<p>No, the argument is not settled. There are currently evil Muslims and evil Christians that commit attrocities against humans. However, there is a stark difference between the history of Islam and the history of Christianity. </p>
<p>Let's start with Christianity. Jesus Christ and the apostles were deeply peaceful individuals that never perpetrated violence against anyone including their murderers. They never molested anyone. In addition, they never gained anything from preaching Christianity and in most cases actually suffered from being preachers of the Christian faith.
The current pedophilia scandal within the CATHOLIC CHURCH (not all of Christianity) is unjustifiable. No one has even attempted to justify it because Christianity gives absolutely no support to pedophilia. </p>
<p>Islam is much different. Muhammed gained some followers through peaceful means and then resorted to violence to expand his empire. He funded his military campaigns by stealing from Arab caravans. Is stealing from trade caravans self-defense. I think not! Muhammed began as a relatively well-off merchant and then expanded his personal net worth exponentially by proclaiming himself a prophet of God (Jesus Christ warned of false prophets that claimed to be agents of God only to make themselve more wealthy and powerful, I think we should heed his dire warnings). Muhammed justified all of this by proclaiming Jihad. Thus, it is all too easy for extremists to justify their actions since Muhammed established the notion of justified violence in order to further the cause (a.k.a. rid the planet of non-Muslims, the evil infidels). Muslim extremists are not manipulating Islam because in many ways Islam does justify violence.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, Muhammed and his earliest followers not only resorted to violence but enthusiastically supported the concept of conversion through military expansion.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Could you please give me some solid facts, with sources, to back up these statements you keep making?</p>
<p>That aside, here's something I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it to me:</p>
<p>Why is it, that when an actual MUSLIM tells someone that no, Islam does not preach violence, some people have a difficult time beleiving it? For example:</p>
<p>Random person: You Muslims are terrorists.
Muslim: Actually no, we are quite peaceful. (proceeds to back up statement with sources such as the Quran and hadith - what Muslims are supposed to follow)
Random person: (disregarding everything the Muslim has stated) No, I'm right. Too bad. </p>
<p>Can we not generalize here? How is it, when you get an actual Muslim telling you that Islam is peaceful, and that what terrorists do in the name of Islam is not actually what Islam preaches, you find it so hard to beleive? I'd just like to know why. Do you think we're lying? Who would that actually benefit? Do you think we've somehow been mislead? By who? Someone with a devious plan to preach Islam as -gasp- something peaceful?</p>
<p>EVERKINGLY
CAN YOU READ???
honestly, you should retake your freshmen english course.</p>
<p>"Jews have corrupted the media in order to make Muslims look bad."</p>
<p>I never said that Jews corrupted the media? I think you're the conspiracy buff to make an assumption like. Anyone would rather make news about war than peace. Newspapers and news channels give the people more or less what they want to hear to get more viewers, and then because of that better commercial offers, blah blah blah to make money!! Now, of course, not all newspapers/stations/channels do that, but the most do. When you look at a newspaper that talks about Iraq. You see at the bottom of the page, "Lt. John Doe died from a road side bomb..." and then next to that in big letters MUSLIM JIHADISTS BLEW UP ... Sick or not, people are attracted to bigger, bolder headlines.</p>
<p>" little green men visited Roswell"</p>
<p>Okay, honestly, grow up. Everyone on this board is trying to have a mature debate.</p>
<p>"But it has been noted by many historians throughout the past, and if you try to look for some I am sure you will find many examples of this"</p>
<p>I already told you to go look it up for your own good, and its funny that you arent replying to my other comments on the relationship between Islam and Christianity.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Why is it, that when an actual MUSLIM tells someone that no, Islam does not preach violence, some people have a difficult time beleiving it? For example:</p>
<p>Random person: You Muslims are terrorists.
Muslim: Actually no, we are quite peaceful. (proceeds to back up statement with sources such as the Quran and hadith - what Muslims are supposed to follow)
Random person: (disregarding everything the Muslim has stated) No, I'm right. Too bad. </p>
<p>Can we not generalize here? How is it, when you get an actual Muslim telling you that Islam is peaceful, and that what terrorists do in the name of Islam is not actually what Islam preaches, you find it so hard to beleive? I'd just like to know why. Do you think we're lying? Who would that actually benefit? Do you think we've somehow been mislead? By who? Someone with a devious plan to preach Islam as -gasp- something peaceful?
