<p>Daughter is accepted at UNC-Chapel Hill (in-state resident). Waiting on decisions from Emory (reach) and Duke (reach). Over four years, with no financial aid probable, the cost at Duke or Emory will be $100,000+ more. How have some of you justified such a cost difference between a highly-ranked, respected public university like UNC and private schools like Emory and Duke? I went to Duke 30 years ago, but when I look at the three schools now, I'm wondering if the extra $100,000 for a Duke or Emory bachelor's degree has more to do with perceived "prestige" than real value. Except for having a few less full professors teaching undergraduate courses, and a student body without as many high "stats," UNC is starting to look like an incredible high-quality bargain. I can't believe I'm saying that (you know, the ole Duke-Carolina basketball rivalry stuff)! What were the reasons some of you went private? Be honest.</p>
<p>Whether a college was private or public really didn't matter to me or my sons. They simply looked for the colleges that had excellent programs in the areas they wished to major in. My older son ended up at a private school, and it actually ended up being the cheapest choice, after financial aid was factored in. My younger son may end up at a public or private college. It will just depends who admits him and how much aid they will give.</p>
<p>I don't think private or public is as important as the individual college itself and what it has to offer.</p>
<p>Years ago, when I was accepted at a top-ranked public law school and was also considering various private schools - I had a simple solution. I made a list of all of the things that were most important to me in a law school - that included factoring in a value for prestige -- and I also listed the cost of each program. I think I assigned some sort of numerical value for each of the other factors - though it is so long ago I can't remember the scoring system I came up with. Anyway -- I laid it out on a grid -- and once I saw that, there was no contest - in part because my law school also ranked high in the other areas. </p>
<p>In other words, the question isn't whether Duke is a better college than UNC-Chapel Hill - it is whether it is $100,000 better. We make this decision every day in our lives whenever we are considering purchases -- it simply is a matter of asking "what does Duke/Emory offer that UNC doesn't?" (restricting that question to things you/your daughter really care about) -- and asking how much extra that is worth to you.</p>
<p>Of course, given the fact that Duke & Emory are reaches, UNC offers one clear advantage: your daughter has been accepted. You may find that it is a moot point in the end -- but if you are starting to feel hesitant about paying more for a private education, now might be a good time to get your daughter thinking about these issues. </p>
<p>The fact that I graduated from college and law school with -0- debt is definitely important -- I simply had a lot more freedom in terms of career opportunities. (The best paying jobs are often not the most interesting or exciting).</p>
<p>Do not spend the extra money to go to Duke and certainly not to Emory. Duke does not offer $100,000 more in benefits than Carolina. I doubt if it offers any significant benefits at all over UNC; certainly not in the area of over all college experience. If you and your daughter value diversity in its broadest sense, Carolina is the place. Save the money for grad school.</p>
<p>One caveat: If Duke offers a specific program that your daughter really, really wants and Carolina doesn't have it , then it's the place for you. That's why we as Virginians chose USC over UVA (and UNC).</p>
<p>What else would you spend the money on? (That wasn't meant rhetorically - $100,000 to some folks is like $10,000 to others - for me, it would be non-question: my d. knew we didn't have anywhere close to $100,000 for college expenses, so we wouldn't even ask the question. Thank heavens we won the scholarship lotto. We went "private" 'cause it came out to be slightly less than half the cost of the public. And she didn't apply "public".)</p>
<p>The money is a factor, definitely. I suppose the spending question would be one of taking on some debt for several years vs. putting up more money into savings for retirement; or having more for discretionary spending. Maybe more for helping out with graduate or professional school for my daughter. I know I've enjoyed hanging my Duke diplomas all these years, but I had some grants that made the cost comparable or less than public universities 30 years ago; plus work study jobs, etc.</p>
<p>Well, perhaps one way to go about it is to figure out how much you are thinking you are willing to spend for her education and/or getting started in life - in total (knowing of course that things change), and then working out the choices together. She might decide she PREFERS UNC on that basis - it would be "better" for her. Or not.</p>
<p>My d. is going to graduate with O debt - and it's a good thing too, 'cause the path she wants to pursue doesn't pay anything to speak of. (And I want her to have a chance to "go for it', if she chooses.)</p>
<p>The thing is that UNCChapel Hill is such a top school. Many kids with great profiles aspire to go there, not just from NC but all over the place. My son would have loved to have gone there or UVA over a number of schools he picked, including Cornell. He did not have the grades to get in there as that was out of his league athletically and he had a very strong athletic hook that he needed to step up to the schools he did. Which would have been worthless at those two colleges. I would pick Yale over UConn, but Duke over UNC, would have to be a decision rendered by the student. If the money is not an issue. If finances were in question, UNC would definitely be the choice. But again, if the school is just not a match for the student, it may not be a good deal. That's what is important, though most kids, in my experience, are hardy enough to do fine either way.</p>
