<p>Hey all!</p>
<p>I'm a high school senior and I've been fortunate enough to have been accepted into two awesome BFA Acting Programs at Pace and Hartt. The only problem is that I am having a real hard time deciding which program is best for me. Any insight at all is appreciated!!</p>
<p>I am dealing with the same decision !</p>
<p>Have you visited both? Watched some classes? How do the financial aid offers (and costs) stack up? All things being equal, where did you feel most at home, at a gut level, when you visited?</p>
<p>I haven’t looked into the Pace program too much, but I’d recommend looking at the Hartt School Senior Showcase on youtube (I think it’s the class of 2009). That helped me make my decision, by seeing the quality of actors they produced.</p>
<p>No offense, theatreguy321, but the last way I would want my own kid to make a big decision like where to go to college is from Youtube videos. Some programs (like NYU Tisch) don’t even allow videotaping of shows or showcases. And Pace has some pretty fantastic performers there, too.</p>
<p>Not sure what negatives theatreguy is implying about YouTube videos, but my d visited Hartt about ten days ago as an accepted student to actually visit the classes. (I’ve been meaning to post on the decisions thread.) There were 4 other accepted students with her (two MT’s and two actors, I think.) She was extremely impressed with the high quality of the faculty, the classes and the students themselves. It’s a true conservatory, which is what she wants. </p>
<p>The facilities are spanking new (she doesn’t care that they are off campus). Also, Hartt has a very close relationship with two high-end local theatre companies (Hartford Stage and Goodspeed), where some students get equity points – and employment. Other plusses? It has a great reputation in the area, a real campus, school spirit (partly thanks to D-1 sports at U Hartford) and a diverse student body that has been incredibly welcoming. The only the school she saw that had these same elements (Syracuse VPA ) didn’t “show her the love”, but since Syracuse had 70 inches of snow by Thanksgiving (and more gen eds, I think), I guess she can deal with that “no” even though she adored Syracuse.</p>
<p>We visited Pace NYC last summer. The student guide we had (BFA acting senior at the time) was super-enthusiastic about the program. She adored her professors and described them as being extremely supportive vs. ‘tearing students down like they do in other places’ (her words, and I’m not sure which places she was referring to). She seemed really happy to be at Pace. </p>
<p>However, Pace is in a high-rise near the Brooklyn Bridge (in a business district that’s fairly empty at night). We felt the facilities were a bit run-down. There’s also a heavy commuter population and Pace, while solid, isn’t the strongest name in NYC. I forget the gen ed details, so I don’t know how conservatory-like the program is, but you can check out the curriculum. On the other hand, Pace seems to be an up-and-coming program, it has a tremendous alum support network, and the Actor’s Studio (albeit a grad program) is wonderful.</p>
<p>So all in all, for my d, Pace didn’t inspire her, and she didn’t audition for the program. (She’s a die-hard NY’er, btw.) </p>
<p>Just some things for you to consider and form your own opinions, decide what factors are important to you and which school is the best fit for you. You have a great choice, congratulations! PM me if you pick Hartt.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to sound negative in any way, and I’m sorry if it came off that way. I just was recommending watching the videos as a SUPPLEMENT to making a decision, to see something that has come from students who have been through their program. Of course there are many other aspects to making a decision on a school, but watching the videos can’t hurt.</p>
<p>Although I feel I’d have to disagree with you slightly NotMamaRose, because a showcase is a showcase. Whether it is allowed to be videotaped, not allowed, or whatever the case is, it is still the result of the training there. I am from Chicago, and unfortunately due to my schedule and having already missed a lot of school, was unable to visit the campus again to sit in on classes or see a production. So it was a convenient way for me to see SOMETHING from the school’s program. I think Hartt is a great program (in fact, it was really between just them and UArts for me in the end, even though I decided on UArts)</p>
<p>I don’t know if you are still looking into it, but I stumbled upon this, and if you have yet to make a decision maybe I can help. If you are really serious about acting, and want a career in the arts, going to the Hart School will limit your opportunity. Yes, the facility at Pace is pretty poor but you have to factor in the location, and the cost to even live in Manhattan let alone go to school there is immense. You aren’t going to the school for the way it looks, you’re going for the content of the program.
