<p>Spare us the crusade, Everkingsly. You are not likely to win any God points converting the heathens on this board. And learn to think rationally for yourself instead of just parroting the crap you read or are told as if it were fact. I'm not a Muslim, either.</p>
<p>Wow talk about a WRONG translation.
Here is some UNBIASED Koranic translation.</p>
<p>So in Sura 2. 193 its says, "And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."</p>
<p>They talk about how they should fight when they are OPPRESSED aka for defense.</p>
<p>Sura 9, 123: "[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil)."</p>
<p>They mean non believers who try to instill their OWN religions on Muslims. You don't understand that to decipher a verse's meaning you need to get the context.</p>
<p>If someone says "He cut his finger. He suked on it". You could very well say "He suked on it" but it wouldn't be in context. He could be suking on anything from a finger to what have you.</p>
<p>Listen, you think you are smart and studious. Well you should know that you should verify the information you read and not take everything to be absolutely accurate. I might be no valedictorian but I understand this simple fact. Hannity and Colmes have trouble providing accurate news on the US in the first place. I wouldnt expect them to understand the meaning of the Koran.</p>
<p>Those history classes you aced sure must be something haha.</p>
<p>BTW 4.89 is "What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him."</p>
<p>So your translation isn't EVEN CLOSE. I have never seen such an irrational mind incapable on respecting a religion. You use lies to defend your opinions. Spare us the effort and keep your bigoted, foolish, retarded opinions to yourself.</p>
<p>I have been to Catholic school and have Hassaidic friends. None, and I do mean none, had such a bigoted view on Islam. They understood that because 1billion people in the world is Muslim so there must be something there which strikes their hearts and their souls to accept the teaching of Muhammad. The websites and links you show can also be applied to Christianity. Heck I could post websites where there is studies done to show that the apostles may not even have existed. However, I do not stoop to your level and disrespect the millions of my people who believe in the teaching of Jesus
Its called RESPECT. Maybe someday you may understand this.</p>
<p>" Use your Idiotic mind for once you crazed lunatic!"</p>
<p>Ooooo, well well, getting a bit emotional/mad/crazy here aren't we? Please remember that this is a debate, no need for words like "lunatic" or "idiotic", we're all mature young adults (well, cept for you i guess).</p>
<p>"How dare you say that MURDER is less of a crime than pedophilia."</p>
<p>I said picking up a gun to defend your homeland. Theres a difference between that and murder. And molesting little children is nasty, but hey if your for it, by all means go ahead. </p>
<p>"How dare you justify terrorism as just an innocent act by a deperate person trying to reclaim his homeland."</p>
<p>I never justified it, I said they are doing what they are doing because THEY believe that they are being attacked by the west. It really is simple english, you don't hafta be in AP english to figure out what it says.</p>
<p>"It's people like you that prove that Islam actually does justify violence."</p>
<p>No, its people like me who have the guts to hit someone back if they hit me. Islam does not justify unjust violence, and neither do i. I do not support the terrorists who committed 9/11. I was sickened by that and moreso when they claimed to be fighting for Islam.</p>
<p>"Listen to yourself! I think you are the extremist."</p>
<p>No I am calm and rational, you're going crazy calling me idiotic, a lunatic, and an extremist. I am arguing your points. Calm down and don't wet your pants over this debate, its simply a debate.</p>
<p>"In addition, all the preachers of religions (rabbis, mullahs, imams, hindu priests and others) are not sinless and there are indeed many instance of Muslim clerics and Jewish rabbis that have committed pedophile acts. There was a news report on MSNBC in which a Jewish rabbi tried to have sex with a 13 year old boy and there are numerous reports of Islamic clerics that have raped women and men throughout the ME (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Lebanon and Iraq for sure)."</p>