<p>I think UNCChapel Hill is a very good school, and I'm not sure Duke or Emory is better, but as posters above have pointed out, I don't know what field you're looking at, or what fit.</p>
<p>However, my son chose an expensive route (Penn) over full ride (UGA) or cheaper (GA Tech) -- we lived in GA then -- simply for the fit. (He also was accepted at UVA and Cornell, but their costs were significantly higher, because Penn meets "need" with grants, rather than loans. He was waitlisted at Duke, by the way. Only school he didn't get accepted by.) We did something similar to what calmom did. We made a spread sheet showing advantages and disadvantages of all, and expected amount of debt, and let S make the decision. (He had to agree to assume the debt once he was employed.) That spread-sheet has been useful, too, to pull out again at those times we are second guessing ourselves. </p>
<p>I have to be honest and say that the jury is still out on whether I think that was the best route. He would say absolutely it was! He has loved all four years there, finally feeling "at home" in school. He graduates in May, and is currently job-hunting. </p>
<p>Some advantages include the great experience he's had, the like-minded friends he's found, and the "prestige" factor.</p>
<p>Some disadvantages are the debt, of course. And the "lower" GPA due to attending school in a crowd of brilliant kids. He has about a 3.3, which is about average or slightly above average at Penn. Ironically, many grad schools and jobs won't even look at him without a 3.5. It seems a bit skewed to me.</p>
<p>But that's my vent, not really answering your question. What I mean to say is that every situation is so unique, and there are so many unknowns -- you really have to go with your gut!</p>
<p>EmoryUNCDuke,</p>
<p>After growing up in a family with modest means, I graduated decades ago from what was then the most expensive school in the country (thanks to a lot of financial aid), then went on to a flagship state school for my law degree. My children should be finishing with college about the time I'm eligible for social security (if Bush doesn't have his way). I've done well enough financially that my kids will probably not be eligible for need-based aid, but not well enough to keep the price tag for private schools from eating up a substantial portion of my net worth. In short, I identify strongly with your dilemma.</p>
<p>I'm rooting for the flagship university at this point (which also happens to be the major rival of my undergraduate alma mater). My wife went to the flagship school as an undergrad; her college friends seem to have enjoyed just as much success as my college friends since graduation.</p>
<p>My father, who left school at 17, lobbied hard for my home state university; I argued at the time that with financial aid, there really wasn't much of a difference in price. That turned out to be true for me, under my circumstances. For those whose family contribution is less than the full cost of the state school, the private school may cost no more; for the out-of-sight rich, the cost differential doesn't matter. The situation of those of us in between brings to mind a New Yorker cartoon from long ago, showing the gates to "If-You-Have-To-Ask-you-Can't-Afford-It University." </p>
<p>I'm not looking forward to the "how come you got to go there and I can't" argument. If they're as persistent with their father as I was with mine, I may be fated for a less comfortable retirement than the one I'm rooting for. Of course, at the age I'll be when my kids are ready for college, the notion that they're spending their inheritance might prove to be compelling enough to them to tip the scales in favor of the state school.</p>
<p>Thanks for these replies...keep them coming. It's great to read what everyone is thinking about all this!</p>
<p>My son was accepted to both UVA (Echols) and UNC as an out-of-state student last year. Unfortunately, he did not qualify for financial aid anywhere. It was his decision to go to Duke. Contrary to many on this board, his opinion was that Duke was the best fit for him, and that his choice is definitely not an overrated school, but rather an excellent opportunity. He would have been happy to attend any of those schools. However, as an out-of-state student, in his opinion (and ours), in this case, the private school option really is worth the extra bang for the buck, because of the high out- of-state tuition at those schools. Our own in state university was not an option for him due to its relatively weak academics. Academic strength, campus size, campus diversity, available academic and extracurricular programs that interested him, location, exceptional graduate school and employment placement, and a comfortable social atmosphere were all part of his decision making process. (come to think of it, I don't remember basketball being a factor in his decision making process at all......)</p>
<p>We picked private over public - A) Because we didn't have your choice! If we lived in North Carolina or Virginia, it would have been a much more difficult decision. A smaller school was a better fit for our daughter, and we followed Mini's reasoning, we had a target for what would get her started in life, and she is sucking down a big portion of that total! She's basically on her own for grad school, but her in-state prospects (if she opts for professional school) are much better. In contrast, I predict my son will cost us much less for undergraduate, but he is also more likely to end up in a low paying profession, and need support for longer.</p>
