Obviously your definition of scholastic merit is not that of USNA. Go back to the definition of 3Qed. The 3Qs are physically, medically, and scholastically. Her ‘scholastic merit’ is everything but her medical qualification. Much greater scope than her academic achievements. It is her whole person score which even includes how well she did on the CFA. A medicore academic package combined with 5000 RABs for being an exceptional athlete or 3000 RABs for being displaced three times during her high school career suddenly places one in the LOA scholastically gifted range. A BGO should know this.</p>
Lippy, you have hit on the exact reason for this entire controversy. Naval leadership has realized that further into the 21st century that there will not be enough qualified white males to ‘man’ our ships, submarines, and aircraft squadrons with the quality of personnel needed to be successful. Additionally, most of those versed in leadership will tell you that any organization that reflects to the top the racial, ethnic, and gender makeup of the bottom will perform better. Your point is well-taken. Every sailor in the Navy today is given a rah-rah speech at boot camp that if he works hard he can someday be an Admiral. The Navy’s STA21 (seaman-to-admiral) advancement program actually recognizes it. What does it do to the young black or Latino’s drive when he hits the fleet and everyone in any position of rank is a white male? I assume there are those who had rather see our Navy fail than face the challenges of the future. If you were active duty during the racial unrest periods of the 70s, I doubt if you would be questioning the wisdom of this program at all.</p>
And you still have not enlightened us as to how these non-revenue sports would be funded at a tax payers institution if it were not for football. I suppose a brothel would work if we were able to determine that the brothel staff made good officers once they graduated and hit the fleet.</p>
Quite a charge. Are they no longer requiring the Calculus, science, and engineering core courses? Are instructors being pressured to pass everyone and the Academy is so restrictive on faculty speaking their mind in public that they feel their jobs are at stake if they say anything? Or I suppose they could increase study time, opportunities for extra instruction, which they are actually doing, by the way. However, I suppose anyone shilling for Fleming would not recognize this since anyone who cannot fathom his lecture on the first pass is a problem of Admissions, not him.</p>
Just remember that a complaining mid is a happy mid. It is only when they become quiet, morose, and sullen that you really need to start listening to what they say. Many parents, sponsorers, etc have not yet come to realize this.</p>
Luigi, nice to see you keeping up with the thread you started. Perhaps you could become even more involved. Since in your initial post you seem to think arrogance is the only reason to participate in Div I football, maybe you can help '84 come up with a way to pay for all the other 30 odd teams to compete if it were no longer available. And no, WP’s voodoo bookkeeping won’t work.</p>
<p>
Like I said before, there are those on these anonymous forums with absolutely no stake in the game with absolutely no experience to back their opinions, who had rather see our Navy fail than be proactive in meeting the demands of the 21st century. </p>
<p>Just a little hint WP. you think women are in the military today because of ‘PC silliness’? How much more would it cost us taxpayers today to attract qualified males had someone not madet he unpopular decision back in the '80s to incorporate them fully into our ranks? Because of women in the Navy, your son will not have to jump into an aircraft maintained by subpar performers. With Admirals Mullen’s and Roughead’s incentives, maybe your grand daughter won’t either.</p>
<p>WP, anyone involved in today’s Navy is either going to have to lead, follow, or get out of the way. I would suspect that for Fleming and some others, they will simply have to get out of the way.</p>
<p>I respect the effort and the expertise that went into this directive. Perhaps, if you want to rebut it, something more constructive than “PC silliness” might be in order. However, I suspect that you are unable to be more constructive.</p>
<p>Mongo? I get USNA69, I even understand mombee . . . did we all miss something re: Mongo. And what is up about Song72?
There is a certain “sameness” to the comment, isn’t there?</p>
<p>USNA84: You will learn that there is no point to interacting w/ some posters. They have nothing better todo than disagree w/ anything [and we mean ANYTHING] you might offer.</p>
<p>I’m not doing any more mud wrestling on this issue, or any of the other ancillary sideshow issues that have been raised.</p>
<p>As Luigi put it, I am proud to be a grad, proud of the son who just graduated from USNA, proud of the one who will graduate, and proud to support the mission of the Naval Academy as a BGO - in spite of any heartburn I might have with some things that are happening. I can even agree with SONG72 that “A complaining sailor is a happy sailor” - that would be me… :)</p>
<p>Went back this morning and read the entire thread. There seems to be very little real discussion as to why things are they way they are at USNA today. Comparing our football team to a brothel does little to promote understanding of the inner workings of our premiere officer procurement source. </p>
<p>In summary, here is my perspective.
A. The officer corps should reflect the enlisted ranks.
B. For many years we have been able to meet the majority of our quotas by basically recruiting black athletes. The fact that statistically they made pretty good officers after graduation made this palatable. They come to play football and leave to be officers. A win-win situation. The fact that the discipline, etc etc, that a blue chip athlete brings to the table is justification for the extra RABs to make them competitive allows this to happen. Their success rate for both graduating and as officers validates this.
