<p>collegehelp said: “I think SAT is the best indicator of quality.”</p>
<p>Given the SATs strong and abiding link to SES, shouldn’t that be “indicator of quality people” (wicked grin here)?</p>
<p><a href=“Publications | Center for Studies in Higher Education”>Publications | Center for Studies in Higher Education;
<p>…gives credence to the old adage …“the best predictor of future behavior, is past behavior” …</p>
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</p>
<p>Which is why acceptance rate is such a pointless statistic for ranking colleges. UCLA gets a little over 60,000 applications a year, in part because there are so many Californians, and in part because it’s so easy to apply to all the UCs with a single application. Which also means it’s easy for a lot of people to apply who are real longshots but may be competitive for lower-ranked and less selective UCs, but figure, “Heck, all I have to do is check the box for UCLA to give it a shot, so why not?”</p>
<p>Michigan used to get about 30,000 applications a year until it switched to the Common App last year and that number shot up to 40,000. The figures you’re looking at for its admit rate are from the pre-Common App era. It will be significantly lower in the next edition of that book But even with the increased applications, it’s likely the quality of Michigan’s applicant pool has probably remained slightly higher than UCLA’s. Most of the increase will be in OOS applicants whose stats tend to skew a little higher than the in-state applicant pool at Michigan. So you should see both a lower admit rate and slightly higher stats for Michigan. I know their 75th percentile ACT score has gone up from 31 to 32, which is the equivalent of a 40-point jump in SAT CR+M.</p>
<p>The publics tend to use GPA for admitance to give some advantage to instate students who’ve attended lesser-quality high schools. If state schools heavily used test scores, too many kids from the very best high schools would be admitted, shutting out those who attended “lesser” schools…which are often the lower-income students.</p>
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</p>
<p>This is exactly how US News does it. It ranks schools by, as you say, “a fictional SAT score that doesn’t statistically represent anything.”</p>
<p>Even apart from that, I’d take these scores with a huge grain of salt. Some schools superscore, others don’t. Also, some of these schools are test-optional or test-flexible, which is going to skew their reported SAT scores higher because the applicants who have an incentive to submit SAT scores will be, naturally, those with high SAT scores. See, e.g., Bowdoin (test-optional; 70% submit SAT scores in a SAT-dominant region where most colleges get SAT scores from 85-90% of applicants); Colby (test-flexible; 64% submit SAT scores, same region as Bowdoin). Also, it’s rumored some schools in the Northeast encourage their recruited athletes to submit ACT scores instead of SAT so as not to mess with the schools’ reported SAT medians; no one pays much attention to ACT medians at SAT-dominant schools. </p>
<p>For all these reasons, you’re not really comparing apples-to-apples.</p>
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</p>
<p>!!! I did not know that. The more I learn, the more of an absolute buffoon Mr. Morse appears to be. And yet these rankings are viewed with grave reverence by the rank-and-file.</p>
<p>OP, any particular reason you chose to rank by 75th percentile rather than by 25th? People often make the argument on CC that it matters more where the bottom of the class is, because that’s what determines how much and how fast things can be taught.</p>
<p>Of course then Harvard wouldn’t come out on top, which would mean that in the minds of many it couldn’t be a true ranking . . . . </p>
<p>Ranked by 25th percentile</p>
<p>1470 1580 California Institute of Technology 93
1410 1560 Harvey Mudd College 93
1410 1560 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 93
1400 1580 Yale University 91
