Maybe it’s just me, but the second half of this sentence really stuns me. Perhaps it’s the use of “they” for the Southern Jews? Oh, Southern Jews have been much like “everyone else”? How nice. . . 8-| It grates on me when people have to divide or label people and magnanimously declare that “they” are just as nice/smart/whatever as “the rest of us.”
"Exposure to and participation in festivities surrounding Christian holidays doesn’t harm people of other faiths; it brings them closer together. "
I don’t think you’ve ever really been exposed to observant Jews, EVD. They absolutely believe it harms them, and they want no part of it. Not Santa, not reindeer, and certainly not a tree. I’m not one of these, but it doesn’t take a lot of imagination for me to find them, because I live in an urban area and grew up in the northeast where it was just no big deal to be Jewish. With all due respect, you’re kind of coming from a part of the country where Jews are still apparently an interesting curiosity but heck, who wouldn’t like a nicely decorated tree at this time of year.
Even with my Reform / secular Jewish H, we fought over having a tree and other signs of Christmas in our home. And he doesn’t get worked up over strangers saying MC because it’s usually just meant in good will.
I don’t believe it “harms” me - but it is not my religion or my tradition. Why would I participate in Christmas festivities if I am not Christian? That makes no sense to me.
I will start by saying I haven’t read through the entire thread. But I almost certainly live near @Rockvillemom, I got my Master’s from UT (and grew up in east TN), lived in Williamsburg (where our S16 is a native), and married a nice Jewish woman from MD. Tennessee politicians have gotten more comservative since I interned with the state legislature.
@Pizzagirl. Every single one of your comments on this thread is spot on! We do not celebrate Christmas. We are Reform Jews.
Celebrating Christmas to us would be a rejection of our Jewish faith. We would never do it.
We spend Christmas the way many Jews do. Going to the movies and eating Chinese food.
“We spend Christmas the way many Jews do. Going to the movies and eating Chinese food.”
Amen!
PizzaGirl: “I think it’s pretty insulting both to committed Christians for whom Christmas has real meaning and to committed people of other faiths suggest that secular Christmas “should” be a unifying national experience.”
Not sure if you were referring to my post or not, but just in case, I’ll clarify my position. I don’t think Christmas, because it has ties to religion, “should” be the unifying experience. I agree Christmas is too controversial to serve in that role. Christians who want it to be a “national unifier” may be motivated for the benefit of proselytizing, among other reasons. I’m not in that camp. I’m not even Christian.
I’m bemoaning the fact that there isn’t a secular holiday on the scale of Christmas that could serve as that unifying experience. I’m nostalgic for what other nations/cultures have (lunar new year as an example). The fourth of July has a veteran-focus, and doesn’t draw family gatherings from afar in the same way Thanksgiving or Christmas does. Thanksgiving is close to having a similar communal unifying feel, but lacks gift-giving and the hype (all the marketing overlooks Thanksgiving and focuses on Christmas around the corner which irks a lot of us). Then, there’s also the political baggage that comes with Thanksgiving (the mistreatment of Native Americans).
Maybe Thanksgiving just needs better marketing. Up thread someone posted Abraham Lincoln’s influence – which was new info to me. I like that Thanksgiving is uniquely American.
I disagree. I think TG fills the role of national unifying holiday quite nicely. What does it matter that it lacks gift giving?
Would largely agree with this except that many Native-Americans wouldn’t feel inclined to join in the celebrations due to the fact they view that day as the one of mourning about the centuries of mistreatment and broken promises made by White European colonists, Americans, and the US government which was run mostly by and effectively on their behalf.
While not covered much by mass media, some friends who are sympathetic have posted articles from Native-American newsmedia and blogs asking the rest of us to take a moment to also remember how it’s not viewed as a celebratory holiday for many of them.
Everyone in my family is a secular Jew married to a secular Jew, and some households on my mother’s side have had Christmas trees and celebrated Christmas since the 1940s. Why? Because it’s fun, and we all have the day off. If we lived in Sweden, we’d probably celebrate St. Lucia’s Day, and if we lived in Greece, we’d have an Orthodox Easter feast. It’s just joining in the secular part of the celebrations along with our surrounding culture. We do not, thank goodness, live anyplace where there is social pressure to do so.
All that being said, of course employers should be inclusive, and that goes double for government employers. There always seem to be some folks who are behind the curve. If you’ve been alone on a pedestal for a while, and you came to think you belong there, joining everybody else on level ground can feel like some kind of attack. It only takes about three seconds of careful thought to realize that that’s childish at best, but as TN lawmakers have proved, not everyone is willing to put three seconds worth of thought into their actions.
There’s an interesting slide show on the sfgate.com this morning showing Hanukkah merchandise in various retail chain stores. Link is here: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Sometimes-you-find-hilariously-random-things-in-6676528.php
The captions make light of the mix-up of merchandise that blur lines between the Jewish holiday and Christmas. I don’t think the displays were intended to be mash-ups. The merchants probably didn’t know better. When they see this kind of merchandise display, do Jewish celebrants take offense? Likewise do the Christians think their holiday is being stolen?
These accidental mix-ups raises an interesting question. Will future generations of Americans celebrate Christmas, Hanukkah or Kwanzaa in a more integrated way – with the traditions evolving to more secular uses and ultimately crossing over to the other cultures. In 50 years, will christmas trees and tree ornaments be adopted universally by those who celebrate Hanukkah or Kwanzaa, for example. And will latkes be a more universally consumed winter holiday food…? I can’t help but think younger generations who grow up with exposure to such diversity of traditions would be more open to “sharing” or appropriating holiday traditions in a secular way. There is no offense intended by those who make the appropriation. There is no offense taken by those whose religion/culture originated it.
I love the Hanukkah tree topper (implying Hanukkah trees).
All I can say is that if they make star of david tree ornaments, presumably it’s because people are buying them. I guessing they are often used in mixed-faith homes. As for the seder plate, might that not be a perfectly appropriate Hanukkah gift for a new couple? While I’m usually the last person to say “what’s the big deal” on things that upset people, I think there’s a bit of stretching in that slide show.