I missed the part that she didn’t bring her financial information with her. OP should follow up with next steps.
At the same time, she is not obligated to enroll her kid if the FA should fall short. I do agree with that the best source of reliable information about the school is its own officers, and if they should misrepresent themselves then OP even has more of a reason to walk away.
I am also not hearing any FA rep telling people not to apply if they need FA or they would be obligated to accept if the FA is within ballpark.
“I am also not hearing any FA rep telling people not to apply if they need FA or they would be obligated to accept if the FA is within ballpark.”
No one said that a FA officer had said that.
WE said that they should not apply if they need FA.
No, some people said OP’s kid should not apply if they need FA. I didn’t because I do not agree.This is just one school. If the FA is not sufficient should the kid get accepted. She could decline and apply to other RD schools. I am sure there will be other schools very similar to this ED school. If the FA is sufficient then she is done, what does it matter if other schools may offer her more FA, unless the objective is to look for cheapest school possible.
Misunderstandings can sure occur even with careful reading, but it’s a shame they occur from less-than-careful reading.
No oldfort, I am not implying the OP is acting underhanded. I will try to clarify. True, my posts have been more directed to what I see as the morality aspect of the promise to attend through an Ed. My posts are a different perspective than those whose intent are more to help educate the Op on financial realities. It is my opinion that anyone that does not do thorough, realistic, diligent, research of all avenues on expected costs and $ limits is failing to meet what I consider the honor part of the promise to attend if accepted. What if I walk up to a Cadillac dealer and offer 40k for a car advertised at 50k? Suppose he accepts, but then I say- sorry-, I don’t have 40k. I may not have broken laws, and I may not be obligated by law to buy, but I did not negotiate in good faith.
Sybbie gives a wonderful financial example in post 52 of an FA offer that is close, but falls short of what the applicant hopes for.
This leads to defining unaffordable. No, I don’t think it reasonable for mom to have to sell a kidney to make a school affordable. But the extra 5k in Sybbie’s example? Prob yes, there is probably some cutting back and student participation that could reasonably make it happen, if the school is truly as desirable as stated.
The POTENTIAL underhandedness of ANY prospective applicant as I see it, would be based on these 2 reasons- Either the student made the promise without thorough research and therefore too impetuous to be considered in good faith, or, if a family is disappointed with the FA offer and making it work is more difficult than they hoped- then they use the word unaffordable and renege. Just saying- I don’t like the offer is truly not the same as unaffordable. That is why I suggested EA rather than ED, to avoid the honor-obligation part.
The OP indicates she is in early stages of the research and student has not yet made the promise to attend if accepted. Nothing underhanded about that.
" I didn’t because I do not agree."
different strokes for different folks…
oldfort- ED worked for your children, and that’s great, but every year many others do not have the same happy outcome.
Those of us cautioning the OP have read the same posts on CC over and over again.-
“My parents cant afford to send me to my ED school!”
"My child is heartbroken but we had NO idea how many loans the college would expect us to take out!! . its just too expensive to send her there! "
etc,etc…
“what does it matter if other schools may offer her more FA, unless the objective is to look for cheapest school possible.”
It matters to a lot of parents who cant afford to fork over tens of thousands of $$ or take out loans in order for their child to be able to go to college.!!
So we say - applying to an ED school if your need FA, ESPECIALLY if the FC’s suggest that you wont be able to afford to send your child there, is a waste of time.
@younghoss - what you say would only apply if the school were to tell OP what the FA would be, OP’s kid then applies ED, the school comes through, and OP declines the offer. For some people 5k may just be a modest family vacation, but for people 5K may mean a lot more. It is why so many families were not able to participate in ED, but now more families could take advantage of ED.
Now, you are understanding me, oldfort. You are now helping to show my point. (post 65). Let’s remember where the 5k came from. It wasn’t some number I just made up, or something based on median U.S. incomes of all families. The 5k number I used was based on Sybbie’s example of a school where costs were 65k, the EFC was 20k, and the ESTIMATED shortfall was 13k… I feel a student/family knowing that, and reasonably being able to afford it, as demonstrated in her example, could find a way w/o selling a kidney to get the 5k.
Certainly 50k is far different than 5k, and to a poorer family 5k means more. But neither of those were Sybbie’s example, and my number referenced her example.
It is hard for people to judge what 5K means to someone. Just because someone could stretch 13K, doesn’t mean 18K is doable. To you 25k maybe far different than 5k, but for some it may be what’s the difference.
That touches on my point oldfort. Referencing on sybbie’s example again, if a family can do the estimated 13k shortfall, but if they truly could not meet an 18k shortfall, then maybe their budget is so tight that (in that example) maybe the family should not promise to attend if accepted. Let’s remember, Sybbie’s example is an estimate. Any reasonable person knows an estimate could finalize higher or lower.
The family can promise to attend if it is financially feasible, which is clearly stated in the ED agreement. It is not for us to figure out what is financially feasible for any family. It is precise the point that ED option should not be for just the rich. This is coming from someone who has paid full fare for private education from K to college.
Even when your D1 and my D were applying/attending college, there were calculators on the school websites so you could have an idea as to how much you would have to pay for school.
Now there is even more information available for families to do their due diligence and know before even submitting the application.
Would you want someone to commit to doing something for you, while at the same time, look for a loophole not follow through on the commitment? It is essentially the same mindset; apply ED and if you get accepted and the money is not right, you can back out of it. However, if you do your due diligence on the front end, you would have a pretty idea whether or not the money is going to be right.