1400 1580 Princeton University 91
1400 1560 University of Chicago 73
1390 1590 Harvard University 91
1390 1540 Washington University in St Louis 63
1380 1560 Pomona College 80
1370 1550 Columbia University in the City of New York 96
1360 1550 Stanford University 89
1360 1530 Vanderbilt University 46
1360 1530 Northwestern University 75
1350 1550 Dartmouth College 75
1350 1530 University of Pennsylvania 87
1350 1500 Tufts University 71
1340 1540 Amherst College 69
1340 1540 Rice University 87
1340 1530 Swarthmore College 87
1340 1530 Duke University 87
1330 1530 Brown University 85
1320 1510 University of Notre Dame 49
1310 1530 Williams College 96
1310 1500 Bowdoin College 70
1310 1460 Reed College 88
1310 1460 Vassar College 74
1310 1460 Washington and Lee University 82
1300 1500 Georgetown University 94
1300 1500 Carleton College 68
1300 1500 Cornell University 90
1300 1500 Carnegie Mellon University 94
1300 1490 Haverford College 88
1300 1480 Claremont McKenna College 77
1300 1480 Emory University 84
1300 1470 Hamilton College 56</p>
<p>I only went down to 1300, to capture all the Ivies . . . since they seem to be the object of special attention on CC.</p>
<p>People often make the argument on CC that it matters more where the bottom of the class is, because that’s what determines how much and how fast things can be taught.</p>
<p>that is a nonsense argument, especially at larger schools that offer 100s of majors. Those in the lower quartile are rarely going to be found in the same majors as the top quartile. The lower quartile are filled with athletes and special admits whose majors often barely register above basket-weaving. </p>
<p>The idea that the Complex Calculus class or Thermodynamics class is being taught at a “slower pace” because there are kids in easier majors on the other side of campus with lowish scores is just ridiculous.</p>
<p>Unless your name is Greg McElroy. :)</p>
<p>The fact that there are schools missing that should be here makes the list rather less useful, IMHO. Is there a link for this data?</p>
<p>Here is a ranking by 75th percentile ACT for those schools with at least 30% of the incoming class reporting SAT.</p>
<p>ACT comp 25th, ACT comp 75th, school name, percent reporting ACT</p>
<p>33 35 Harvey Mudd College 40
34 35 California Institute of Technology 38
32 35 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 32
31 35 Princeton University 31
30 34 Vanderbilt University 65
32 34 Washington University in St Louis 63
31 34 University of Notre Dame 51
30 34 University of Chicago 49
30 34 Rice University 46
30 34 Duke University 44
31 34 Pomona College 43
30 34 University of Pennsylvania 38
31 34 Stanford University 37
30 34 Amherst College 35
31 34 Harvard University 32
30 34 Yale University 32
30 34 Williams College 30
31 33 Northwestern University 62
29 33 Carleton College 58
29 33 University of Southern California 42
29 33 Johns Hopkins University 40
30 33 Middlebury College 39
30 33 Reed College 39
29 33 Swarthmore College 37
29 33 Brown University 37
29 33 Cornell University 36
29 33 Vassar College 36
30 33 Bowdoin College 33
29 33 Carnegie Mellon University 30
27 32 Hendrix College 80
26 32 University of Tulsa 67
26 32 Wheaton College 65
28 32 Case Western Reserve University 62
28 32 Macalester College 57
28 32 Davidson College 50
28 32 Colorado College 50
29 32 Washington and Lee University 49
29 32 Tulane University of Louisiana 49
29 32 United States Air Force Academy 49
28 32 Grinnell College 45
28 32 Kenyon College 45
28 32 Scripps College 44
28 32 Wellesley College 42
28 32 Oberlin College 42
29 32 University of Rochester 38
26 32 University of California-Berkeley 37
28 32 College of William and Mary 37
28 32 University of Miami 37
28 32 Barnard College 35
29 32 Colgate University 32
28 32 University of Virginia-Main Campus 30
26 31 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 99
26 31 Illinois Wesleyan University 96
26 31 Colorado School of Mines 91
26 31 St. Olaf College 85
27 31 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 80
