<p>I agree with Pizzagirl. Consider the source, NMD! At least, that’s what I finally realized after “worrying” that superficial nouveau-riche types had some kind of moral authority to judge individual worth of other people and their children, based on their bank accounts. And particularly when I didn’t consider them to be paragons of perfection themselves.</p>
<p>Big surprise, Ivy Admissions, Rhodes Scholarship selection, and Nobel Prize committees are fallible and subjective.</p>
<p>nmd, many, many congratulations to your D!! What an outstanding experience coupled with wonderful recognition. I see nothing at all sour in your post, only great happiness and an appropriate level of pride in your D’s outstanding outcomes and achievements. Knowing well your D’s story (while admittedly being her great fan and faraway cheer-leader) I will always suspect that her age had at least something to do with her UG options. They just couldn’t believe someone that accomplished could be that young. They were wrong.;)</p>
<p>I am very happy for her and wish her all the best.</p>
<p>Edit: And your OP will get plenty of “play” in app seasons to come.</p>
<p>NMD:</p>
<p>Continued congrats. I remember your D well, and recall how awful the experience was of getting rejections at schools where friends–many less accomplished–were being accepted. It’s very hard for a teenager to feel the sting of rejection, no matter how many wonderful acceptances one has. And anyone who has not attended the school where NMD’s D went, or has had a child who attended, cannot truly imagine the emphasis placed among its students on getting into HYP. </p>
<p>It’s always struck me as odd that so many applicants feel that it’s just “okay” or “decent.” I’ve always thought that UChicago was every bit as good as any of the Ivy League schools, and better than some (or perhaps even all). The key difference is in the Core curriculum, a true core, not the Harvard type core, and its encouragement of the pursuit of ideas.</p>
<p>Your D and U Chicago were an ideal match. Each brought out the best in the other.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The “atmosphere” is often the applicant’s high school. And the kids, while smart as all get out, are often not sophisticated. They don’t yet have the life experience. They don’t know a score of successful business people who either didn’t go to college or went to the state U closest to their house. The kids feed off of each other and certain schools emerge as “the” schools, right or wrong.</p>
<p>My niece started out at Texas A&M. Anyone who knows her at all would have predicted that she would be among the small percentage of students who hate A&M. But her year, A&M was “the” school that all the top of the class kids went to. So she did. And transferred to UT as soon as she could. (And, as it so happens, is now doing graduate work at University of Chicago.)</p>
<p>newmassdad, according to your original post your daughter is at least in her second year at Oxford. So it could be six years since her Ivy League rejections. You should have gotten over this by now.</p>
<p>^^ mean. </p>
<p>Congrats to newmassdad daughter - and him.</p>
<p>As I wrote, just as a number of people who developed relationships with NMD, I always considered his and his daughter’s experience worth sharing. However, I also remember suggesting that posting the good news about the Goldwater and the Rhodes might provoke different reactions. In my eyes, both NMD and his daughter are ENTITLED to “not getting” over it, and this because the rejection was painful and because no amount of statistics or “class” justifications can dull the sting. </p>
<p>However, at the risk of being accused of still harboring resentment or fishing for compliments, he looked at the story as one that could help others dealing with similar disappointments. </p>
<p>I hope his post will go a long way to help others.</p>
<p>xig, great post. ^^^^ You get it. </p>
<p>(nmd, don’t let’em bring you down. Remember, on cc, no good deed goes un-punished. 
)</p>
<p>…and he has also tried to be helpful toward others on CC looking to apply to scholarships, awards, etc.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I see your point. Having said that, H and I have always made it a huge point of telling our kids that really, the opinions of most people around them aren’t necessarily based on much of anything, and they need to make the decisions that are right for them and not particularly care what other people think. </p>
<p>I mean, really, my kids go to an upper middle class school where the pinnacle of everything is the state flagship (a very good flagship, to be sure) – where many of the “better” schools – even NU and U Chicago in our backyard – aren’t on people’s radar screens – and they KNOW that we (our family) are going to approach our search from a broader, wider perspective. To that end, if “all the cool kids” are going to U of Iowa this year, who cares? Good for them, but our family inhabits a bigger world. (No aspersions being cast on Iowa, just an example) </p>
<p>H is fond of saying “The average person is an idiot.” To some extent, it’s true. My kids will be visiting / applying to schools that the kids at their school won’t have heard of. Or their parents either. But big freakin’ deal. </p>
<p>I guess I don’t understand why people are putting so much stock in other people’s opinions, whether those people are of the “Ivy or bust” mentality or the “There is no world beyond the state flagship” mentality.</p>
<p>As for the “don’t know successful people who went to unknown schools,” I think that’s part of a parent’s job, to emphasize to their children that while education is undoubtedly important and striving for an excellent school is worthwhile, smart and successful people come from all backgrounds.</p>
<p>NMD, really thanks for sharing. I don’t know the background but it’s great to hear what tremendous success your D has had.</p>
<p>Congrats NMD and thanks for posting. </p>
