The Fury of the Muslim World-Mohammed Cariacatures

College Confidential Community
701

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1.) How male, non-Muslims b1tch about women being oppressed in Muslim nations.

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<p>Point being? </p>

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2.) At the same time, Muslim females here claim not to be oppressed. I'd rather go believe them

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<p>Ever read Plato's "The Cave?"</p>

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3.) Also notice how non-Muslims are taking this opporytunity to bash Islam when then know well that Islam does not preach violence and oppression of women. All the internal probelms can be attributed to cultural phenomenon.

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<p>Possibly. But then why does it seem to be a fairly common thing in a number of Muslim nations?</p>

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4.) Israel is secular? hahaha. Jews are priveleged citizens of Israel. The big chunk of Israelis favor a theocratic Jewish state based on religious doctrines.

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<p>Not necessarily true. In fact, it seems that a good majority of Jews are opposed to the theocritization of Israel.</p>

702

<p>evil<em>asian</em>dictator:

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At least he has proof to back his arguments up everkingly.

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<p>What in the world are you talking about? What evidence are you talking about? Many of my posts contain statistical data, literary sources and on-line sources. What you have you ever shown that can remotely be considered evidence?</p>

703

<p>Me_:

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It may seem like that, but it's not true. For example, Syria is 74% Muslim, while Pakistan, a non-Arab country is 97% Muslim. Or bangledis, which is 83% Muslim. Sure Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim, but that is only one Country. Or Mali, which is 90 % Muslim.. It may seem like the Arab countries have the most Muslims, but not all of them have that many, like I said in a past quote, only 30% of Muslims are Arabs. The other countries I spoke of that have high percentages are not Arab nations...
These percentages came from the CIA World Fact Book.

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<p>First of all, I can't believe I'm actually having this conversation. </p>

<p>Secondly, you're looking too much into numbers. The Middle East especially Saudi Arabia is the focal point of Islam because it is the historical birthplace of islam, contains the holiest sunni and shia cities, all Muslims pray towards Mecca, most Muslims make pilgrimages to Mecca and finally most Muslim nations bear strong cultural, spiritual, architectural, literary, scholoraly, intellectual, political, and economic similarities with the Middle East. The Middle East is definately the center of Islam and if someone wants to argue with that why don't they point to the true source or "capital" of Islam.</p>

704

<p>UCLAri:
100 percent behind you.</p>

705

<p>Depravity-Waltz:

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Notice:</p>

<p>1.) How male, non-Muslims b1tch about women being oppressed in Muslim nations
2.) At the same time, Muslim females here claim not to be oppressed. I'd rather go believe them

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<p>Easily! The two Muslim females who say they have never been oppressed live in non-Muslim nations. Get your facts straight or don't waste my time!</p>

<p>Who said that they weren't telling the truth. I'm extremely happy for them but how can you take the testimony of two women living in the free Western world and compare it to numerous testimonies of honor killings in Muslim nations.</p>

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3.) Also notice how non-Muslims are taking this opporytunity to bash Islam when then know well that Islam does not preach violence and oppression of women. All the internal probelms can be attributed to cultural phenomenon.

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<p>Who's bashing Islam? Who has said anything recently about Islam oppressing women. Everyone has just said that many Muslim women are being oppressed in predominantly Muslim nations.</p>

<p>In addition, I don't know if I agree with all of this "cultural phenomenon" bologne. If only Arab culture oppresses women then explain to me why Muslim non-Arab nations hamper the rights of women. Look at countries like Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (to a certain degree), Malaysia, Indonesia and many more.</p>

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4.) Israel is secular? hahaha. Jews are priveleged citizens of Israel. The big chunk of Israelis favor a theocratic Jewish state based on religious doctrines.

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<p>How so? You're being very vague. Most Jews actually are opposed to a theocratic state. Why else is a huge segment of the Israeli population turning its support to the Kadima and labor parties that are opposed to the theocratization of Israel. Even the Likud party does not publicly endorse a theocratic state. Yes, Likud is very conservative but conservative does not always equal theocratic.</p>

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I'm, out. I am at the risk of becoming stupid is I come back to this lame thread.

