<p>You can say whatever you want just like I can do the same.</p>
<p>But of course :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, I agree that most organized religions began as attempts to bring stability to society. But I have never argued against that point. I simply stated that the problems of society are the results of human nature and not organized relgions. So, how exactly did I contradict myself?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>the problems of society are results of human nature
religion is a result of human nature.
religion has created problems.</p>
<p>so in fact, we can blame a fair amount of our problems on religion.</p>
<p>everkingly:
I am a Muslim woman and I do not consider myself oppressed. My parents, coming from a foreign Muslim country, do not consider women oppressed to the extent that women are beaten/torture and put to public shame because of their crimes against a religion.</p>
<p>It is nice that you read that information about those muslim women, i guess, but honestly, oppression/torture of women is definitely more a cultural phenomenon than a religious belief. The "Muslim World" constitutes much, much more than just the Middle East, which is where most of these crimes against women occur. Islam is present all over the world... and the country with the higest percentage of Muslims in the population is.. you guessed it.. the Phillpines. Followed closely by Bangladesh, I believe, where my parents hail from, which is in Southeast Asia - nowhere near the Middle East.</p>
<p>I am not afraid to say that the Middle East often treats women like crap... however, this is not religious, but more of a cultural phenomenon. Like I said, the "Muslim World" is more than the Middle East. Can you honestly find me a verse in the Qu'ran that says that a woman is not allowed to drive? Not allowed to learn? Is required to cover her whole body so thoroguly that her eyes, face, hands, and feet are not allowed to be shown? That a woman is supposed to/expected to submit to public humiliation/torture/beatings under the name of religion? </p>
<p>Islam is very by the book. What you're seeing on the news and by the media is not Muslim, it's not Islamic, it's cultural.</p>
<p>This is an excellent clarification. It definitely seems that lot of what is criticized as the faults of the "Muslim World" is just the Arab world.</p>
<p>everkingly: I know what you meant with that quote, it's just that you don't show that in the posts that you wrote, a lot of them were very biased against Islam in general..</p>
<p>
[quote]
Can you please provide unbiased statistical data to back up this claim?
[/quote]
Yeah, I'll look for one...</p>
<p>
[quote]
so in fact, we can blame a fair amount of our problems on religion.
[/quote]
No, actually it's the opposite, people make problems and try to justify them by using their religion, it's not the religion that causes it.</p>
<p>I couldn't possibly put it any better than fjchowdhury.</p>
<p>fjchowdhury:
[Quote]
I am a Muslim woman and I do not consider myself oppressed. My parents, coming from a foreign Muslim country, do not consider women oppressed to the extent that women are beaten/torture and put to public shame because of their crimes against a religion.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I'm happy to hear that you are not being oppressed. But as I have pointed out earlier, you live in Western society very far away from the reaches of the Muslim world.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
It is nice that you read that information about those muslim women, i guess, but honestly, oppression/torture of women is definitely more a cultural phenomenon than a religious belief. The "Muslim World" constitutes much, much more than just the Middle East, which is where most of these crimes against women occur. Islam is present all over the world... and the country with the higest percentage of Muslims in the population is.. you guessed it.. the Phillpines. Followed closely by Bangladesh, I believe, where my parents hail from, which is in Southeast Asia - nowhere near the Middle East.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Oh and by the way, maybe I wasn't clear before so I'll try to clarify. When I refer to the Muslim world, I am referring to those countries that have a majority Muslim population and have strong theocratic elements.</p>
<p>But no one can say that the Middle East is not very influential in Islam. Quite simply, the Middle East is the focal point of Islam much like Israel is to Judaism and the Vatican is to Catholicism.</p>
<p>I'm not sure where you get this misguided notion that the Philippines has the highest Muslim percentage in the world. The Philippines is a primarily Roman Catholic nation with a Muslim percentage of only 5 percent. Bangladesh has a Muslim percentage of 83 percent which is far lower than the 100 percent Muslim population of Saudi Arabia which is by far the most Muslims nation in terms of percent. I got all of this data from the CIA World Factbook online which is a highly credible site.</p>
<p>Me_:
[Quote]
No, actually it's the opposite, people make problems and try to justify them by using their religion, it's not the religion that causes it.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Nicely put. I quite agree.</p>
<p>Me_:
[Quote]
everkingly: I know what you meant with that quote, it's just that you don't show that in the posts that you wrote, a lot of them were very biased against Islam in general..