Pace is extremely competitive. Last year they had over 1000 applicants for the program and only 18 BFA Acting freshman this year, and the number of acceptances are decreasing this year as 1500 applicants are expected to audition. The Hart school, has maybe a few hundred people apply and their acceptances are huge. What sucks about that school, is a lot of acceptances aren’t talent based, its about who you know. I knew a couple people whom went to my performing arts high school, and they applied to Hart, got rejected, and told one of our acting teachers, who also worked there. One call and they all got acceptance letters within the week. Even a kid who missed his dance audition got an acceptance letter in the BFA Musical theater program just from a phone call. No offense, but how far is the school going to get with students that shouldn’t have been accepted.
The opportunities at Pace are incredible. Free broadway shows for performance majors, free priority tickets to inside the actors studio where performers from Robin Williams to most recently James Franco have been on to talk about their career and teaching the students of Pace how to get ahead in their careers. And not to mention the opportunity that Pace gives students to audition while they are in college, something most other college restrict students from doing. Pace is training their students to get work, and living in the greatest city on earth, with the most opportunities in the Acting world, everything is at your feet.
Hartford CT is not going to give you the opportunities like the NYC, trust me, I know. I went to school in Hartford and live in the town right next to it. If you want a career, that is not the place to go.
On the other hand, if you are looking for a conservatory, Pace is not the school for you. Neither is Yale or NYU. If you get into Pace Universities BFA Acting program, you must be pretty talented. The program there is phenomenal as well as the professors. To have Lee Strasberg’s Daughter in law be your acting teacher, (the guy known as “the father of acting”) as well as many other accomplished performers is a chance that the Hart School doesn’t have to offer. Most of the teachers i had in my acting high school teach there now, thats not saying much…
Its your choice, and up to wether you get accepted or not. Pace just bought a new building. 7 stories for the performing arts that opens next year. They are also building a new program of 82 credits, adding more arts classes and less academic classes. It is up and coming but definitely way better than the program at Hart. I really want to save you from wasting your money at that school. And if not Pace, any other school. Im just letting you know what you’re getting yourself into. Pace Vs. Hart , Pace is the better choice.</p>
<p>As a current Hartt Actor Training student (and actually a class mate of the original poster of this) I have to say the above post contains so much false information on Hartt. </p>
<p>Hartt has an impressive faculty, beautiful facilities, partnerships-in-training with Hartford Stage Company and Goodspeed Musicals, and small class sizes. Our current freshman class is a bit larger than usual but we still have small classes (the freshman actor training class has 19 students). I am just ending my first semester but I already feel like I have learned and grown so much. Watching the work the upperclassmen do is truly inspiring. </p>
<p>I once had an acting teacher tell me that no school can “make” someone a working actor. However to imply that Hartt students do not work post-grad is ridiculous (Marin Ireland anyone?). Hartt alums are working regionally, on tour, and on Broadway. The program is also relatively young having graduated it’s first class in 2000 and yet it has already gained a good ever-growing reputation. </p>
<p>Although I am not aware of the exact statistics of admissions I can tell you that the above poster is completely wrong. Hartt is competitive in admissions for both AT and MT majors. </p>
<p>If anyone else has any specific questions on the program at Hartt feel free to message me. I just wanted to clear the air from the above statement.</p>
<p>Thanks. Ally4444’s post had all the markings of someone with an axe to grind. If I had to guess Ally4444 was rejected at Hart and accepted at Pace. My favorite line in the post was how Pace is so much better because Strasberg’s daughter-in-law taught there. Now she may be a very fine teacher. I have no clue. But since I seriously doubt Strasberg’s son’s criteria for choosing a spouse was her qualifications as an acting teacher, that fact by itself doesn’t exactly prove anything.</p>
<p>I’ve worked with students who graduated and went to Pace-- students by whom I was not terribly impressed when I worked with them. I’ve seen what comes out of a Pace education, and it’s quite good, but anyone who tells you that they’re top-tier in terms of selectivity is lying through their teeth. They’re probably on par with Wagner amongst New York City schools.</p>