<p>Hairypotty: Yes, I have met Muslims. I live in an area of northern Illinois where Muslims are the largest religious minority. I even have several Muslim friends. I am sorry to offend you but I only try to offer objective statements that are not biased but based on clear cut observations that many people are voicing. It's fine that the characteristics of Muslim terrorists don't apply to you, I never said they did. I have only said that the actions of Muhammed and his followers support violence in order to further the spread of Islam. Terrorists simply take this justification of violence and use it to justify the brutal murders of Christians, and Jews.</p>
<p>Do not take it out on the media. The American media are by far the most unbiased in the world. The media only present the facts. You can only twist facts to a certain extent. We have to concede that there is a certain component (either minor or major) in Islam that actually supports violence. The Quran mostly supports peace but Muhammed's actions stand in stark contrast to the Quran's text. My only possible reasoning is that either Muhammed was a great sinner that mistakenly forgot God's message of piece and was lured by the prospects of material and political gain or that Muhammed was the greatest hypocrite of all time.</p>
<p>Again, I apologize for offending you but we have to face the facts.</p>
<p>Everkingly, on other threads on this website I have debated with other people on issues concerning Islam, the middle east etc, and serioulsy, you are the most brainwashed. Read your post. You start off by saying "Jesus Christ and the apostles were deeply peaceful individuals that never perpetrated violence" and then you go to "He funded his military campaigns by stealing from Arab caravans. Is stealing from trade caravans self-defense". This is ridiculous, you are terrible at proving points.</p>
<p>"Muhammed began as a relatively well-off merchant and then expanded his personal net worth exponentially by proclaiming himself a prophet of God."</p>
<p>WHAT?? What is wrong with you????? How can you claim this? What? he "expanded his personal net worth exponentially"???? how are you gonna back this up?? He gave his wealth to the poor. And for one thing, yes, Jesus Christ and his apostles were peaceful. Didn't one of them betray him?? That doesnt sound like true faith to me. And seriously, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you are Christian. If I slapped you on the face what would you do? Muslim's proclaim violence when necessary for defense. The terrorists are doing what they are because they believe that they are being attacked by the west and do not want western influence in thier land. And there are alot of pedophilia cases amongst many reverends. There has never been this among rabbi's, mullah's, imam's, hindu priests, or anything. Honestly, I think molesting a little boy who views you as a father figure is nastier than picking up a gun to fight against people who are occupying your homeland.</p>
<p>
[quote]
First of all, there is a very small minority of Muslims who believe that Jihad is only Holy War. The reason that you do not hear about what the rest of the Muslims think is because the media would never air it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If that's the case, then why does the violence grow to widespread? If 99% of Muslims are peaceful and against Jihad, then how come they can't control that 1%? Because they are just sitting idle? Why there seems to be no Muslim spiritual leaders coming out to condemn the violence? If 99% of the Muslims are peaceful, how come they have governments in Iran/Syria that seem to condone such violence? How does that kind of governments exist at the first place? With the support of only tiny population? Why Islam seems to have more radicals than any other religion? I think many of us would like to know the answers.</p>
<p>Guguru:<br>
"I already told you to go look it up for your own good, and its funny that you arent replying to my other comments on the relationship between Islam and Christianity."</p>
<p>What other comments are you referring to? I'm sorry but I'm currently replying to about eight people on numerous threads all the while writing in English AP research paper on Islam (funny how things work).</p>
<p>Sorry, I guess I got a little carried away with the conspiracy comment. It's just it really annoys me when people learn about Christianity from The Da Vinci Code which was written by an English major. The Da Vinci Code is possibly the most far-fetched conspiracy theory (although the one about Bush being an alien might be more loony, you be the judge).</p>
<p>By the way, I'll let you in on a little secret. I actually CAN read and sometimes I can write too. SHHH! Remember to keep it a secret.</p>
<p>"If 99% of Muslims are peaceful and against Jihad, then how come they can't control that 1%?"</p>
<p>I dunno I don't live in the middle east, but I'm guessing because they don't have guns, and we don't know how many are/are not controlled by the majority of Muslims who are not terrorists.</p>
<p>"If 99% of the Muslims are peaceful, how come they have governments in Iran/Syria that seem to condone such violence?"</p>
<p>Iran has not committed actions that can be deemed terrorist. I am talking about real terrorist terrorists. Those make up a small percentage, and thier supporters are just as small. Unfortunately these are the loudest among Muslims.</p>
<p>"How does that kind of governments exist at the first place?"</p>
<p>Revolts because the previous governments had been corrupt, dictatorships backed by the west.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Muhammad himself survived several assassination attempts, and the early Muslim community narrowly escaped extermination by the powerful city of Mecca. The Prophet had to fight a deadly war in order to survive, but as soon as he felt his people were probably safe, he devoted his attention to building up a peaceful coalition of tribes and achieved victory by an ingenious and inspiring campaign of nonviolence. When he died in 632, he had almost single-handedly brought peace to war-torn Arabia.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>The rulers in the country Muhammad lived in were trying to kill him because he told people that there is an existence of God. He told them not to worship to statues and stones. This angered the greedy rulers and scared people as well. The rulers sent people to kill Muhammad. So, Muhammad had to protect himself and his followers. That's why there was a 'holy war.' IN SELF-DEFENSE AND FOR PEACE!</p>
<p>"I'm sorry but I'm currently replying to about eight people on numerous threads all the while writing in English AP research paper on Islam (funny how things work)."</p>
<p>lololol, I'm writing an analysis on the poem Old Ironsides, but thats not funny lol.</p>
<p>"By the way, I'll let you in on a little secret. I actually CAN read and sometimes I can write too. SHHH! Remember to keep it a secret."</p>
<p>Guguru:
Absolutely outrageous!