26 31 Centre College 71
25 31 Illinois Institute of Technology 69
27 31 New College of Florida 57
25 31 The University of Texas at Austin 50
27 31 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus 49
24 31 University of California-Los Angeles 44
27 31 University of Richmond 42
27 31 Whitman College 40
27 31 Bucknell University 40
28 31 Colby College 39
26 31 American University 38
28 31 Villanova University 37
27 31 Trinity University 34
26 31 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 33
28 31 Northeastern University 31
27 31 Occidental College 31
27 31 Brandeis University 30
25 30 Truman State University 96
24 30 Drake University 96
26 30 Brigham Young University 94
25 30 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 93
26 30 University of Wisconsin-Madison 89
24 30 Saint Louis University-Main Campus 86
26 30 Ohio State University-Main Campus 84
24 30 Auburn University 80
26 30 Kalamazoo College 77
25 30 United States Military Academy 74
26 30 Rhodes College 73
25 30 University of Denver 73
24 30 Cornell College 72
24 30 Beloit College 68
25 30 Furman University 63
25 30 Butler University 62
25 30 Southern Methodist University 57
25 30 United States Coast Guard Academy 55
24 30 Southwestern University 55
26 30 Sewanee-The University of the South 54
24 30 University of Dallas 51
25 30 The University of Texas at Dallas 50
26 30 University of Puget Sound 50
25 30 Grove City College 46
23 30 New Saint Andrews College 45
26 30 Santa Clara University 44
24 30 University of California-San Diego 40
27 30 Denison University 39
27 30 Willamette University 38
27 30 SUNY at Geneseo 37
26 30 Lafayette College 36
26 30 Boston University 36
26 30 Bryn Mawr College 35
25 30 University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus 35
25 30 Emerson College 34
26 30 Skidmore College 33
26 30 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 31
26 30 Fordham University 31
24 30 Texas A & M University 31
27 30 SUNY at Binghamton 30
24 29 Transylvania University 95
24 29 The University of Tennessee 95
23 29 Michigan Technological University 94
22 29 Union University 94
24 29 Milwaukee School of Engineering 94
24 29 Luther College 93
24 29 Marquette University 92
24 29 Ohio Northern University 92
24 29 Hope College 92
25 29 Loyola University Chicago 92
22 29 University of Alabama in Huntsville 92
24 29 Kettering University 90
24 29 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology 87
24 29 Creighton University 87
23 29 University of Oklahoma Norman Campus 86
24 29 Millsaps College 86
24 29 Miami University-Oxford 84
23 29 Samford University 84
24 29 Birmingham Southern College 83
23 29 Calvin College 82
23 29 Belmont University 78
23 29 Ohio Wesleyan University 68
24 29 Loyola University New Orleans 66
24 29 DePauw University 64
24 29 The College of Wooster 60
24 29 California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo 60
25 29 University of Georgia 54
24 29 Indiana University-Bloomington 53
24 29 University of South Carolina-Columbia 52
24 29 Rollins College 51
24 29 Gonzaga University 51
23 29 Westmont College 50
23 29 Purdue University-Main Campus 49
23 29 Texas Christian University 49
25 29 Loyola Marymount University 48
25 29 Chapman University 48
23 29 University of California-Santa Barbara 47
25 29 University of San Diego 47
23 29 Berry College 46
23 29 Florida Institute of Technology 46
24 29 Baylor University 45
24 29 Earlham College 44
24 29 Allegheny College 43
23 29 University of California-Davis 42
24 29 Seattle University 39
23 29 Clarkson University 39
23 29 Whitworth University 38
23 29 Mercer University 32
23 28 University of Missouri-Columbia 97
23 28 William Jewell College 97
23 28 University of St Thomas 96
22 28 University of Nebraska-Lincoln 95
23 28 Coe College 94
23 28 University of Minnesota-Morris 94
25 28 Albion College 94
23 28 University of Arkansas 92
22 28 Lipscomb University 90
21 28 University of Louisville 89
23 28 Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College 87
