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<p>The difference is that your parents presumably gave you no expectation that they will help pay for your college, while the OP’s parents apparently hinted that they “will figure it out” when asked early on. So you presumably planned for self-funding your college, while the OP naively assumed sufficient parental contribution and got let down, a recipe for conflict and resentment.</p>
<p>^^ You’re right - there was no expectation of financial support. My ‘planning’ for self-funding consisted of securing a job in my college location and working lots of hours so there wasn’t a lot of planning although there was some risk. I agree that if the parents said they’d ‘figure it out’ it implies some level of support to at least make it work. Hopefully what they had in mind wasn’t that the solution would be that the parents would decide to contribute nothing and leave it to the kid to figure out how to go from there.</p>
<p>*I am curious to know if Op’s parents have all this money, how did he end up with a 6K EFC? *</p>
<p>Maybe I’m reading too much between the lines, but in the first post, the OP mentions that his parents have access to relatives’ money. Later, when asked if he could borrow money from relatives, he said he had few relatives and some had dementia (or something like that).</p>
<p>The OP tells us that his family has always cried poor, now they’re disabled, but now the parents seem to be living high on the hog…dinners out, pricey cars, etc.</p>
<p>Hmmmm…not much real income, access to money of relatives that are mentally incapacitated, and the parents are blowing money left and right…but don’t want to help with college (even though THEY are college educated). I could be on the wrong path, but this sounds stinky.</p>
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<p>Presumably, your planning also included college choices with costs low enough to work your way through college.</p>
<p>Actually, the more I see threads from students who cannot get a clear answer from their parents about what the cost limit is, the more it seems to me that every student should have a very low cost safety in his/her application list in case the parental contribution turns out lower than what the parents led the student to believe during application season.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Very true. It seems that when parents are vague or giving answers like “we’ll deal with that when the acceptances come in” then those responses are big red flags that they have little idea of how costs will get paid and are hoping that some acceptances happen to come with surprise financial awards or they think their child can borrow his way thru. </p>
<p>Students also need to be leery when they’ve only heard positive responses from one parent. Sometimes one parent can be overly-optimistic about how much the family can pay (maybe that parent isn’t the bill-payer or gets caught up with the prestige bug), and then the other parent brings down the hammer and says, “no way, we can’t pay $60k per year…we can only pay half that (or whatever).” And, at that point the student hasn’t applied to the right schools. :(</p>
<p>Our kids have a spreadsheet showing college costs, automatic merit aid they will get and how much we are willing to help–they have to figure out the rest…</p>
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<p>I’d like to meet these students you’ve talked about paying their way through college. I’d imagine that if you had the same keen knowledge of their finances that you expect me to have about my parents’, you’d see a different story. I’d wager that if you saw the outcomes on an aggregate level, rather than anecdotally, you’d likely see things differently. </p>
<p>Many are also very quick to tell the government and others to get their noses out of parenting, and yet they treat the “18=adult” like it came down from Heaven on a stone tablet. In fact, 18 is not the age of majority in all U.S. states. Today, successful completion of postsecondary education has become a prerequisite for success for all but a small minority. In some states, including my own, a parent could preclude his or her 16-year-old child from attending high school. That does not mean it’s an acceptable use of discretion. </p>
<p>Shirking one’s parental duties by effectively denying a kid the chance to attend school unless they can cover it with someone else’s money (i.e., private scholarships) is not a generalizable imperative for all students—it’s not a matter of individual students “just working hard enough.” And before we find ourselves in nonsensical discussions like “Students should only get as much education as they can afford [on their own],” let’s remember the positive externalities of higher education that our society enjoys as a result. For students who don’t have the resources, society and strangers are willing to chip in a bit—for those who do, parents are simply asked to do their part (at least at schools that meet 100% of demonstrated need).</p>
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I have been on CC since my freshman year of high school and I have seen plenty of horror stories about paying for college. I feel that I did my due diligence in talking to my parents about finances. The expenses I’m incurring are effectively non-curricular: they pay a small portion of the amount it costs the university to offer me a meal plan and housing, in addition to travel and other expenses. Even a full-tuition scholarship, then, would not have changed my situation. </p>