How dare you say that MURDER is less of a crime than pedophilia. Use your Idiotic mind for once you crazed lunatic!
Oh there may not be pedophiles that are Muslim clerics but there are plenty that either advocate murder or actually commit it and I (like most) consider murder to be a far greater crime than pedophilia.</p>
<p>How dare you justify terrorism as just an innocent act by a deperate person trying to reclaim his homeland. It's people like you that prove that Islam actually does justify violence. Listen to yourself! I think you are the extremist.</p>
<p>In addition, all the preachers of religions (rabbis, mullahs, imams, hindu priests and others) are not sinless and there are indeed many instance of Muslim clerics and Jewish rabbis that have committed pedophile acts. There was a news report on MSNBC in which a Jewish rabbi tried to have sex with a 13 year old boy and there are numerous reports of Islamic clerics that have raped women and men throughout the ME (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Lebanon and Iraq for sure).</p>
<p>Hairypotty: In the beginning, Muhammed and his followers might have had to resort to violence in self-defense but only to a certain point. Do you actually believe that the early Muslims conquered northern Africa, Spain, Turkey, Iraq and so on out of self-defense. Highly unlikely.</p>
<p>Guguru:
Can you read? In my comments at the top of this page I clearly demonstrate the contrasting ideals of Islam and Christianity. Jesus Christ was trully the greatest advocate of peace and Muhammed is wishy-washy on peace and even advocated violence to expand HIS empire.</p>
<p>Now for some actual evidence!
There are 109 verses in the Quran that are called the "WAR verses" because they essentially advocate war against the infidels (a.k.a. the rest of us).</p>
<p>Here are just a couple of examples:</p>
<p>"Strike off their [infidel's] heads. Strike off their finger-tips! because they defied God and his Apostle [Muhammad]." (Sura 8:12-13) </p>
<p>"Make war on them [infidels] until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Sura 2:193) </p>
<p>"Seize them and put them to death wherever you find them." (Sura 4:89) </p>
<p>"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you." (Sura 9:123) </p>
<p>"When the sacred months [Ramadan] are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them; besiege them; and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent [convert to Islam] and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way." (Sura 9:5) </p>
<p>"It is true that Quran is written in a way that each person can interpret it according to his own understanding, whims, inclinations and caprices. A tolerant Muslim may be attracted to the earlier verses of Quran when Muhammad had no power and spoke good words like: "Speak good to men..." (2: 83) "To you be your religion, and to me my religion" (109: 6) and "There is no compulsion in religion"(2:256). But a bigot who has a sadistic predisposition will give emphasis to the violent verses of Quran that were revealed when the Prophet became powerful and need no more speak good to men or ask them to be tolerant to him letting him practice his religion. So his tone changed and he revealed violent verses like these: Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah (2: 193), "Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him; in the next world he shall be among the losers."(3: 85) </p>
<p>Quran is full of these contradictions and discrepancies. Each person can pick and choose what he wishes. A pious person will lead a pious life and will see the good things in Quran, while a terrorist can also find justification of his killings in that holy book.</p>
<p>During the 23 years of his prophetic life, the Prophet was catapulted from rags to riches. This dramatic change affected his mood and teachings. Once a forbearing preacher and a lonesome warner, turned into an intolerant despot. He was no more sermonizing or "speaking good to men" or being patient with what they say, and part from them courteously" (73: 10), but was howling for killing and screaming for blood. He called his followers to Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in them (9: 123). </p>
<p>Therefore it is true that each person can find in Quran something that would validate his own proclivity. This is not a miracle of Quran but its biggest flaw."</p>
<p>"During the 23 years of his prophetic life, the Prophet was catapulted from rags to riches. This dramatic change affected his mood and teachings. Once a forbearing preacher and a lonesome warner, turned into an intolerant despot. He was no more sermonizing or "speaking good to men" or being patient with what they say, and part from them courteously" (73: 10), but was howling for killing and screaming for blood. He called his followers to Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in them (9: 123). "</p>
<p>See what I mean. Muhammed used his wild claims of being a prophet to increase his economic wealth and his political power.</p>