22 28 Oklahoma City University 84
22 28 Xavier University 81
23 28 University of Colorado Boulder 74
24 28 Cedarville University 73
23 28 Wofford College 67
23 28 Franciscan University of Steubenville 66
23 28 University of Evansville 64
22 28 Wittenberg University 63
22 28 Covenant College 61
23 28 Austin College 58
22 28 Wabash College 55
24 28 Florida State University 53
23 28 Point Loma Nazarene University 50
22 28 Oglethorpe University 49
22 28 Hanover College 48
24 28 University of Central Florida 47
22 28 Abilene Christian University 45
21 28 Goshen College 43
22 28 Seattle Pacific University 42
23 28 University of California-Irvine 41
22 28 University of California-Santa Cruz 41
22 28 University of the Pacific 40
23 28 University at Buffalo 37
23 28 Ithaca College 36
23 28 Syracuse University 36
23 28 Providence College 34
22 27 Alma College 98
22 27 Colorado State University 91
22 27 DePaul University 88
22 27 University of Cincinnati-Main Campus 87
24 27 University of Dayton 84
22 27 Westminster College 76
21 27 Montana State University 68
22 27 University of South Florida-Main Campus 46
22 27 California Lutheran University 46
22 27 Virginia Military Institute 44
23 27 College of Charleston 43
22 27 University of San Francisco 43
23 27 SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry 41
23 27 Marist College 34
22 27 James Madison University 31
23 27 Fairfield University 31
22 27 Saint Edward’s University 31
23 27 Washington College 30
20 26 Northland College 89
21 26 Berea College 78
22 26 Georgia College & State University 51
22 26 University of Redlands 50
21 26 North Georgia College & State University 45
22 26 Duquesne University 41
22 26 Siena College 39
21 25 Flagler College 52
22 25 University of North Florida 50
21 25 Georgia Southern University 44
22 25 SUNY College at Oneonta 34
21 25 SUNY College at Oswego 33
18 24 Blackburn College 98
19 24 Rockford College 94
23 24 Texas A & M University-Texarkana 82
21 24 Texas A & M University at Galveston 46</p>
<p>@sylvan8798
Here is the link.
[IPEDS</a> Data Center](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/InstitutionByName.aspx]IPEDS”>http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/InstitutionByName.aspx)</p>
<p>The website enables users to download files from a vast database that goes back several years. However, it is not easy to use. I selected institutions by variable (certain Carnegie categories with SAT 25th over 500). I downloaded a comma-delimited file which I then imported into Excel and sorted by SAT 75th. I didn’t have to do any typing.</p>
<p>collegehelp,
This is interesting but is it possible for you to re-run the ACT data so those schools with the same 75th percentile are then ranked by higher 25th percentile, as you did for SAT in the OP? I think (for example) Vanderbilt’s 30-34 is not nearly as impressive as WUSTL’s 32-34, but you place Vanderbilt above WUSTL. Vandy would actually be 5 places down if you made 25th percentile a secondary ranking criterion, which is how the OP was listed.</p>
<p>Here is the ACT list again sorted first by ACT 75th and then by ACT 25th. There was no good reason for sorting on 75th instead of 25th. I almost sorted on 25th but changed my mind at last second.</p>
<p>34 35 California Institute of Technology 38
33 35 Harvey Mudd College 40
32 35 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 32
31 35 Princeton University 31
32 34 Washington University in St Louis 63
31 34 University of Notre Dame 51
31 34 Pomona College 43
31 34 Stanford University 37
31 34 Harvard University 32
30 34 Vanderbilt University 65
30 34 University of Chicago 49
30 34 Rice University 46
30 34 Duke University 44
30 34 University of Pennsylvania 38
30 34 Amherst College 35
30 34 Yale University 32
30 34 Williams College 30
31 33 Northwestern University 62
30 33 Middlebury College 39
30 33 Reed College 39
30 33 Bowdoin College 33
29 33 Carleton College 58
29 33 University of Southern California 42
29 33 Johns Hopkins University 40
29 33 Swarthmore College 37
29 33 Brown University 37
