothing to do with it. I wish we could have skipped my older son ahead, he would have been much happier.</p>

<p>The problem is that you can’t predict the middle school and high school maturity level at the time you are making the age 5 decision.</p>

<p>This why you make the best decision you can with the evidence at hand. Who would have known that my son would end up being one of the most emotionally mature kids around? Who would have guessed that one his friends who is almost 2 years older still would need guidance at every turn at the age of 22?</p>

<p>As far playing the odds the problem is that while it works in theory, in real life a real child suffers. I know that we made the right decision for our son. I am sure you made the right decision for yours. Any school that would have a blanket policy on something like this is one I would not pay a nickel for, let alone private school tuition.</p>

<p>Around here the public and private school had a revolving door policy. One kid who was not put ahead in K (one of the very youngest) went to the private school to repeat K, and then entered public school in grade 2. Doing very well now.</p>

<p>Another kid didn’t make the cut-off because of her age. Went to the private school because she was extremely mature and they did put her in K, and then went back to public school and they had to accept her because she had already completed a certified K.</p>

<p>My D left private school after fourth grade. She had already done the fifth grade math. The public school gave her a choice of fifth or sixth grade. She happens to have a July birthday. I let her choose. She chose fifth grade and just redid the math. It didn’t kill her because she’s not as good in math as mathson.</p>

<p>D3 was born Aug. 28, '03. Our “deadline” is also Sept. 1. I debated about what to do for a long time and asked every parent of a child with a late summer bday I knew or met what they did. Whether the child was “held back” or “put in”, every single parent thought they’d made the best choice for their child. Our two other children are 10 and 13 years older than our youngest (one year we had a college freshman, hs sophomore and a kindergartner!), so I finally decided that because the little one is tall for her age and because she needed to be around children her age to have her go. For the most part, she does very well. Before the holidays, I felt she was struggling with reading, so I made an effort to concentrate on reading at home, and early this year she made huge growth in that area. No regrets with the decision we made. Trust your instincts!</p>

<p>Two kids with summer bdays here. Neither were held back. Then we moved to a district where almost all of the kids with bdays from Jan to Aug were held back, so while they started out close to a year younger that some kids, when we moved to the new district they were/are nearly a year or more younger than most kids. Older S says he wouldn’t change a thing. He’s happy in a great school and graduated in the top 1% of his class. But when it came to NM scholarship (missed by 2 pts) and opportunities for leadership in HS I did feel that he may have had more opportunites if he were older with a drivers license and a more mature appearance. He was really small in MS but I never saw that as an issue for him socially. As for my younger S he is an athlete at heart and I know he feels he could be more competitive if he weren’t battling the age factor. In 8th grade he did a little fantasy scheming about how he could repeat a second time. In some cases I have felt that academically he may have benefitted from a little more maturity but there are no glaring issues there and socially he is comfortable in where ever he is.</p>

<p>In the end if I were in a district that offers the opportunity for a “catch up” year and it is a fairly large program I would go for it. While we were fine with being nearly a year younger than many kids being nearly a year or more younger than the majority of kids in the grade is a disadvantage on several fronts. Having said that I don’t see that either of them, while very different people have had any major problems. Either way you just don’t know what might have been.</p>

<p>Since OP asked for some longitudinal anecdotes, I’ll offer up the Story of S-2. Born on Dec. 31 in districts with a Jan. 1 deadline meant he’d either be the very youngest by a year, or oldest by a day, throughout his school career. The year of his brith, we lived in Canada which had public Junior (4 y.o.) Kindergarten, so if we had done it all according to policies, we’d have enrolled him in Junior Kindergarten at age THREE and a HALF, put him on a yellow schoolbus for an hour each way in the extreme cold. Mais, non. </p>

<p>Instead, I <em>forgot</em> to enrol him for Junior Kindergarten for a year. The following year, he began JK as the oldest-by-a-day. It went well. We moved districts, fortunately same deadlines applied. New principal, seeing his year of birth, wanted to skip him over Senior Kindergarten and parachute him into First Grade. </p>

<p>I had credibility to argue the decision because I was student teaching in that school. I said: “What’s the issue here? You can’t not let him go through Senior Kindergarten. He needs to cut things, and sing songs!” “But he’s bright.” “So what?” “Well we’ve met parents like you and we think you just want to make him the football captain someday.” “Really. Have you met my husband? (5’6”) and me (5’2") I don’t think we’re raising linemen here." </p>

<p>So I managed to “hold him back” myself, and he had a good Senior Kindergarten year. I also knew from the older 2 that social maturity was not among their blessings, although all 3 are very bright. I wanted the youngest to have a way to mature socially without the added pressure of being both small and youngest-by-a-year forever. For him, it was a good call. </p>

<p>As a teacher I knew that elementary school academics, and beyond, is not a matter of individual work. Much is done in teams and groups. Therefore, even bright kids who lack social and emotional maturity can have trouble getting their ideas across to other students, and find academic frustration that way. Learning in school works like a three-legged stool where cognitive, social, and emotional readiness need to all be in play for a child to be comfortable enough to thrive. Look at how desks are arranged in groups and centers. There’s not as much individual deskwork as in years past. A child who can read and calculate solo beyond his years might not be happy or completely successful in a classroom when he stumbles trying to find a friend, study-mate or science partner. There is no shame in being socially immature, either, even if one is extremely bright. It just takes time for all the pieces to fit together in the early elementary years. </p>