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<p>Thanks for the tip. I think if I can create a visual representation, they’ll be more likely to help me with costs. And if not, maybe I could share the spreadsheet with a trusted mentor to find ways I could cut costs. </p>
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<p>I’ll PM you.</p>
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<p>But it looks from your story that you accepted your parents’ answer of “we’ll figure it out” as meaning that they will contribute the EFC, when they are actually contributing less, correct?</p>
<p>Yes, plenty of students have parents who are unable or unwilling to pay the EFC calculated by financial aid offices; students who are well informed of that ahead of time can plan their application lists accordingly.</p>
<p>“The money is out there–just not at Harvard, Yale, etc” - That’s not so bad… from what I hear they have the best FA. </p>
<p>There are many college merit scholarships out there (as long as you are not set on the almost-ivy schools). The issue is just that the list prices are so darned high on all of them. </p>
<p>We have many local scholarships around here too. The vast majority have a need component. That’s probably the fair way to do it, but it didn’t help DS.</p>
<p>I’ve read that the recent use of Net Price calculators on college websites is helpful. Sounds like a great improvement over a few years ago, where only a few schools advertised the merit criteria.</p>
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It wasn’t that the college costs were low enough since those costs were covered by loans which I paid back for some number of years after graduating. The ‘working my way through’ boiled down to earning enough income to cover housing/food/car/insurance/gas/etc. which I managed to do. </p>
<p>This is what most people who pay their own way do - the income from the job during college covers the living expenses and the college costs are covered by loans which need to be paid back after graduation.</p>
<p>The college costs had to be low enough that you were able to get loans to cover them.</p>
<p>This is what most people who pay their own way do - the income from the job during college covers the living expenses and the college costs are covered by loans which need to be paid back after graduation.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, that only works in states that have public school tuitions that are low enough for student loans to cover them. Many, many states’ tuitions are higher than the max student loan. </p>
<p>I wish that the student loan rules would change. If students could go to a CC for two years and borrow nothing, then they should be allowed to borrow $14k per year for jr and sr years. That would cover state tuition in nearly every state.</p>
<p>Just how much lower does this kid want with an EFC of $6000…get a job, over a year you can easily earn that at minimum wage. Again, I want specifics on these gifts, where the money is coming from to pay for this food he has to buy, etc. You are attending a school with a COA of over $50,000–how is that due diligence?</p>
<p>I paid ALL of my own college, my husband did the same, our kids are paying for most of their own college not because we can’t but because it is THEIR education and we believe that they need to have a skin in the game. Their “paying” is mostly from doing well in high school and earning scholarships but they also will be expected to work long hours over the summers to earn as much as possible. Our older two were able to manage that quite nicely, with loans, scholarships and summer earnings. They worked about 50 hours/week over the summers and had on campus jobs during the year. It is easily done…unless you only apply to $50,000/year schools and have to have the right name on your sweatshirt. Our oldest managed to graduate with about $5000 in student loan debt and is about $500 away from paying that off after just a couple years. Next one has about $15,000.</p>
<p>I haven’t talked to the kids, they are kids of friends of ours and we have shared information about net costs of various schools, etc. as part of the planning process we have all gone through over the past many years. We have talked about various scholarships kids have gotten at various schools, good and bad, to share information about possible choices for younger children. One family steered us away from a school our youngest was considering after their 35 ACT, 4.0 student got $3000 from that school-with an overall COA of about $45,000 for one example. He got a full tuition scholarship from the school he is now attending and a couple local scholarships that pay for about 1/2 of his room/board/books. He is taking out loans for the rest and will have about $15,000 in loans when he graduates.</p>
<p>My kiddos are also in the group that were responsible for paying for their own undergrad degrees and now currently their grad school.</p>
<p>They knew from an early age and planned accordingly. Most graduated with no debt and the few that did are a very minimal amount. It wasn’t a choice, it just was what is was.</p>
