The Fallacy of "Fit"

Parents Forum
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<p>If one considers what should be some of the bigger factors in choosing a college, namely net price and academic offerings, it is possible for the combination to be limiting in terms of the number of colleges that are good fits on these factors.</p>

<p>But if the student’s finances are not particularly constraining, and the student is not looking for a rare major or rare other academic interests, then it is likely that there are hundreds of colleges with acceptable or good fits to the student. Of course, some students and parents place artificial constraints (e.g. “want to go out of state” or “must stay close to home”) that can also limit the number of colleges that will fit.</p>

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<p>For those of you who do not believe “fit” is a valid criterion for selecting a school, why aren’t you sending your child to the nearest community college?</p>

<p>I am really curious to see your responses.</p>

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<p>Because my kid could get a better education at her college than the nearest community college. She would be bored out of her mind at a community college or any college which is not rigorous.</p>

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<p>Wow, really, oldfort? That would be a recipe for disaster with either of my kids. Rankings and prestige are pretty arbitrary, and students can get a great education at a lot more than the “top 20” schools.</p>

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<p>I would argue that attending a school that bored a child out of his mind would be a bad fit.</p>

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<p>Yes, really. One may not believe there is a difference between #5 vs #12, but 20 vs 50 or 50 vs 100. I don’t necessarily believe ranking and prestige are arbitrary. I am not as much of a PC parent on CC that I would tell my kids to just go where she would be happy. I asked my kids what they could do with their degrees after graduation.</p>

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<p>oldfort,</p>

<p>My question was directed towards those who believe “fit” does not matter. Clearly my question was not directed towards you.</p>

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<p>That’s the wrong strawman. If I understand the thesis here, it is that you should send your child to the “best” college to which he or she can gain admission and let “fit” be damned. </p>

<p>The problem is that most of us believe in varying degrees in <em>both</em> best-college-available AND fit. Thus, it’s rational for oldfort to prefer a top 20 over a top 50.** The real testing hypothesis here is when it comes to choosing between two schools of roughly similar quality but differing rankings in US News (or the USA Today coaches’ poll or whatever your favorite “objective” metric is). </p>

<p>So let’s go there: Dartmouth vs Brown. Dartmouth is 10th in US News this year. Brown is 14th. If you’ve visited, you’ll know that they are very different places, despite shared membership in a bad sports league. There are folks, including the OP (I think), who would say that their kid should go to Dartmouth over Brown in all circumstances because Dartmouth is better. Others would take a look at the kid, and trade “down” to Brown. </p>

<p>You can come up with your own pairings (Harvard vs Brown? Dartmouth vs Colgate?), but the point remains the same. Every family will trade off “best” vs “fit” on some sliding scale that will differ by household. If there’s one thing I’ve learned on CC, it’s that I have no idea how other people raise their kids or make those trade-offs – though I will admit to still being baffled about how many families I met at my kid’s admitted students day (at a non-Ivy US News top ten) who were actually <em>disappointed</em> that they were there rather than at a “better” school. </p>

<p>** Here, I note that I consider most of the ranking systems to be directionally accurate but unreliable at the level of distinguishing between individual schools.</p>

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<p>My apologies, but my thesis in the Original Post was far simpler than many of you gave me credit for. </p>

<p>The term “fit” has taken on an almost mystical importance in the college admission process, despite its being ambiguous, unclear, obscure, and imprecise. It means different things to different people and is oftentimes used in hindsight (Hat tip - J’adoube, p2).</p>

<p>Most objectionable to me, personally, is that it conveys such little meaning and is usually used as a conversation stopper. </p>

<p>I’ll ask another couple at dinner: “What made Lucy decide to attend SmallLac College?” The response is not that she liked the curriculum, the town, course offerings, school size, dorms, etc., but rather: “Well, after visiting 16 other schools, we visited SLC and it was just the right fit for her.” </p>

<p>Or of a Junior doing swimmingly at Bigstate U: “It’s a really good fit for him.”</p>

<p>Or of a Sophomore transferring to local community college: “The other school just wasn’t the right fit for her.”</p>

<p>We make kids write a dozen essays and hire tutors to help them, telling them to be passionate and descriptive, “show don’t tell,” etc. and then as parents, teachers and guidance counselors our advice is limited to some variation on: “find the school that is the right fit for you.”</p>

<p>Can’t we do better than that? Would we use the word “fit” if our true intention were to help our kids decide among a bunch of colleges that look very much alike?</p>

<p>How is a poor 17 /18 year old confused and stressed out teenager to feel when when he hears or reads about all these kids finding the school that is the right “fit” for them and he doesn’t even know where to start?</p>

<p>We can start helping our kids if we stop talking about “fit.”</p>

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<p>If that’s your point, then the answer is as simple as the question. As a catch-all term “fit” should be a conversation stopper because in each of these three situations you are asking about things that are none of your damned business.</p>

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<p>I think your example of the person who insists on Dartmouth over Brown is also a strawman, SomeOldGuy. I can think of a very few posters who are so rankings conscious that they would do that, but that is a tiny minority whose posts are almost always criticized. By almost any analysis - including US News, where the difference in rankings is so small as to be negligible - Dartmouth and Brown are peer schools. </p>