<p>StrangeBro - Pace is not very selective for general undergraduate admissions: as I recall, it has a 75-80% acceptance rate (you can consult other parts of CC to check); its Acting BFA program is highly selective, however. This thread originally compared Hartt with Pace, and I think that they’re very difficult to compare. Someone who wants a conservatory experience will probably be happier at Hartt, where the Theater School is part of a renowned Music School. Hartt’s theater program is located in a commercial neighborhood, some distance from the main campus (which is in a more attractive section of West Hartford). Pace is in NYC. We sensed that Pace is relentlessly focused on career training for all undergraduates, and that there isn’t much interest in artistic or intellectual development. That might not be true for every class, but it’s the overall culture. Students have great internship opportunities, and, of course, can attempt to work locally while there. This thread is obsolete, now, because the OP must have decided months ago.</p>
<p>I don’t think this thread is obsolete, because in a few months the HS class of '12 will be making their own decisions among acceptances. Anything that gives them opportunities to think about what is important to them is helpful.</p>
<p>I feel the need to say emphatically that ALL AUDITIONED BFAS ARE HIGHLY SELECTIVE. Yes, a certain group are supremely selective - at an Ivy level, below 10% - but even the “less selective” group, which changes every year depending on many factors, but typically here has included Pace, Hartt, UArts, Adelphi, Wagner, and others, is BELOW 20%. </p>
<p>This puts getting into any of these schools equal to acceptance at the top 20-50 colleges and universities academically. It also means that many, many qualified and talented people will not be accepted simply because there is no room, and that the schools will make difficult and often mysterious choices in picking out their classes from the crowd.</p>
<p>I would never want anyone on these threads to imply that an auditioned BFA was “easy” to get into, or that going there implies that the student was not a competitive candidate. Nor would I want the schools derided for being “not that selective.” What happens later - well, that depends entirely on fit, on the student, on particulars of the experience that none of us can judge for one another.</p>
<p>I am sorry to sound harsh, but I feel very strongly about this.</p>
<p>NotMamaRose’s post in #3 was the best advice, as students choose among any of their options. I would add, have you looked closely at the curriculum, and does a projected 4-year course plan, plus performing opportunities, look appealing?</p>
<p>I thought I’d made it clear that Pace’s B.F.A. program was highly selective. They require that a student first get accepted into the university before scheduling an audition. The university itself is not as selective. This is similar to Roosevelt/CCPA, where we were told that just about anyone considering the Conservatory would be admitted to Roosevelt; CCPA admits about 50 (25 Musical Theater, 25 Acting) out of 1000+ who audition. Montclair State and Brooklyn College are other examples of highly competitive BFA programs in colleges that are not as selective for overall admissions, where students need to get accepted into the college first. The numbers are scary at first, but most students will get in somewhere. Many of the schools accept several times the number of students that actually matriculate, so the admissions stats aren’t quite as bad as indicated (ie. the class of 25 is actually culled from about 100 students who are offered a place initially, or off of waiting lists). The numbers are probably a little more forgiving for boys than for girls, and for dramatic actors, as opposed to aspiring musical theater majors, which is why I might sound unrealistically optimistic. I’m not sure it’s wise to encourage students to apply to too many schools, either. I’ve read posts from students who have scheduled more than 4 auditions a day during Unifieds, when some of the schools have indicated that they will require applicants to allow at least a half day for auditions and call-backs. I can’t imagine that it helps a student’s chances to be arriving late or leaving early. I fear that there are “diminishing returns” at some point, when some of these highly-selective programs might be likelier to reject kids who haven’t demonstrated any specific interest.</p>
<p>stagemum - Absolutely! Very well put. I completely agree with you and was responding to earlier comments about “easy” schools to get into. </p>