29 33 Cornell University 36
29 33 Vassar College 36
29 33 Carnegie Mellon University 30
29 32 Washington and Lee University 49
29 32 Tulane University of Louisiana 49
29 32 United States Air Force Academy 49
29 32 University of Rochester 38
29 32 Colgate University 32
28 32 Case Western Reserve University 62
28 32 Macalester College 57
28 32 Davidson College 50
28 32 Colorado College 50
28 32 Grinnell College 45
28 32 Kenyon College 45
28 32 Scripps College 44
28 32 Wellesley College 42
28 32 Oberlin College 42
28 32 College of William and Mary 37
28 32 University of Miami 37
28 32 Barnard College 35
28 32 University of Virginia-Main Campus 30
27 32 Hendrix College 80
26 32 University of Tulsa 67
26 32 Wheaton College 65
26 32 University of California-Berkeley 37
28 31 Colby College 39
28 31 Villanova University 37
28 31 Northeastern University 31
27 31 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 80
27 31 New College of Florida 57
27 31 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus 49
27 31 University of Richmond 42
27 31 Whitman College 40
27 31 Bucknell University 40
27 31 Trinity University 34
27 31 Occidental College 31
27 31 Brandeis University 30
26 31 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 99
26 31 Illinois Wesleyan University 96
26 31 Colorado School of Mines 91
26 31 St. Olaf College 85
26 31 Centre College 71
26 31 American University 38
26 31 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 33
25 31 Illinois Institute of Technology 69
25 31 The University of Texas at Austin 50
24 31 University of California-Los Angeles 44
27 30 Denison University 39
27 30 Willamette University 38
27 30 SUNY at Geneseo 37
27 30 SUNY at Binghamton 30
26 30 Brigham Young University 94
26 30 University of Wisconsin-Madison 89
26 30 Ohio State University-Main Campus 84
26 30 Kalamazoo College 77
26 30 Rhodes College 73
26 30 Sewanee-The University of the South 54
26 30 University of Puget Sound 50
26 30 Santa Clara University 44
26 30 Lafayette College 36
26 30 Boston University 36
26 30 Bryn Mawr College 35
26 30 Skidmore College 33
26 30 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 31
26 30 Fordham University 31
25 30 Truman State University 96
25 30 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 93
25 30 United States Military Academy 74
25 30 University of Denver 73
25 30 Furman University 63
25 30 Butler University 62
25 30 Southern Methodist University 57
25 30 United States Coast Guard Academy 55
25 30 The University of Texas at Dallas 50
25 30 Grove City College 46
25 30 University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus 35
25 30 Emerson College 34
24 30 Drake University 96
24 30 Saint Louis University-Main Campus 86
24 30 Auburn University 80
24 30 Cornell College 72
24 30 Beloit College 68
24 30 Southwestern University 55
24 30 University of Dallas 51
24 30 University of California-San Diego 40
24 30 Texas A & M University 31
23 30 New Saint Andrews College 45
25 29 Loyola University Chicago 92
25 29 University of Georgia 54
25 29 Loyola Marymount University 48
25 29 Chapman University 48
25 29 University of San Diego 47
24 29 Transylvania University 95
24 29 The University of Tennessee 95
24 29 Milwaukee School of Engineering 94
24 29 Luther College 93
24 29 Marquette University 92
24 29 Ohio Northern University 92
24 29 Hope College 92
24 29 Kettering University 90
24 29 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology 87
24 29 Creighton University 87
24 29 Millsaps College 86
24 29 Miami University-Oxford 84
24 29 Birmingham Southern College 83
24 29 Loyola University New Orleans 66
24 29 DePauw University 64
24 29 The College of Wooster 60
24 29 California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo 60
24 29 Indiana University-Bloomington 53
24 29 University of South Carolina-Columbia 52
24 29 Rollins College 51
24 29 Gonzaga University 51
24 29 Baylor University 45
24 29 Earlham College 44
24 29 Allegheny College 43
24 29 Seattle University 39
23 29 Michigan Technological University 94