<p>First off one account of a Jewish rabbi pales in comparison to the number of reverends. I do agree that there are many reports of clerics committing rape (not on men) and with you I concur that this is evil and sick.</p>
<p>"Can you read?"</p>
<p>Let me let you in on a little secret, I can, thats how im typing and thats how ive been responding to your comments.</p>
<p>"Jesus Christ was trully the greatest advocate of peace and Muhammed is wishy-washy on peace and even advocated violence to expand HIS empire."</p>
<p>Okay, first off, you cannot compare Jesus and Muhammed. Muhammed was a man, who did not claim to be the son of God or God himself, and after his death his followers started attacking other countries for the empire, NOT HIM! "wishy - washy on peace"? You should read up on Islam. I have sufficient knowledge of both religions, which is why i never argue that Jesus advocated peace. You do not have sufficient knowledge of both religions, which is why your comments are crazy and you cannot handle yourself.</p>
<p>"Once a forbearing preacher and a lonesome warner, turned into an intolerant despot."</p>
<p>In previous comments, Everkingly, you have mentioned that Muhammed was a rich merchant, a killer, a murderer, an assassin, a violent war mongering leader etc... With the quote above you killed your argument. Good Job Everkingly.</p>
<p>Acutally the comment about Muhammed being poor was not one that I wrote. I provided the link if you want to look into that. The discrepancies of translations are definately issues that I will look into. In all fairness, my translations might be true and your translations might be the false ones. Remember that in either case biased translators translated the Quran. Muslims would obviously tone down the violent nature in Quranic verses and Christian translators would obviously tone up the violent content. I personally do not know Arabic (nor do I want to, it sounds kind of ugly kind of like German) so those translations that I posted were from a link that I made reference to. You might want to investigate that link.</p>
<p>Don't lecture me about name-calling and the use of intellectual insults.
Throughout this thread, you have called me names and insulted my intelligence and my maturity. So follow your own advie, you hypocrite.</p>
<p>By the way, mahras2 I'll help you with spelling and I'll do it really slowly bacause I know how slow you can be. Sucked is spelled S-U-C-K-E-D not S-U-K-E-D. Please learn proper spelling and only then return to this discussion.</p>
<p>You know what guguru I was really offended by implying that I like to molest children. Not only was that rude but that is a slap in the face to all of the innocent children that have been insulted. So think of these innocent children before you talk about pedophilia in a disgraceful manner. The subject matter on this thread should be taken seriously and WE should not poke fun at pedophilia or terrorism.</p>
<p>Also, I'm frankly getting tired of being called a bigot because in all fairness I actually agree with most of the counterarguments and am simply voicing the concerns that many non-Muslims have about Islam. Calling me a bigot will only tarnish the image of all Muslims and convince people that Muslims always call those that challenge their faith bigots. So, let's refrain from such language.</p>
<p>Please clarify this comment: "I have sufficient knowledge of both religions, which is why i never argue that Jesus advocated peace. "
Do you mean to say that Jesus Christ was in fact not peace-loving? If so, I suggest you read the New Testament and I'm sure there will be no translation problems.</p>
<p>Just like guguru, I am also well-versed in the histories and theological interpretations of Islam and Christianity. I am currently writing a 25-page research paper on the serious issues that plague Islam (terrorism, womens' rights, etc.) and how these problems have always existed within the Muslim world because of textual discrepancies in the Quran and the confounding actions of Muhammed.</p>
<p>eng_dude: I am not on a crusade of any form. I am just simply voicing serious concerns about certain aspects of Islam and how they have catastrophic repercussions on the present.</p>
<p>"intellectual insults"</p>
<p>calling me idiotic is not intellectual.