<p>Back to S-2, he did well being “oldest by a day” which helped compensate for his short stature. He is cute and loquacious. He never had a confidence crisis throughout middle or high school. What surprised us was he determined to graduate a year early from h.s. (in collaboration with the guidance counselor; we didn’t know until the courses had all been arranged!). He hoped to gain an extra year for a Gap Year between h.s. and college, and certainly had earned the right to that time. Unfortunately, the college that accepted him would not allow a gap year for anyone, so he had to go directly to college. Now, true to his past, he’s figured out how to graduate college in 3-and-a-half years rather than 4, saving us a semester’s tuition. Perhaps the one year of extra time to gather early social/emotional confidence helped him all through his schooling in middle, high school and college. It didn’t hurt, I know that much. </p>

<p>Dear OP, you might want to find out whether the K-1 is based upon birthdays or academic performance. In the schools I taught, they generally pegged the socially immature kids for the “one” part of the K-1 (which had some correlation to birthdays but not always). It’s possible the socalled “behavior” problems mentioned above are just that: less age-mature young kids who completed K, that the school wants to give a break and not pressure by sending them to a regular all-grade-one setting. </p>

<p>Gender is a factor because the fine motor skills of girls are about a year ahead of boys at that time of life. So if you put a boy aged 6 (born late in the year) right next to a girl age 6 (born early in the year) they are both “age 6” but she might be nearly 2 years ahead in terms of how she can write, cut, color and so on. He looks over to her work and feels…not smart. It’s not true but that’s what he feels, comparing his work product to hers. For that dynamic alone, the invention of K-1 multi-age classrooms is a blessing for some of the younger boys. </p>

<p>Often the multi-age classrooms are considered harder to teach with success AND SO a top-quality teacher is assigned to it. Another factor: if the reading program is based on small-groups with advancement at each child’s pace (for example, Guided Reading Level Books), your child will advance in reading at his own pace in either situation. If instead the entire class reads from a single collection of story-books all at the same pace (Open Court), then a bright reading child would feel more held back. If there is any history between the K-1 class versus the Grade 1 class in terms of how high a reading level was reached in the leveled books, that might tell you something. For example, if the K-1 top readers got up to Level G/H by June, but the Grade One top readers were into levels R/S, then you can assume there is some kind of ceiling on the amount of reading and intellectual level of the K-1’s. If you see no appreciable difference, then likely they really are doing it for social/emotional maturation and your child won’t be held back cognitively by having younger students occupy half the room. </p>

<p>The work should be very different between the K’s and 1’s in Math. It’s easier to gradate the reading in a multi-age classroom than the math, as long as it’s a progressive reading program that lets kids advance at their own pace (e.g., Guided Reading/Leveled Books). If there’s really a math program written for multi-age classrooms, I don’t know it, but it is needed. The mutli-age classroom teachers I saw (real aces!) made a seamless spectrum for reading K-1, but had to teach two math curricula, separating the class, and using aides. All the rest – circle time, social studies, science projects did seem to flow together nicely with both ages participating. It was the Math that was the most challenging to teach both. </p>

<p>The research can show us a great deal, but after all this I conclude this is a time when the parent actually does know the child best and should be in charge of the decision based on intuition and intimate knowledge of the child. Honestly I most admire some districts (I believe in Pacific Northwest) where they don’t have deadlines. Rather, they make a Sept. 1 cutoff, and for any child born over the summer tell the parents they can decide whether they think their child belongs as among the youngest, or wait to be among the oldest of the next year’s class. Sept 1 works better than Jan 1 for that more flexible program. </p>

<p>My conclusion, as parent and teacher: this is really the time to trust your instincts. Don’t worry about the prestige of either class, unless you find that the K-1 is really a ceiling for the less bright students. If it’s truly based on social/emotional maturity, it gives some children a chacne to grow into themselves. Be sure there’s no barrier to the better Second Grade from the K-1; ask for evidence of children who went that route.</p>

<p>“Her son has done well academically and there are no major concerns other than his age. The boy is very bright and on the taller side. Although there are no issues right now, I am concerned about problems developing in the future, having been through this with my own son(now 24).”</p>

<p>I honestly think that you should back off and let the Mom and the teacher make this decision. Just because your son may have had problems, it’s not fair to make the assumption that her son will also. Her son has done well academically and there appears to be no major concerns by his teachers. </p>

<p>Try to let go of the “what ifs” that you have regarding your own son.</p>

<p>I teach kindergarten… if a child is socially and academically doing fine, and tall for his/her age, her or she should move up to first-grade. JMHO! And the stigma of repeating or “failing” kindergarten carries on with the children through the grades. While they may not discuss it or understand it fully in kindergarten, by first grade they do…</p>

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So students who would be turning 6 in kindergarten in January were held back?! Is it becoming the norm to have 19 year-old high school seniors? This is worse than the tony New England private school I mentioned earlier.</p>

<p>Is this a public school system in Texas?</p>