23 29 University of Oklahoma Norman Campus 86
23 29 Samford University 84
23 29 Calvin College 82
23 29 Belmont University 78
23 29 Ohio Wesleyan University 68
23 29 Westmont College 50
23 29 Purdue University-Main Campus 49
23 29 Texas Christian University 49
23 29 University of California-Santa Barbara 47
23 29 Berry College 46
23 29 Florida Institute of Technology 46
23 29 University of California-Davis 42
23 29 Clarkson University 39
23 29 Whitworth University 38
23 29 Mercer University 32
22 29 Union University 94
22 29 University of Alabama in Huntsville 92
25 28 Albion College 94
24 28 Cedarville University 73
24 28 Florida State University 53
24 28 University of Central Florida 47
23 28 University of Missouri-Columbia 97
23 28 William Jewell College 97
23 28 University of St Thomas 96
23 28 Coe College 94
23 28 University of Minnesota-Morris 94
23 28 University of Arkansas 92
23 28 Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College 87
23 28 University of Colorado Boulder 74
23 28 Wofford College 67
23 28 Franciscan University of Steubenville 66
23 28 University of Evansville 64
23 28 Austin College 58
23 28 Point Loma Nazarene University 50
23 28 University of California-Irvine 41
23 28 University at Buffalo 37
23 28 Ithaca College 36
23 28 Syracuse University 36
23 28 Providence College 34
22 28 University of Nebraska-Lincoln 95
22 28 Lipscomb University 90
22 28 Oklahoma City University 84
22 28 Xavier University 81
22 28 Wittenberg University 63
22 28 Covenant College 61
22 28 Wabash College 55
22 28 Oglethorpe University 49
22 28 Hanover College 48
22 28 Abilene Christian University 45
22 28 Seattle Pacific University 42
22 28 University of California-Santa Cruz 41
22 28 University of the Pacific 40
21 28 University of Louisville 89
21 28 Goshen College 43
24 27 University of Dayton 84
23 27 College of Charleston 43
23 27 SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry 41
23 27 Marist College 34
23 27 Fairfield University 31
23 27 Washington College 30
22 27 Alma College 98
22 27 Colorado State University 91
22 27 DePaul University 88
22 27 University of Cincinnati-Main Campus 87
22 27 Westminster College 76
22 27 University of South Florida-Main Campus 46
22 27 California Lutheran University 46
22 27 Virginia Military Institute 44
22 27 University of San Francisco 43
22 27 James Madison University 31
22 27 Saint Edward’s University 31
21 27 Montana State University 68
22 26 Georgia College & State University 51
22 26 University of Redlands 50
22 26 Duquesne University 41
22 26 Siena College 39
21 26 Berea College 78
21 26 North Georgia College & State University 45
20 26 Northland College 89
22 25 University of North Florida 50
22 25 SUNY College at Oneonta 34
21 25 Flagler College 52
21 25 Georgia Southern University 44
21 25 SUNY College at Oswego 33
23 24 Texas A & M University-Texarkana 82
21 24 Texas A & M University at Galveston 46
19 24 Rockford College 94
18 24 Blackburn College 98</p>
<p>All of the lists are gibberish, missing many colleges that should be listed.</p>
<p>correlations with graduation rate:</p>
<p>.67 SAT 75th
.67 ACT 75th
.68 SAT 25th
.72 ACT 25th
-.0002 admit rate</p>
<p>What happened to Michigan State University (MSU)? @_@"</p>
<p>Michigan State didn’t make the cut with a SAT critical reading 25th percentile of only 440. I am also surprised.</p>
<p>University of Alabama and South Florida are in the list, I think.
Holy Cross did not report SAT or ACT scores.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I see. But, I know for certain that MSU should have made the cut for ACT… but it’s not listed?? >.<"</p>
<p>There are many schools missing from your list that should be in it.</p>
<p>Here are some schools that should have been in your initial SAT list, but aren’t:</p>
<p>1380 Babson
1240 Mississippi State
1300 South Dakota School of Mines
1230 North Dakota State
1410 Rose-Hulman
1370 Alabama-Birmingham
1390 Missouri US&T
1240 Alabama
1210 Arizona State
1220 Arizona
1340 Iowa
1330 Iowa State</p>