<p>I agree that if we lived in Virginia or NC, the decision would be much tougher!</p>
<p>I just want to reinforce previous comments ... all 3 schools are excellent schools so there is no bad choice! I would also recommend writing down the pros and cons (other than money) of each school and see if Duke come out on top. If it does it is a family decision of if the gap over #2 is worth $100,000 ... and as previously mentioned the ability to pay an additional $100,000 varies greatly depending on each family. Fortunately, starting with a terrific school like UNC as the starting point your daughter will have a great opportunity whatever you all decide!</p>
<p>I recently posted about my (soon to be) similar choice - $130K+ for a prestigious selective school versus free or virtually free in honors program at the state U. </p>
<p>These trade-off inner wrestling matches that many of us have to go, endless spreadsheets, retirement worksheets, cost-benefit-analysis speculations, are ridiculous, even though the consequences in sacrifice and/or old-age security are sobering. </p>
<p>It reminds me of Dr. Suess "Would you eat green eggs and ham? Would you eat them on a box? Would you eat them in your socks?" where you substitue "Would you pay BIG BUCKS for Harvard?" "Would you pay BIG BUCKS for MIT?" "Would you pay BIG BUCKS for Swarthmore?"</p>
<p>....and the response "I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam I Am!" (Because I want to retire!) But as far as the state U is concerned, there is a tendency to cop the Groucho Marx attitude "I would never join a country club that would have me as a member!" There should be a prestige-o-meter-value-proposition calculator on the College Board's web site. </p>
<p>Feel the Middle Class Squeeze tightening its tendrils, guys? As for our sainted President, I told my parents "If he keeps ONE campaign promise, let it be the one 'Social Security benefits will not change for everyone over 50.'" Now he's sayinbg it's 55, already, and I ain't there yet, so $@!#T$#@!! George, I'm gonna visit you on my lunch hour to give you a piece of my mind - several pieces (4 blocks walk).</p>
<p>I think the choice between unc/emory/duke is like that of ucla and usc. Any of these schools will give you a great education, are well known, and the only difference is the price tag. And frankly if finances are a problem I would definetly stick to UNC. Emory nor Duke have an advantage over the UNC.</p>
<p>The only way I'd see it's worth going to a school and spending 100,000 is if you know this school is going to hook you up after you graduate meaning you'll end up with a well paying career etc or if the school offers a one of a kind program you can't find anywhere else.</p>
<p>Yulsie - the thing is that UNC isn't like most other average "state U"'s. It's one of the top public schools in the nation, and a degree from UNC with a good GPA and other stats will get you in to just about any grad school you want. Duke vs Carolina ultimately comes down to environment - Carolina has more large classes taught by TA's than Duke, however once you get past your sophomore year, and in to the real "meat" of your major, this difference is negligible. It's not quite the same as deciding between, say, University of Nevada Honors program and Harvard. Carolina and Duke are very close together physically, and offer very similar opportunities.</p>
<p>Just a note, though - UNC doesn't have an Honors "College" like many other public colleges. The Honors program is primarily a collection of classes taught in the first two years that guarantee smaller class sizes, and usually taught by the best professors available (of course there are other requirements for graduating with "Honors", specific to the degree); people not in the honors program can enroll in them, although Honors students are given preference. The student body of UNC isn't so weak that it needs a "college within a college" to distinguish it's better members, although having seen some of the people who got into Carolina from my school, you may encounter some less than intelligent people the first year or two. These people are generally weeded out fairly quickly in terms of GPA, as there is no doubt that Carolina grades tougher than Duke (as is the case when you compare most public-private colleges).</p>
<p>If I am not mistaken, Carolina and Duke have a reciprocal agreement that allows students to take a class at the other institution if it is not offered by the resident school. There are also busses that run between the two schools because of the Robertson Scholars program.</p>
<p>Interestingly, my daughter doesn't seem too concerned when I point out that at Carolina, "you might have big lecture classes with TA's for a lot of your classes." For me, one of the primary advantages of going to a Duke or Emory or a smaller liberal arts college would be the interaction with faculty on a more personal level. She pointed out that in her AP US History course here at high school, she had a great experience, learned a lot, but hardly ever talked to or expected much "hands-on" help from her teacher (not that she didn't need it at times!). Interestingly, if you read some of the negative student reviews of UNC at <a href="http://www.studentsreview.com%5B/url%5D">www.studentsreview.com</a>, being a "number in a crowd" is one of the biggest gripes of those who wrote. Over in the Emory and Duke sections, they glow about the faculty,etc. But even if acceptances to Duke and Emory come, we are going to be evaluating this very carefully. Money that would be spent on tuition at those schools might really be better spent on her grad or professional school, and retirement!</p>