I have not called you names, and the insults i made to ur maturity were due to the fact that you began name calling like a preschooler.</p>
<p>"So think of these innocent children before you talk about pedophilia in a disgraceful manner."</p>
<p>Pedophilia is disgraceful, so it should be spoken like that. Honestly, would children who have been molested think of pedophilia in a graceful manner?</p>
<p>"The subject matter on this thread should be taken seriously and WE should not poke fun at pedophilia or terrorism."</p>
<p>We should also not call each other immature names, it was not insulting to me because frankly it was really unnecessary, but still I would expect more of someone who looks at this forum.</p>
<p>"I have sufficient knowledge of both religions, which is why i never argue that Jesus advocated peace."</p>
<p>I meant that i never argued against the fact the Jesus advocated peace because i know about his teachings and i know he did advocate peace.</p>
<p>"I am currently writing a 25-page research paper on the serious issues that plague Islam."</p>
<p>That is a slap in the face to all Muslims because pre-Islamic cultural values plague the Muslim world, not Islam. These accusations are what make Muslims around the world not turn the other cheek and speak out against the people who say them.</p>
<p>"By the way, mahras2 I'll help you with spelling and I'll do it really slowly bacause I know how slow you can be. Sucked is spelled S-U-C-K-E-D not S-U-K-E-D. Please learn proper spelling and only then return to this discussion."</p>
<p>Mahras purposely spelled it that way. Seriously, don't be a grammar nazi, just argue the points that are made.</p>
<p>I'm sorry but poor spelling is a pet peeve of mine</p>
<p>Thanks for clarifying your comment. Don't try to be a smart-*** (three-letter word that starts with a and ends with ss). You know what I meant when I said that we should treat the subject matter more seriously. You only make yourself look childish and immature when you poke fun at pedophilia and terrorism.</p>
<p>I only began name-calling you after being called several names that questioned my intelligence, maturity and tolerance. I apologize for my irrational name-calling. I think I'm the only one that has ever apologized numerous times on this thread. I guess it's because I am a devout Christian and our first lesson is that of forgiveness and most of the other people on this discussion board are Muslim and forgiveness does not carry as much wait. Note: I completely agree that Islam does teach mercy and forgivenss but not to the same extent as Christianity. In Christianity, we are told to turn the other cheek. In Islam, you are told to bomb (no pun intended) back.</p>
<p>These are the conclusions of this thread:</p>
<p>1) The European media have every right to publish what ever they want even if it is offensive to a certain religion.</p>
<p>2) Protests should not be violent</p>
<p>3) Extremists currently govern the interpretations of critical Quranic passages and all religions have their fair share of extremists.</p>
<p>4) We should refrain from name-calling.</p>
<p>5) We should respect one another as individuals that are seeking to make sense of the world through religion.</p>
<p>6) We need to learn how to spell sucked.</p>
<p>Islam is a plague - I'm not on a Crusade, I don't want to convert Muslims to Christianity, and I don't respect it - why should I respect anything that destroys the mind?</p>
<p>neverborn,</p>
<p>where do you live?</p>
<p>btw, plenty in the world think christianity is a plague as well.</p>
<p>nbachris: Chicago.</p>
<p>That's nice of them to think Christianity is a plague. I don't think Christianity is a plague, I think that it, like all organized religion, is an assault on intellectualism. However, there aren't Christian terrorists massacring innocents daily.</p>
<p>:):) Peace ho! :) :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
1) The European media have every right to publish what ever they want even if it is offensive to a certain religion.</p>
<p>2) Protests should not be violent</p>
<p>3) Extremists currently govern the interpretations of critical Quranic passages and all religions have their fair share of extremists.</p>
<p>4) We should refrain from name-calling.</p>
<p>5) We should respect one another as individuals that are seeking to make sense of the world through religion.</p>
<p>6) We need to learn how to spell sucked.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You forget another:</p>
<p>7) Dont use biased sources (such as Hannity & Colmes) that blatantly lie to back up your arguements.</p>
<p>Biased Koranic translations?! those weren't even close! And I happen to have read the Koranic translation in two languages. Your comments were degrading and false enough to make this agnostic argue against you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"By the way, mahras2 I'll help you with spelling and I'll do it really slowly bacause I know how slow you can be. Sucked is spelled S-U-C-K-E-D not S-U-K-E-D. Please learn proper spelling and only then return to this discussion."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>** You wrote "bacause". ** So, everkingly I'll help you with spelling and I'll do it really slowly because I know how slow you are. Because is spelled B-E-C-A-U-S-E not B-A-C-A-U-S-E. Please learn proper spelling and only then return to this discussion. </p>
<p>You accuse me of misspelling while your accusation contains a misspelling.</p>
<p>"Muslims conquered northern Africa, Spain, Turkey, Iraq and so on out of self-defense."</p>
<p>You are talking about ARABS. Not all Arabs are Muslims.</p>
<p>Is this thread becoming a hatred thread? :rolleyes:</p>