Oldfort, you are a very financially savvy person; you knew coming out the gate how much it was going to cost to send D2 to to her first choice ED school. You knew you were going to be full pay (as you stated, your were full freight payers from K to college). You were comfortable with the what you had to pay and the decision to apply ED and pulled the trigger. it worked for your D2, game over, chill until time to go to school. However, this is not OP’s situation.
OP has said, that she is concerned that their money is not going to be right and they may not be able to afford the school (which is why she started the thread).
Back when my older kid was applying to schools, there was no such clause for people to decline if it was not financially feasible, therefore if you couldn’t afford full fare then you really were in no position to apply ED. It was a rich man’s option. That particular clause (decline if it is no financially feasible) was added more recently. It was added to level some playing field, so more people could participate in ED.
So her kid should apply, then find out if it is affordable. If not, then move on to other RD schools. Not sure what’s the harm.
There were clauses to let you out of ED when my D applied to college. I remember at that time Columbia’s clause specifically allowed you an out to attend your state university (if we could still searching the old forum, Mini used to be famous for telling people what the out clause was)
The thing was at that time people did not apply ED unless they intended to attend and very few people applied ED while looking for an out clause. One of the biggest reasons people did not try to get out of ED was the joint Ivy statement that said if you were admitted ED during the ED round and declined that you could not be picked up at another Ivy during RD. that policy was much more adhered to
There must be very few instances of students turning down ED because of finances…because schools continue to offer ED with the affordability escape clause. I suspect what happens is that the acceptance is bright and shiny. Emotions are high, everyone is excited that the applicant has been accepted to the student’s top choice. It’s often the very first admission result. And then the parents are swept away into saying that they will make the finances work.
I’m somewhat stunned to see how many students treat ED as a normal part of applications season. On the selection and admissions forums, the ED posts used to be “should I apply ED?” Now, they’re “which of these five schools should I use my ED for?” No clear preference for a school let alone any understanding of the financial issues. But some college counselor has told them that they should use ED to boost their admissions chances, so by golly they figure they have to apply ED.
“Not sure what’s the harm”
the HARM is that students who CAN’T afford to pay full freight for college will LOSE the opportunity to COMPARE FA offers IF they apply and are then accepted!
Those who apply EA and RD HAVE that option!
Am I missing something? 
Yes you are, because you are focused on “COMPARE FA,” meaning you are looking for the cheapest alternative. For some people, it is not the only driver. They are looking for an affordable, best fit school for their kid. If their EFC is 20K, and the ED school (first choice) school is able to come through with enough FA for EFC to be 20K, they are not looking for EFC of 18K. At the same time, if the ED school doesn’t come through with enough FA, the family can walk away and pursue other RD schools.
That’s no longer the only out clause, and how we advise students/families on CC should be different now. It doesn’t have to be, “if you need FA, don’t apply ED.”
I think top tier schools are meeting needs of EDers as well as RDers, but I am seeing more instances on CC where students had to walk away from ED because of affordability. It is usually after a family has looked at all alternatives. I am not seeing people gaming the system because of this out clause. I wouldn’t be surprised schools that do not meet 100% need are pushing (deferring) students who need FA to RD.
ED does boast applicant’s chance at many schools, and affordability is a factor when it comes to admission sometimes. If you are qualified for a small amount of FA or close to none then it is better to not apply for FA.
Actually for many of us who cannot afford full pay, we need FA comparison to determine what’s affordable, not necessarily the cheapest alternative.
OP, listen to Sybbie. Her advice has always been clear and spot-on. If you are seeing a much higher estimate on the school’s NPC, use that for the basis of your decision. If that’s unaffordable, look for other options.
ED is not going to shrink that amount of money all that much. Parents get caught up in their child’s dream - it’s hard to say no upfront.
Apply EA, rolling or RD, but don’t do ED. Even if you follow the “we can turn it down if it’s unaffordable” approach to ED, it still makes for a miserable Christmas if your child is accepted ED and FA is unaffordable (which you knew upfront!). Apply RD to the dream school, that way it’s just one school among several options. That will minimize the sting of saying no to the unaffordable “dream” school.
@momrath
<>
Yes!
[QUOTE=""]
Apply EA, rolling or RD, but don't do ED. Even if you follow the "we can turn it down if it's unaffordable" approach to ED, it still makes for a miserable Christmas if your child is accepted ED and FA is unaffordable (which you knew upfront!). Apply RD to the dream school, that way it's just one school among several options. That will minimize the sting of saying no to the unaffordable "dream" school.<<
[/QUOTE]
I’m going to reach out to the FA counselor again this week. What I want clarity on is THEIR understanding of what the EFC is, and whether THEY think applying ED would make any significant difference in the financial aid package for my daughter. We’re talking about one specific school and one unique student–all the generalizations and data in the world only go so far. (For example, there are five Legacy scholarships in the amount of $20K available at this school–how will we know if she wins one of those without applying? And I’m certain ED would be an advantage in that regard.)
If the answers to those questions lead to an out-of-pocket we can’t possibly meet, then applying to this school at all may not make sense. If they DO, however, I don’t see any reason to delay the application as long as we’re ready with backup plans should it not work out. ED has a range of advantages beyond the financial, it seems to me, if there is a clear first choice that everyone wants.
In some instances, it may make sense to actually submit some of the other applications.
For example, in my state, our state university gives preference to students who apply before November 1 in terms of merit scholarships, placement in honors programs, and other bells and whistles. So even if a student is applying ED elsewhere, it makes sense to submit the full application to the state university if it’s on the student’s list.