<p>My D applied to many schools - 13 total, but only auditioned for 6. We thought that both the auditioned and non-auditioned groups had a good balance of more selective vs. less selective (although to repeat - only non-auditioned programs can be considered true safeties, or even “likelies”). </p>
<p>You make an excellent point about Montclair State. My D applied there, very impressed with their theatre program. We could count on a slam-dunk with the academic acceptance, but she assumed nothing where the audition was concerned. We thought maybe, though, it was on the “slightly” higher acceptance rate end of the spectrum - but we were very wrong once we got a better understanding of their theatre admissions stats. No school can be assumed to be “lesser known” in this process. She never made any assumptions of hugely better chances at Montclair State, but it wasn’t until far into the process that we realized their numbers are probably closer to 10% than 20%.</p>
<p>I think schools that go to Unifieds are all becoming more selective if for no other reason that by being there they boost their applicant numbers into 4 digits. I agree that if a student is doing a huge blur of auditions it might be harder to make each school “feel the love,” but I don’t know any real solution to this. Just look carefully at what you want, make a reasonable list and do your best.</p>
<p>At Pace we were told that in the BFA programs they closely monitor the amount of students they accept. In BFA AT and MT they say they contact their top choices to find out where Pace ranks in their school of choice. This keeps them from having to make 100 offers. While I could not get a solid number out of them I was left with the impression that pace makes as few as 40 offers.</p>
<p>I never auditioned to Hartt, I just don’t want anyone to make that mistake, seeing a know a couple people who dropped out of my MT program this year after one semester. Everyone fits into a different school, I didn’t mean to offend anyone really. I’m sure Hartt has many qualities but from my view, it wasn’t worth it.</p>
<p>Hey everyone, its me prickettc, the original question poster.</p>
<p>Shortly after posting this, I visited and sat in on classes at both Pace and Hartt. Pace was first. One particular class i visited, there were only 75% of the kids there on time, the rest came late. Not to mention the fact that two groups of scene partners didn’t have their material memorized when they were supposed to. Some of the work was very enjoyable though. Interestingly enough, the current director of the program (at the time last year) taught the class. I found him extremely insightful and knowledgeable about the craft, and was very happy to meet him. However, at the end of the class, he announced that he would be stepping down as dean/director, and having some other younger gentleman coming to take his place. Not only was this a huge buzzkill for me, but I found the change of positions as a negative aspect of entering there as a freshman. Also, I was slightly uncomfortable with Pace’s credo to audition/make your career as early as freshman year. It everything felt sort of rushed over there. The last aspect of their program that I raised my eyebrows at was the study abroad program. There wasn’t one. At least there wasn’t one for the theater students. This, in comparison Hartt’s Shakespeare intensive program in England (which is included in tuition) did not sit well with me. This is all afterthoughts I’m having, but I left NYC with an open mind.
Hartt had a completely different vibe. It had the college campus feel, and nicer facilities in my opinion, which aesthetically appealed to me before any classes or performances I saw. The classes I sat in on were all different, I got to see several different permanent faculty teach and direct. And everyone was so much friendlier there–certainly more calm and collected than most of the people I talked to at Pace. The best part about that was their work was just as resonant and impressive, if not more, than the Pace students. In Hartt, I saw a better, more closed off learning environment, that stressed the craft more than the career at such an early stage. They want us to earn our keep on their stage, they want us to appreciate the opportunity to perform when they let us have it our sophomore year. I am happy to say, that as a current freshman Hartt student, I still feel this way, and have found that Hartt was a much better fit for me than Pace.</p>
<p>I’d be happy to answer any questions about my experience at either establishment! Thank you for all the lively feedback.</p>
<p>Hi prickettc! Thank you for this, it could not come at a better time as D is very seriously considering Hartt. I PM’ed you. You might want to post on the Freshman Experience thread too, as at this time of year people are making all kinds of decisions and the information about classes and atmosphere is so important!</p>