<p>I’m not sure where I would draw the line, in terms of quality, and it would depend a lot on the reason my kid was objecting to the “better” school. But my default would be that, unless you can give me a really compelling reason, if one of the schools you’ve been accepted to is, meaningfully more selective/prestigious etc than the others, that’s where you are going. </p>

<p>I don’t think that’s a completely shallow requirement; it isn’t as if I would tell a kid he or she shouldn’t go to a top LAC because the Ivies are better known. But I do think more selective schools tend to offer certain real advantages in terms of quality of classroom discussion, ambition of assignments, (at times) ability to attract top professors. That isn’t to say it is tragic when a kid doesn’t get into his top choice; there are many, many schools where a student can be happy and get a great education. But given the option, why not - again, unless there is a good, solid reason against it - choose the best school you’ve gotten into?</p>

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<p>I agree with this. It puts the ball in the student’s court. It also requires more research into the colleges a student applies to instead of relying solely on opinions of friends or magazine rankings. In looking for fit, students need to give some thought about what really matters to them and puts them front and center in the decision-making process. Talking about fit is just a way of looking at more parameters than just name and reputation. As long as one isn’t looking for a “perfect fit,” and realizes there are always trade-offs with most decisions, I think that having a student consider fit puts more of the responsibility for choosing on the student, which is a good thing.</p>

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<p>I think what you mean, alloutforivy, is that there is no one school that is a perfect fit for any one student. That I can agree with. But this doesn’t mean that fit is not important, just that there is more than one school that will be a good fit.</p>

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<p>Based on the follow-up post, I think the OP objects to term “fit” more than the concept - seeing the word fit, as it is currently used, as an uninformative catch-all rather than a useful factor or goal.</p>

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<p>Or have a definition of “fit”. For example, “fit” properly includes being affordable and offering the student’s desired academic majors and programs. Other factors that can go into “fit” may or may not be criteria that any given student wants to apply in selecting a school; different students will have different criteria and therefore notions of “fit”.</p>

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<p>You would really suggest that a student choose USNWR #20 Emory over USNWR #36 Georgia Tech or USNWR #41 UIUC even if the student took an interest in majoring in computer science (and all were comfortably affordable), where the latter two are much better academic fits than the first one?</p>

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<p>Or #10 Caltech over #30 UNC -chapel hill? Foolish, if you are interested in the comprehensive offerings of UNC over Caltech (which is a gem, but only for the right student). </p>

<p>I think fit can be overplayed, because some universities – I’m repeating an admissions director – are many universities. The director said, specifically, there are many many University of Michigans at UM, there are even many Harvards, and a few MITs (at Harvard & MIT, but also at UofM). There’s pretty much only one Caltech (maybe two if you stretch). So, the question of fit becomes more important as the school becomes more unique. </p>

<p>But, one can overplay the difference in fit, say between Caltech, MIT, and Harvey Mudd. One might have a preference, but its unlikely that one of those schools fit, while the others are a failure (absent, say, an unwillingness to tolerate snow, which does sound trivial to me, but might be vital to someone).</p>

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<p>alloutforivy-</p>

<p>Although I think the concept of fit has a great deal of merit, I often find people use the word “fit” to fill in for something they don’t want to say. Usually if you read between the lines it’s not all that hard to figure out how it’s being used.</p>

<p>For instance, “Well, after visiting 16 other schools, we visited SLC and it was just the right fit for her.” </p>

<p>Translation: “I don’t want to bore you with a long-winded recap of all 16 schools because I don’t think you’re really interested, but if you ask me a follow up question I’d be happy to give you more information.”</p>

<p>Or of a Junior doing swimmingly at Bigstate U: “It’s a really good fit for him.”</p>

<p>Translation: It’s where he got in.</p>

<p>Or of a Sophomore transferring to local community college: “The other school just wasn’t the right fit for her.”</p>

<p>Translation: “She flamed out at her former school and we really don’t want to talk about it.”</p>

<p>“Why aren’t you sending Junior to State U?” “It just wasn’t the right fit for him.” </p>

<p>Translation: Duh, because he got into HARVARD. State U may be a perfectly good school, but why would he pass up Harvard? What do you want me to say, “because he’s brilliant?”</p>

<p>“We’re looking for just the right fit.”</p>

<p>Translation: “We’re looking for a decent school we can afford. Yes, he has the grades to get into the school your child attends but we just can’t afford it.”</p>

<p>“We looked at it, but it wasn’t the right fit.”</p>

<p>Translation: “My daughter wouldn’t attend that school if you paid her, but for all we know it’s your son’s first choice or your alma mater so we’re not going to put it down.”</p>

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<p>^^^^lol, Sue, probably a lot of truth to that.</p>

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Then there are the kids like me, who were told that they were going to the local university or they weren’t going at all. It was up to you to make it fit, or make your way without a college degree. I made it fit and did graduate debt-free, but am making sure my Ss have a say in where they go to school (although $$$ is the final determinant.)</p>