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Any specific post? You're again being very vague here. Maybe you're referring to a few really early posts which I must tell you that I don't stand by any more.</p>
<p>Christian and Muslim persecution of pagans
-persecution of 'heretics', Islamic jihads, Christian crusades
-Christian persecution against Albigenses in France (launched by Pope Innocent, if you appreciate the irony of it), Spanish Inquistion
-battles between Catholics and Protestants (Huguenots vs Catholics)
-the Pogroms, witch hunts, human sacrifices (Hindu sect of the Thuggees- devotees of the goddess Kali..incidentally, thats where the word thug comes from)
-persecution of Catholics in England under Cromwell, Thirty-years War
-Islamic persecution of Bahaiis, human sacrifices by Buddhists in Burma (in the mid 19th century)
-Sepoy Mutiny in India where both Indians and European civilians were massacred
-the Armenian genocide, Hindu-Muslim strifes in post independant India (believe me this was bad- my family experienced it first hand)
-civil war in Sudan between Christians and Muslims, Jim Jones in 1978, Catholic terrorism in Ireland
-more Hindu-Muslim riots in Assam, Bahaii persecution in Iran, Buddhist and Hindu conflicts in Sri Lanka
-Sikh violence against Hindus (killing of Indira Gandhi), Hindu massacre of Sikhs
-Islamic terrorism vs Israel and any secular nation continues to this day
-Finally, Christians oppose life saving technology like abortion and stem cell research</p>
<p>Yea, religion was simply a scapegoat, right?</p>
<p>Here we go again. <em>sigh</em></p>
<p>You really do like repeating yourself don't you, w1cked?</p>
<p>At least he has proof to back his arguments up everkingly.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>My concrete evidence vs your rhetoric?</p>
<p>
[quote]
But no one can say that the Middle East is not very influential in Islam. Quite simply, the Middle East is the focal point of Islam much like Israel is to Judaism and the Vatican is to Catholicism.
[/quote]
It may seem like that, but it's not true. For example, Syria is 74% Muslim, while Pakistan, a non-Arab country is 97% Muslim. Or bangledis, which is 83% Muslim. Sure Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim, but that is only one Country. Or Mali, which is 90 % Muslim.. It may seem like the Arab countries have the most Muslims, but not all of them have that many, like I said in a past quote, only 30% of Muslims are Arabs. The other countries I spoke of that have high percentages are not Arab nations...
These percentages came from the CIA World Fact Book.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Islamic terrorism vs Israel and any secular nation continues to this day
[/quote]
Could you exlpain this? Are you saying that Isreal is a secular nation?</p>
<p>Yea Israel is absolutely a secular nation. Although founded by Jews, they allow freedom of religion, press, expression, etc. There are Arabs in the Israeli govt., even the ones who are fervently anti Israeli. Road signs in Israel are both in Hebrew and Arabic. Israel is 1000X more tolerant of Arabs than the other way around.</p>
<p>"30% of Muslims are Arabs". That's like saing .1% of Christians are Vaticaninans (sp. haha). What you need to prove is that 30% of Arabs are Muslims, not the other way around.</p>
<p>Notice:</p>
<p>1.) How male, non-Muslims b1tch about women being oppressed in Muslim nations.
2.) At the same time, Muslim females here claim not to be oppressed. I'd rather go believe them :)
3.) Also notice how non-Muslims are taking this opporytunity to bash Islam when then know well that Islam does not preach violence and oppression of women. All the internal probelms can be attributed to cultural phenomenon.
4.) Israel is secular? hahaha. Jews are priveleged citizens of Israel. The big chunk of Israelis favor a theocratic Jewish state based on religious doctrines.</p>
<p>I'm, out. I am at the risk of becoming stupid is I come back to this lame thread.</p>