<p>I read the post and believe NMD is telling everyone that you can accomplish many great things including top scholar awards in colleges other than the Ivy’s. Students should therefor not be worried when they don’t make the Ivy cut. Plain and simple. Those are amazing accomplishments!</p>
<p>BTW, none of this was directed towards NMD (I didn’t see his post as “bragging” at all – more power to his daughter!!) - just using it as a jumping-off point.</p>
<p>I agree Xiggi. I for one, am glad that NMD started this thread. It can help those of us who are “in the trenches” this application season. As we all know, applying to the tippy top schools is a truly a lottery. Last year’s admissions results drove home that point to me. My D. saw seemingly random results regarding which students from her school got accepted or rejected. </p>
<p>NMD’s post helps us to maintain some perspective. It really will not be the end of the world if our students don’t make it into HYPSM. And, as we saw with the Questbridge results a few days ago, many students are bound to be disappointed. Our job is to help our students see that there are many ways to be successful - something that it is all too easy to forget if one spends any amount of time here on CC!</p>
<p>I don’t understand others’ animosity toward NMD.</p>
<p>NMD, I say congrats on your dd’s accomplishments and think many who are looking at Ivies (or substitute any college their dc has his/her heart set on) this application season can gain comfort in your words.</p>
<p>
Hmmmm. Could it be …sour grapes? :eek: ;)</p>
<p>I, for one, am thrilled that his D is getting the recognition she deserves. For whatever personal reasons they have, others may not be so thrilled.</p>
<p>I am happy for NewMassDad’s daughter and glad that she has done so well. (so congrats are definitely in order).</p>
<p>But I am a little dismayed at the continuing focus on trophy-hunting, where “success” seems to be measured by the name-recognition value of the award or honor. If NMD’s daughter had gone to Chicago, graduated after 4 years with a B+ average, applied to med school and been accepted… would she be any less “successful”? </p>
<p>In order for a person to be turned down by 5 Ivies, the student first must apply to them… and I personally find it odd that anyone would want to apply to that many. (In my view it looks like a focus on prestige over substance simply because of the diversity among the Ivies – Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, Columbia, Yale – seem to me to be worlds apart in their respective collegiate environments. I can easily imagine a venn diagram which shows the nexus of interest between 2 or 3 Ivies… but with 5 or more, I start to see “impress the neighbors” as being the defining characteristic). I mean… would this particular student have chosen Brown over Chicago merely because of the Ivy label? Both are excellent schools… but provide very different academic environments. </p>
<p>And what of the 30 or so classmates that went to Harvard or other Ivies? I would assume that the majority of them graduated after 4 years or so, and went on to good jobs or graduate study. Are they now somehow less “successful” because their former classmate, rejected from the Ivies, won a Rhodes and they didn’t? </p>
<p>I’m glad that NMD’s daughter has done well and wish her the best. But I think somewhere along the line there are parents who are pushing kids too hard for brag-worthy accomplishments, or kids who are pushing themselves too hard to prove their worth to their parents or others-- who may be agonizing when they should be celebrating all of the success and accomplishments that don’t come with a designer label attached. </p>
<p>I’d like to see kids who focus on finding colleges that are good fits for their personalities and goals, and who focus on their own personal and intellectual development once in those schools – and parents who are willing to let go of the brag thing once their kid packs their bags and moves off to college. Yes… we parents are justifiably proud if our kid racks up more honors along the way. But there are kids who graduate from college and go off and join the Peace Corps… and their parents should be proud, too. (And kids who don’t do a single thing with name-recognition value – but who are respected in their academic departments, or who are working for companies or agencies or causes that are important to them)</p>
<p>calmom, I often agree with you, but really, who cares if NMD is bragging about his dd’s hot-shot award? NMD is justifiably proud. Pride – and success – are not zero-sum games. Just because he’s proud of her success doesn’t diminish the pride of other parents. He’s not saying “My dd won a Rhodes, so take that, you former classmate!!!” Or “My dd won a Rhodes so she’s better than you!” He’s saying “My dd, dejected when she didn’t get into any Ivy college, blossomed where she was planted, so know that it can happen for you, too.”</p>
<p>Maybe it’s my Southern upbringing, but I’ll assume the best in a person until proven otherwise.</p>
<p>Congratulations NMD, you certainly must be proud of your D’s accomplishments.</p>
<p>And, it is noble of you to want to give others hope in light of the difficulty that college decisions often bring. But we all know that life is full of disappointments great and small and it’s generally a good idea for kids to learn how to handle them before they apply to college. Very few things amount to the “end of the world” if you have the right perspective.</p>
<p>My one concern is giving up your D’s anonymity on here. That is a very small pool of one–recent UC grad/Goldwater/Rhodes. Is she ok with that? Would it not be enough to say that your D was recognized for her excellence, research, gifts, etc. and was awarded prestigious scholarships and/or fellowships, etc? Most ivy “rejects” will not go on to enjoy that kind of academic recognition–frankly, most ivy “accepteds” will not go on to enjoy that!!</p>
<p>Well, best of everything to your D and all the others who aspire to such great heights. There is always hope, but mostly lots of dedicated hard work to get even close to that point.</p>