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<p>Can't say that I'm going to miss you.</p>

706

<p>everkingly: Wow, Muslim countries arent the only ones who "hamper the rights of women," as you say. You're acting as if every other country except Muslim ones are 100% perfect in the treatment of women. There are plenty of Muslim countries that treat women just fine, but as I said the CULTURE, meaning the CONSERVATIVE CULTURE of these countries really influence how they treat women, children, races, and even men... for instance, black people used to be discriminated against in this country, but are you going to blame that on the Christian philosophy that constitutes most of the United States? Women also used to be oppressed until very recently, and even moreso further back in history.. does this make it a totally Christian phenomenon? I hope not... culture is culture, religion is religion. They get intertwined, yes, but ISLAM itself does not preach the degradation of women... it is merely the culture.. before you go bash about how Muslim countries treat women like crap, maybe you should read the Qu'ran and see exactly how women are being thoroughly oppressed as you imply and where it teaches that women should be raped and beaten on a regular basis... right? For goodness sake.</p>

<p>And oh, I'm sorry that you feel that you know me so well.. how do you know that I wasn't born and raised in Bangladesh but moved here in my early teens? However, though I was born here, I know many girls who moved here in the United States in their teenage years, both Bengali and Non-Bengali, all Muslim, who can testify to the fact that they never felt oppressed in their respective countries BECAUSE OF ISLAM. If htey ever felt oppressed or degraded it was because of the freaking culture. I like how you're being so steadfast in your beliefs that you can't believe testimonies from Muslim women who probably know a lot more about teh Muslim culture and it's descrepancies towards Islam than you do, just through the environment we grew up in. And yes, I'm sorry about that Phillipines misquote, but I could have sworn I heard it somwhere.. but thats not the point.</p>

<p>And oh yeah.. just because Mecca may be the center of Islam does not necessarily mean that the countries around it are any more Muslim or true to Islam than a Muslim sitting here in the Western World. </p>

<p>Cheers</p>

707

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Well first off, you make a sweeping generalization by saying that Arab culture "oppresses" women since that judgment of yours is based on your own perspective. Oppression doesn't neccessarily have a universal meaning and just because some countries don't grant women the complete privileges that they offer men, that doesn't mean they neccessarily "oppress" women, especially if these nations aren't democracy.</p>

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It doesn't matter if most Jews are "opposed" to a theocratic state or not when the fact of the matter is that Israel has historically been one. Hell, Israel was formed for specifically for the free Jews who Moses saved from enslavement by Christians. Even though Israel is more open to the entrance of other religions, UCLAri hit it on the spot when he said that the Jewish people are priveleged citizens of Israel.</p>

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I wish I could say the same for you as well.:rolleyes:</p>

708

<p>fjchowdhury:

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Wow, Muslim countries arent the only ones who "hamper the rights of women," as you say. You're acting as if every other country except Muslim ones are 100% perfect in the treatment of women.

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<p>I have never said that there are not other nations that hamper women's rights. You are extremely correct in pointing that out but then again look at the title of this forum: "The Fury of the MUSLIM WORLD-Mohammed Caricatures". If there was another thread that was dedicated to a discussion of female rights throughout the world then you could bet that I would be there arguing for female equality. We're on the same side with respect to this.</p>

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There are plenty of Muslim countries that treat women just fine, but as I said the CULTURE, meaning the CONSERVATIVE CULTURE of these countries really influence how they treat women, children, races, and even men... for instance, black people used to be discriminated against in this country, but are you going to blame that on the Christian philosophy that constitutes most of the United States?

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<p>Yes, I agree there are a few Muslim nations that believe in female equality. But here you again with this culture nonsense. First of all, you need to learn that culture is a very broad defination that is composed of several aspects. Aspects like political, social, economic and RELIGIOUS topics form a culture. Religion (or lack of) is an essential part of any culture. In addition, you are avoiding my question. So, I'm reposting it right here: If only the Arab culture oppresses women then explain to me why Muslim non-Arab nations hamper the rights of women. Look at countries like Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (to a certain degree), Malaysia, Indonesia and many more.</p>

<p>With respect to your post about Blacks being discriminated against in the U.S. and Christianity. I have to first point out that the United States has never been and will never be a theocratic state like many present-day Muslim nations (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Malaysia, Sudan, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh...). So, the U.S. (a secular nation) believed in slavery and the discrimination against Blacks. In addition, it was actually numerous CHRISTIAN groups and political parties that eventually brought down slavery and started the Civil Rights movement. Thus, many can conclude that actually Christianity has saved the Black population from much discrimination.</p>

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Women also used to be oppressed until very recently, and even moreso further back in history.. does this make it a totally Christian phenomenon? I hope not... culture is culture, religion is religion. They get intertwined, yes, but ISLAM itself does not preach the degradation of women... it is merely the culture...

