<p>AA: I'm hoping someone else will comment on how arrogant you are on your position. Stop comparing UVa and Smeal. Are you saying 150 more grads a year makes a huge impact on how strong its alumni network is. Not at all. Outside of Tepper, most CMU grads will not make it into top management (outside tech industry). UVa on the other hand, has many thousands of kids outside McIntire who are quite capable of gettign into top management. It's engineers tend to seek out business jobs. Many arts&sciences students seek out business jobs. And they all are capable of doing extremely well in top management.</p>
<p>^ An unfounded generalization. I'm not comparing UVa and Smeal. I am showing you that SIZE of graduating class plays a factor. UVA is DOUBLE Tepper's size.</p>
<p>Just explain this to me and I'll rest. </p>
<p>UVA's mode (highest # of acceptances) to Ernst (16), Pricewater(16), Accenture(14), and KPMG(12). These are the 4 most numerous. </p>
<p>Tepper's mode is to IBM(5), JPMorgan(5), Lehman(4), and Merrill(4). These are the 4 most numerous.</p>
<p>Refer to page 14 of UVA and Page 1-2 of Tepper link.
No offense but I think most people prefer IBM/Morgan/Lehman/Merill to Ernst/Pricewater/Accenture/KPMG.</p>
<p>"Are you saying 150 more grads a year makes a huge impact on how strong its alumni network is"</p>
<p>Yes. You can't compare only numbers since UVa has LONG been established before Tepper (2004 officially changed its name and Tepper has not even been very good until recently). Tepper has only RECENTLY been recognized (and not even that in your case) as a top B-School and when its grads are consistently 2x less or even 4x less (when comparing vs Ross for example) there is bound to be some kind of effect.</p>
<p>Do you have AIM? I think we can come to an understanding within 10 minutes on AIM rather than hours or even days of miscommunications on here. PM me your SN if you are interested.</p>
<p>Fine if you want to say SIZE of graduating class plays a factor, I will say that Location of Jobs plays a factor in compensation. Many McIntire grads choose jobs in Northern Virginia because their family lives there and they want to spend time with them+save costs of not having to rent a place. Tepper grads are predominantly in the city where living expenses are much greater and therefore salaries must be adjusted.</p>
<p>If you calculate a median salary adjusted for location, I don't think there will be a difference in medians.</p>
<p>"UVa has LONG been established before Tepper (2004 officially changed its name and Tepper has not even been very good until recently). Tepper has only RECENTLY been recognized (and not even that in your case) as a top B-School and when its grads are consistently 2x less or even 4x less (when comparing vs Ross for example) there is bound to be some kind of effect."</p>
<p>Yes, and that is another reason why UVa is at least equal to Tepper. In business, alumni network means everything. Tepper, as you said, has recently been good, although its very much on the rise and will be a player in the future. When grads are less, there is bound to be some kind of effect. Yes, a bad effect. Ask anyone who is an executive. The name of your undergrad matters. Even if a Tepper education is better, when an alumni network is weaker its people are given less consideration for high-profile executive positions.</p>
<p>I won't argue that point yet since we're still not done with the first one :)</p>
<p>UVA's Most Likely Companies are Ernst/Pricewater/Accenture/KPMG. (Meaning they send the most grads to these 4).</p>
<p>Tepper's Most Likely Companies are IBM/Morgan/Lehman/Merill. (Meaning they send the most grads to these 4).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/Employers/Placement%20report/Reports/Placement_Report_2004.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/Employers/Placement%20report/Reports/Placement_Report_2004.pdf</a>
Page 14
<a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/ba.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/ba.pdf</a>
Page 1-2</p>
<p>Are you sure you don't want to discuss this quickly and end it over AIM? :)</p>
<p>lol... im sure you have taken introductory statistics at cmu. hopefully they taught you that with a small population size, you have to take things with a pinch of a salt. When we're talking between a difference between 3 grads for your Most Likely and Least Likely, you know your argument is a joke. Seriously, can't a Tepper student come up with better arguments to defend his PoV? I know a McIntire student could ;) Maybe, I'll just have to send my deposit to Northwestern instead.</p>
<p>AA: "I won't argue that point yet since we're still not done with the first one"
No, I want you to argue that. I don't think you can come up with an argument against it.</p>
<p>Joke for anyone whose actually reading this thread:</p>
<p>How many Tepper students does it take to change a lightbulb?