<p>We as a family did move from a pricy state school state (CA) to a very affordable in-state publics with 16 campuses to pick from including Chapel Hill (NC). I knew I wouldn’t be able to help them with college expenses but could make other choices that would make it easier.</p>
<p>My kiddos explored every avenue in order to attend college and all the expenses associated. Attending community college while still in high school allowed for no-tuition or book expenses while building college credit, daughter transfered in 72 units. Same daughter obtained departmental scholie’s that she researched ahead of time and discovered the 4 year uni allowed students to reside in their research labs (7 of them) if they performed 10 hours of work per week free of charge, full kitchen so food was at a minimum. She bought used books from other students and sold them as soon as she was done. She tutored, worked on a ranch training horses and mucking stalls while carrying 20+ semester units every semester so she could graduate early, while maintaining a high GPA in order to go to vet school, and meet all her pre-vet requirements…Ochem, physics, biochem, micro, chem, bio, genetics. And yes, she paid for every penny and left with no debt and graduated early, with honors. </p>
<p>Can it be done? yes, was it easy…that would be a huge, NO…but she has 4 more brothers and sisters and the same was expected of them. They applied to many schools and a large variety. They were accepted to service academies, West Point and the Naval Academy (no cost, no loans), to OOS publics on athletic scholies, to ivys with outside scholie’s to help defray other expenses (applied to over 50 outside scholarships)and to small LACs where their financial aid was preferentially packaged. They appied for and received ROTC scholie’s to schools of their choice, MIT and Princeton and they applied to their local 4 year school’s that would be commutable and to their community college in case the money just wasn’t there.</p>
<p>Of the five kiddos only 1 has not taken any community college courses. He took his summer school courses locally at our 4 year and far on the other side of the country after his matriculating school agreed to pay for the courses since they do not offer summer school or the courses he wished to take. Their dime, not his.</p>
<p>He is now attending medical school, he is solely responsible for the cost. he was responsible for the monies to apply, pay for the MCAT, travel to all interviews all over the country. And he did. He also took a gap year, after graduating from an ivy, and completed 2 more degrees (STEM) and another minor in that time and again paying for every cost himself. No loans, TA’s, research funds, tutoring and working with a physician.</p>
<p>Come time for med school and he had several to pick from including several ivys which he turned down, BECAUSE of the money. One school made him an offer, better than HMS need-based financial aid and he went with that, turning down the prestige for a fantastic lucrative offer. And when others are looking at $250,000-$350,000 in med school loans his well under $30,000 for all of med school. Throwing in a free MPH from the #2 school doesn’t hurt. Receiving money for med school in almost unheard of and yet he recived a few merit offers. The need-based schools truly ranged in packages.</p>
<p>The point of this is…yes there are plenty of people paying their own way through college, my kiddos went to school with plenty of them. Middle daughter’s school has over 80% of their students receive Pells, huge differentce from son’s school where 6% receive Pells. And many at the community college they attended were paying their own tuition including their living expenses and supporting their families.</p>
<p>OP, start thinking outside the box. Cut your expenses to a bare minimum. Your college experience is what you make of it. Don’t be wishing for what others have.</p>
<p>Your bitterness is clouding your ability to see what might be a better gift than your parents gifting you the money. Take off your blinders, step outside yourself and really scramble. </p>
<p>People ask often what made my kiddos do more, without any prodding? because they had to if they wanted something different. No cell phones here, no driver’s licenses before 18 and they had to pay for it themselves, until college only 1 second-hand computer in the house, 1 car for 6 people, 2-3 bedrooms for 6, no i-pods,i-pads, no game systems…but honestly they had no time for all that, they were too busy with school work, tutoring, sports practice, games, meets, coaching, volunteering…and all that turned into scholarship money down the road.</p>
<p>Good luck to you, and imagine the feeling when you find a way to accomplish this on your own. It can be done!!!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Kat,</p>
<p>Great post as usual.</p>
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<p>This is the reality for the majority of students and parents in the country; students attend college where their money can take them at schools which are financially feasible options for the family. Nothing nonsensical, just fact.</p>
<p>There are plenty of parents/students who have had to turn down colleges because the money just did not work out.</p>