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<p>First of all, have I recently said that Islam preaches the oppression of women? NO! You're just inferring that from my posts. If you are feeling like I am offending your religion, then I apologize. I am just saying that there seems to be a link among Muslim nations that spurs them to oppress women. Now, it may be culture like you have said (I don't believe that personally) or it maybe some other connection. I'm not saying one way or another. </p>

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before you go bash about how Muslim countries treat women like crap, maybe you should read the Qu'ran and see exactly how women are being thoroughly oppressed as you imply and where it teaches that women should be raped and beaten on a regular basis... right? For goodness sake.

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<p>I have every single right to "bash" Muslim countries for their disgusting degradation of women. And here I though we were on the same side: pro-women's rights. I guess I was wrong. I am deeply disappointed in you. How can you say that we should not criticize Muslim countries for degrading women? We should always call out nations to bring about gender equality.</p>

<p>I'm not sure you're reading my posts correctly or maybe you are just not paying attention. But I recently have never said that the Quran calls for the oppression of women and I have never even made a reference to rape with respect to the Quran.</p>

709

<p>fjchowdhury:

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And oh, I'm sorry that you feel that you know me so well.. how do you know that I wasn't born and raised in Bangladesh but moved here in my early teens?

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<p>Actually, I think that you said that your parents were born in Bangladesh which implies that you were not born there and instead were born here. I guess I was right though, wasn't I?</p>

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However, though I was born here, I know many girls who moved here in the United States in their teenage years, both Bengali and Non-Bengali, all Muslim, who can testify to the fact that they never felt oppressed in their respective countries BECAUSE OF ISLAM. If htey ever felt oppressed or degraded it was because of the freaking culture.

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<p>Now, you're just sounding ignorant and immature. Your use of "freaking" shows just how immature you are and how you can't carry a civil discourse. Once again, I have to say that religion is an immense part of culture and more so in countries that are theocratic like Bangladesh.</p>

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I like how you're being so steadfast in your beliefs that you can't believe testimonies from Muslim women who probably know a lot more about teh Muslim culture and it's descrepancies towards Islam than you do, just through the environment we grew up in. And yes, I'm sorry about that Phillipines misquote, but I could have sworn I heard it somwhere.. but thats not the point.

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<p>You're really funny you know that. First you try to explain how I can trust everything you say and then you admit to making up bogus statistics. You're really thick, aren't you?</p>

<p>It''s totally the point. If you can't even check your own facts and statistics then how can I ever believe anything you say? To me, you're no longer credible.</p>

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And oh yeah.. just because Mecca may be the center of Islam does not necessarily mean that the countries around it are any more Muslim or true to Islam than a Muslim sitting here in the Western World.

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<p>I don't believe there is a true anything person. There is no true Muslim or true Christian or true Buddhist nowadays because as far as I'm concerned everyone is a sinner and commits crimes against theire faiths. I hope you are not referring to yourself when you said that about a person in Western society being true to society. You have only proven to be a highly immature young person who lacks any crediblity and if you are the true Muslim then that's just sad.</p>

710

<p>evil<em>asian</em>dictator:

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Just because the two Muslim girls who posted on this thread live in the western world now, that doesn't mean they or their families never lived in the Middle East. I'm sure their statements, backed up by support of the experiences of their families and personal relations back home, hold more credence than your bold assertions that is biased by the culturally ignorant western media.

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<p>Who ever said that they or their families have never lived in the Middle East?</p>

<p>"Culturally ignorant Western media". Are you kidding me? Here we go again with how there is a Jewish conspiracy that owns the entire Western media and fabricates all of these malicious stories against poor and defenseless Muslims. Please, don't make me sick.</p>

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Umm, you did dumbass. By saying that Muslim women are being oppressed in predominantly Muslim countries, you basically concede to bashing the virtues of Islam when you also believe that the Middle East is the "focal point" of Islam.