C. A successful football team, perhaps a few bad apples, and the resulting Bigade jealousy because football players don’t have to march in P’rades just happens to coincide with the CNO/JCS mandate that, due to changing demographics, that they are to be more proactive within the diversity arena. You do realize that the solution to the entire thing might be to let the prisoners run the prison and do away with marching.
D. In order to follow the law, someone with a lot of foresight realized that there were enough congressional districts who were historically black and were underrepresented and that these areas should be the focus of recruiting. The program, with a lot of work, has been successful. Mandated quotas are being met. Basically the only concession that has been required in order to meet minimum admissions qualifications is to adjust the racial bias of the SATs.
E. A little extra effort might be required to help some of these individuals graduate, their dismissal rate might be a little higher, but until I see evidence to the contrary, to be successful and graduate, they are meeting the exact same academic standards as the white majority. So, what is the beef?
F. Just like with women, in the beginning recruiting was required, concessions were made, and now women see the Navy as a viable career and they are able to stand on their own in admissions. The same will happen with minorities.</p>
<p>So, for the opposed:
A. As per Whistle Pig is it not necessary for the officer corps to reflect the enlisted ranks and/or the demographics of the US is not changing?
B. Do away with football and eliminate the one proven track which we have for obtaining minority officers?
C. Forget the underrepresented districts. Since they are predominitely minority they do not deserve the benefits of the rest of the United States?
D. There are better ways to meet the mandated goals within the allocated timeframe?</p>
<p>Enlighten us, beyond the statement that Fleming is correct, please. Your dime.</p>
<p>Does anyone know where I can see a copy of the latest one? I’ve seen it referenced in this and other threads and was just curious what the latest scoop is that we are giving to high schoolers in terms of admissions quals and the other. Thanks. Beat Army!</p>
<p>I’d be happy to have one of those football players pull my son up into a boat if need be. Every Midshipman has a role to play. I hope Fleming meets my son. Publicity is addictive, and if he wasn’t on a negative rant, no one in the media would be listening.</p>
<p>I read all of Flemmings books/writings when my son applied to Annapolis 2006–he really wanted in, wanted to be a Marine (he had 1400 SAT’s) max fitness scores, nomination from our Congressman. 3.8 GPA from a very competitive Jesuit HS–and then he visited. He loved Flemmings class the best. My son did not realize I was researching Annapolis, Flemming and all the “decline” charges. My son need a medical waiver for asthma… he never got it (no surprise) but he ultimately took the 4 yr. Marine scholarship and majored in liberal arts and get this, married a Naval Aviator (who had the same stats as he had, no asthma). His wife WOULD HAVE been accepted to Annapolis but I cannot imagine her staying, given all we know now from so many ROTC grads (and only two Annapolis graduates) in her flight class, and now squadron. My daughter-in-law graduated number one in her flight class–she is awesome–ahead of both Annapolis graduates which she describes as “nice guys but very stunted”…Have your son Myers Briggs tested…and if he’s an ESTJ–he has a good chance of surviving/putting up with the maze…but keep in mind, ROTC is a very honorable means to earn an officer title and beyond.</p>
<p>My second son has applied to Annapolis, fits the profile of a student athlete–hard worker, not top the top SAT’s (600 CR and 650 M) 3.95 GPA, two time TCIS conference first team offensive lineman, 6’2’’ 220 lbs, 2nd place in regional erg competition as a junior in HS–nice kid, well liked, pushed into leadership roles because everyone wants him to lead–he carries out the duty etc. He’s an ISTP–a player/performer and he would be the guy to pull another smaller team member of of (the boat, the water, the plane and so on) BUT, he does not care about status, ritual or 'elite status" and probably conveys that (not in a disprespectful way) thus his popularity at school and with peers and team members. He told the B & G officer, UVA was his first choice and Annapolis was 2nd. Bottom line, I sense another ROTC officer in the future. I don’t think Annapolis can create “turkeys” per se, but perhaps it does limit the maturation process in some ways. Personally, I like the discipline and abhor the idea of him playing video games in the fraternity house at college–but, I have seen fabulously successful ROTC aviators. Good luck deciding.</p>
<p>Song, the academies offer prep school and foundation school-- a year of intensive academic preparation for marginal academic students (many football players). As a result, the prep school mids that go on to attend the Academy graduate at slightly better rate than the 'regular" admits. SAT’s are greatly adjusted to allow for 'diversity" but the lower SAT kids undergo an additional year of 'pre-college" to give them a fighting chance to succeed.</p>
<p>Song, I agree… USNA will smooth out most of the 'academic" issues/interference where on a college campus, it’s often the case that the academics are not sympathetic to the onerous duties and schedules of the ROTC students. The students find themselves pulled in opposite directions by two authorities–one paying their tuition and the other awarding the grades. I believe the ‘seamless" aspect of USNA is a plus over ROTC, but we have a few ROTC officers now in the family–and they admit they could have “done less partying” in college … hmmm. Still, they are very accomplished officers and are well respected. It’s really what the individual student wants–how they want to spend their four years of "college’.</p>
Step right up. </p>
:D</p>