One. He holds the lightbulb and the whole world revolves around him.</p>
<p>It is not a joke since ANY of the 4 companies that Tepper sends the most kids to is more prestigious than ANY of the top 4 at UVA.</p>
<p>I know you don't have access to last year's data but it is quite the same. Lastly: 84 is not exactly a small sample size. The margins of error can still be deduced quite effectively (n > 30). </p>
<p>Now I know you do not know what you are saying. How about if we combine the numbers to make it easier? 18 out of 84 go to the Top 4 as I've stated for Tepper (or 22.5%).</p>
<p>Even discounting ALL TEPPER data you can't deny that most UVA students are likely to end up at Ernst/Pricewater/Accenture/KPMG.</p>
<p>Agreed?</p>
<p>HAHA. That is the most illogical post I've seen on CC. Seriously, is that how you compare schools?</p>
<p>If you compare CMU grads year to year, according to your system, it gets significantly better or worse every year.</p>
<p>So you are saying with a n of 194, you will discount UVA's data of sending the most kids to Ernst/Pricewater/Accenture/KPMG? Realize that these 4 combined are ALMOST 30% of UVA's selection. That is pretty dang huge for 4 companies out of the many listed on page 15-17.
<a href="http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/Employers/Placement%20report/Reports/Placement_Report_2004.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/Employers/Placement%20report/Reports/Placement_Report_2004.pdf</a></p>
<p>How can you discount Tepper's data when those 4 companies of IBM/Sachs/etc comprise of 22.5% (18/84) of the class? Note that the # of different companies is 38.</p>
<p>AA: It has nothing to do with n. It has to do with the variation in outcomes which is incredibly high that for n of 84, the top value is 4.</p>
<p>Hopefully you're only a freshman or I'd be terribly dissapointed in your lack of ability in statistics.</p>
<p>Wrong. N is relevant here but not N of students parsay. Moreso, the % of students at the 4 most numerous companies compared to the number of companies left. </p>
<p>UVA states 214 companies and when 30% of its students are going to Ernst/Pricewater/Accenture/KPMG(4 companies), you cannot deny that the statistic is relevant (especially with a graduating class of almost 200).</p>
<p>I hypothesize that the bottom half of McIntire students are less capable and selected McIntire at end of second year because they were insecure of their ability to land a business-related job. You probably know that UVa business students transfer to the b-school at the end of sophomor year. Well many who are quite satisfied with their major continue in A&S (some are already working on mandatory thesis papers). </p>
<p>So if you want to make it fair and see how successful business-oriented grads from UVa are, I suggest you include the economics/political science majors from Arts&Sciences as well.</p>
<p>Similarily, when 22.5% of CMU's graduating class is going to 4 companies (IBM/Goldman/Lehman/Merill), out of 38 companies, you cannot discount that evidence either.</p>
<p>Response to Post 52: "I hypothesize that the bottom half of McIntire students are less capable and selected McIntire at end of second year because they were insecure of their ability to land a business-related job."</p>
<p>Disagree. This is another unfounded generalization.</p>
<p>AA: Other things are debatable, but this I'm positive on. The best and brightest do not transfer into McIntire. UVa education promotes learning what you are interested in, not to major in something for the job. While there is a transfer, that doesn't automatically suggest that everyone is interested. In fact, most are not interested because McIntire has a 67% transfer acceptence rate. That means that about only 450 kids applied out of the several thousand kids in A&S.</p>
<p>Yes, but HSS kids can apply to Tepper with a 2.0+ GPA (AS LONG AS THERE IS SPACE). You can email <a href="mailto:cg28@andrew.cmu.edu">cg28@andrew.cmu.edu</a> about this fact and last year 2 kids got in with 3.0s. </p>
<p>I wouldn't say this is the "best and brighest" of CMU either. Some CIT kids even transfer into Tepper after doing badly in hard engineering courses. I won't lie in saying the caliber of students at CIT/SCS are on general a bit higher than the ones in Tepper. Quite a few SCS/CIT/Premeds go into business once they drop the "weeder" courses.</p>
<p>Either way this does not matter since we are comparing overall Tepper vs overall McIntire. We aren't doing Tepper vs Top 50% of McIntire. Hopefully this we can agree upon. </p>
<p>I mean hell, the best and brighest of any large college (UW Madison or Penn State) probably have great futures too and are "outliers".</p>
<p>Note: We resolved our differences over a friendly chat on AIM. Interesting convo i forgot to save.</p>
<p>Is this a CMU vs UVA thread or was it a CMU vs UNC thread?</p>
<p>Back on topic, please.</p>
<p>um yeah seriously i hate to break it to both of you, but this chat isnt about acceptedalready or gatorade. if you want to fight about stupid things, make your own topic. </p>
<p>in my opinion, having attended neither of these schools (CMU vs UNC) i would say that cmu business is probably more prestigious, but should you want to switch out of business and go into english/history etc., i'd go to unc.</p>