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<p>I see that you haven't lost your penchant for ad hominem attacks that are completely baseless. It's people like you that makes me very happy to be a part of a different religion. I repeat once again that I have absolutely no place in criticizing the "virtues of Islam". You are simply inferring that.</p>

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Well first off, you make a sweeping generalization by saying that Arab culture "oppresses" women since that judgment of yours is based on your own perspective. Oppression doesn't neccessarily have a universal meaning and just because some countries don't grant women the complete privileges that they offer men, that doesn't mean they neccessarily "oppress" women, especially if these nations aren't democracy.

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<p>If you actually look at who that post had been addressed to you would have noticed that it was Depravity-Waltz who had made that generalization of Arab culture. I was simply replying to his/her overgeneralization. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should address your concerns to her instead of wasting my time.</p>

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It doesn't matter if most Jews are "opposed" to a theocratic state or not when the fact of the matter is that Israel has historically been one. Hell, Israel was formed for specifically for the free Jews who Moses saved from enslavement by Christians. Even though Israel is more open to the entrance of other religions, UCLAri hit it on the spot when he said that the Jewish people are priveleged citizens of Israel.

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<p>First of all, Israel has never been a theocratic state. Israel has purely secular parties and has always been a secular nation. </p>

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Israel was formed for specifically for the free Jews who Moses saved from enslavement by Christians.

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<p>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moses saved the Hebrews from enslavement under the EGYPTIANS who were pagan and not Christian. There were no Christians in the world at the time of Moses. Jesus Christ was not alive for thousands of years after Moses had died.</p>

<p>Also, UCLAri was arguing against the false notion that Jews are priveledged citizens in Israel. It was Depravity-Waltz who made that claim. You're really messing up aren't you. Maybe you need glasses or some literary classes. Either way I can't help you.</p>

711

<p>Sorry for the long posts.</p>

712

<p>Too lazy to read, summarize in 10-12 sentences please.</p>

713

<p>Stop blatantly lying everkingly...now you're just being a sore loser. It's OK to lose and there's no shame in conceding now to your fallacious and unresponsive arguments before I proceed to dismantle your claims. You're just using Depravity_Waltz as a scapegoat now you silly boy.</p>

714

<p>Ditto gumball.</p>

715

<p>Arguing with everkingly is a waste of time. He's too convinced that his way is right, no matter what. If he says that girls don't wear green shirts, and I tell him that I'm a girl and I'm wearing a green shirt, he'll change his argument to say, "I meant that all girls in non-Arab nations don't wear green shirts, I never said that all girls everywhere don't wear green shirts."</p>

<p>When you say that women are oppressed in Muslim nations, you're implying that it's because of Islam. Either provide proof from the Quran and Hadith, which, contrary to your opinion that all Muslims, worldwide, follow the word of the leaders of the Arab nations, are what Islam is actually based on; or stop blaming things on predominantly Muslim nations and saying "oh no, i don't mean it's because of islam, i mean its because they're a muslim nation."</p>

<p>Now that I've made my ad hominem attack of the day, I'll let you be. I have better things to do.</p>

716

<p>To maybe clear things up here...</p>

<p>I personally don't know what to make of Israel. It is technically a secular state, yet it has serious Jewish overtones even in its governance. Are Jews, as someone suggested, a "privileged class?" Maybe yes, and maybe no.</p>

<p>I do believe that most Israelis oppose the further theocritization of Israel. On the other hand, Israel is clearly a "Jewish state." That's inherently theocratic. After all, Judaism is a religion.</p>

<p>But are Muslims an "underclass," as some suggest? I don't think so. And if they are, then they're not nearly as repressed as say blacks during South African apartheid. I mean, I've known at least a few Israeli Arabs, and none seemed to suggest that they weren't able to get good jobs and be treated well. Let's not forget that the Knesset does have a large number of non-Jewish MPs. Israel is obviously a state at least nominally interested in offering representation to its minorities.</p>

<p>So, is it great to be an Arab or Muslim in Israel? Not always. But those that I know who did live in Israel said that they never felt like the society was actively persecuting them.</p>

717

<p>Wow, can you believe that such intolerance and bigotry still exists in the world?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/23/afghan.christian.ap/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/23/afghan.christian.ap/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

718

<p>You are surprised by this? This is what religion brings, no exceptions.</p>

719

<p>Not necessarily religion, w1cked. Nice try though.</p>

720

<p>Don't make me laundrylist religious atrocities. No one is as blind as those who do not see.</p>