<p>I personally feel that paying 60K for cars without paying college bills is wrong, especially since you can get a perfectly good car for 15K or less. I would feel that I am shirking my parental responsibilities. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, it’s a choice OP’s parent’s made, and nothing anyone, especially their child, will convince them to make different choices. With disabilities, I suspect they may be focused on the few things that give them joy, such as going out to eat. I suspect the parent’s truly feel they are doing the best they can.</p>
<p>kat:</p>
<p>Wow. What your kids have done is very impressive.</p>
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Actually it was at a private school. I don’t remember the details since it was a long time ago and it’s possible loans worked differently back then but again, taking into account inflation, it was more than the OP’s talking about. I wouldn’t have been able to go to a much more expensive school yet there were less expensive choices available as well. Just like I wouldn’t have purchased a car beyond my means, I also wouldn’t have attended a college beyond my means (by ‘means’ I’m including loans I was able to acquire). </p>
<p>The point isn’t really what I happened to do, the point is to work with what you have. The ideal situation in the OP’s case would be for the parents to step up since they implied some level of support and although we’re only seeing a very one-sided presentation of the parents’ actual income/expenditures, if it’s true that $60K in new cars were just purchased (although if they’re specially modified vehicles to accommodate disabilities it could account for some of the cost) and a lot of meals are restaurant meals, and especially since they both have doctorates and therefore should know a thing or two about college, then maybe they’ll end up stepping up to this.</p>
<p>We can’t judge either the OP or the OP’s parents too much because we don’t have adequate details and don’t know both sides of the story. But it doesn’t really matter, the OP needs to work through a plan A, plan B, and maybe even a plan C.</p>
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<p>Your responses leave me with the feeling that you aren’t critically reading posts on this thread. The conjecture that $6,000 in a minimum wage job can easily be earned in a year is not based in reality. We live in a small town and no one is hiring for summer or temporary positions. There simply isn’t an opportunity to work 50 hours a week there, even among several jobs. Yes, you can post house cleaning or lawn-mowing services, but professional companies are already going door-to-door with professional training and experience at practically minimum-wage prices. And even if you could manage a reasonable number of hours a week, $6,000 of post-marginal-cost, take-home pay is no easy feat.</p>
<p>I’m doing my due diligence. I got into Emory and they’re paying everything but my basic living expenses. I don’t understand why your posts seem opposed to selective schools. My situation would be much worse at a public school. When so many other underclassmen, even at top schools, are struggling to find summer positions that aren’t offered on a silver platter by their parents, I have a well-paid internship. But, again, their are costs involved–particularly housing. I already have a job during the school year–there simply isn’t time in a week to take on another job on top of a rigorous, full-time schedule.</p>
<p>And again, even if I get another job, my financial aid at Emory will decrease because of it (unless you’re asking me to lie on the CSS profile). Additional outside scholarships would again decrease my financial aid award. I worked a job in high school and I brought in a few scholarships my first year. The money I saved up helped me to cover some of my expenses the first year (in addition to the loan I took), but, again, a large portion of that money was already assessed as a resource I could use for college.</p>
<p>So you’re telling me that not only do parents have no obligation of any kind to help their kids after the arbitrary age of 18–they ought to just them out and wish them well–but they don’t even have any obligation to make any effort to meet keep their word?</p>
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<p>If my parents made less money, then I wouldn’t be in this situation. Rather, I would be in a situation similar to your kids: all of my costs would be covered by the school I’m attending. Also, it sounds like you were honest that you didn’t have the money.</p>
<p>I’m asking you to give concrete examples of this neglect you are claiming. Without figures, it’s hard to really give you any advice and quite honestly, most kids I know that are your age don’t get even basic living expenses paid for by their parents any longer. They often live at home during the summers but they buy their own clothing, toiletries, pay for their own entertainment expenses, etc. I guess I just have a hard time feeling sorry for you when you seem more the norm than not.</p>
<p>You should be able to earn up to about $6k per year without if affecting your aid…more so if some of it is work study.</p>
<p>but, that is a lot of working, so why not do a mix…half student loans and half working? </p>
<p>I’ve forgotten…do you have any student loans in your FA pkg? If you don’t have 6500 in loans in your pkg, then you can borrow up to that amount (unless up to COA).</p>