<p>I agree with Cicero_Oratore, but with considerable bias since I never had the chance*to have an interview due to the overwhelming number of applications in my region. It kind of irks me since I submitted my application earlier than others at my school who got straight rejected but still had interviews (everyone at my school got rejected by the ivies). Even now I can’t get an interview, even though it is by far the strongest part of my app and on my college visit the admissions officer stressed it as an important part of the process.</p>
<p>Btw I matriculated at Columbia SEAS :)</p>
<p>cicero, when I said unstandardized, I meant that the interviews are largely left up to the discretion of the alum while the essays are read by “trained” adcoms. But yeah, there is a lot of personality and interest bias in the essays as well (I will be the first to admit my essays were not strong because I can’t write in an interesting way in such little space or narrow topic). But I agree with the selective interview process; reduces the burden on alumni (Columbia couldn’t even schedule me in) and allows the more qualified to assert themselves.</p>
<p>This is the best way to vent, for sure. We need to stick together. Traditional admissions do not work. Period. The system needs renovating. But that’s a waitlisted applicant speaking to others, so it’s a pretty biased crowd.</p>
<p>@cicero_oratore, "All I want is more balance in the system. "</p>
<p>Wow, you have a very interesting definition of “balance”, … how do you handle difference in incomes and available resources in your world?</p>
<p>@cicero: I completely agree with you on balancing the system and have spent hours brainstorming how that would be achieved. In the end, all I could come up with is that it would require significant nation wide reform and standardization, as the colleges would need to have some way of looking at a students transcript in comparison to what their school offers (i.e. if a person only took 4 AP classes but his/her school only offered 5, it wouldn’t be fair to look at someone who took 5 ap classes at a school that offers 15 more favorably) As for interviews, I feel that it would be really easy to standardize them if the school just hired/trained specific admissions officers to conduct all of them. Still room for bias with personalities etc., however, aren’t colleges consistently saying they are trying not to view applicants merely as files and that they look for personality in the student’s extracurriculars/essays?</p>
<p>Just to ask a general opinion, do you think it helped that in my update letter I mentioned that I have the record for most AP classes ever taken at my school? Or do you think it just came off as grasping at straws?</p>
<p>I think it is interesting that we have moved into venting about the entire system. Although I am sure we could have very interesting discussions about affirmative action and socioeconomic status’ affect on admissions, perhaps we should bond together more over the fact that we are all on the waitlist. Feel free to ignore that idea, but I think the more we stay away from the most divisive issues, the better we can support each-other as the decisions come in. Again, that is just my opinion. Looking forward to tomorrow!</p>
<p>-Optimism!</p>
<p>@gcall, I didn’t mention that although it is true for me as well (though tied with 10 or so other people this year) but that kind of seems like grasping at straws.</p>
<p>plumazul: have you ever heard the phrase “justice is blind”? I want a system that truly rewards academic merit, considering that colleges are first and foremost an academic institution. Your ability to do math like its nobody’s business is not determined by factors that are out of your control (such as income level, geographic location, race, legacy status). Therefore, colleges should not be bullied into trying to “engineer” a “balanced” class that is “balanced” on non-academic factors that are completely out of the applicant’s control. Yes, there are places where resources are scarce, but lets face it, there is a college for everyone. If you didn’t have the resources to be educated enough to be able to go to a top tier school, then you shouldn’t be getting in solely on non-academic qualities. And let’s face it, there are very few parts of the US where people are reading under candle light, don’t have electricity, and don’t have access to a computer with the internet…where you can order books on the cheap from India (that’s what I do) or look up whatever you want and supplement your poor resources with the unlimited resources of the internet.</p>
<p>Okay I just posted the above post and three new posts appeared before mine…so yes I agree with qizixite that we probably should avoid divisive issues about good ole AA. There are enough argument threads about that already and it’d be best to not turn this into one of them…</p>
<p>@gcall1090 I think that was a good idea. I was actually kicking myself the other day for not mentioning that myself. It shows that you took the initiative to challenge yourself more than anyone else in your academic environment.</p>
<p>While I agree with qizixite and think we should move past these arguments, I just want to say that I think the only sort of non-academic/EC factor should be income, because that can affect your application (time committments, extra classes, books, teachers… all these CAN affect your abilities), though this should only be a factor in the more extreme circumstances.</p>
<p>@gunther: Yeah, it struck me as such (especially since I only hold the record by only 1 AP, if by myself. But I figured I am likely to hold it for several years–I dropped my language after tenth grade, and as my school’s scheduling/requirements works now, it is impossible to do more than tie me, and none of the rising seniors are even close, so I figured I can claim the record lol) To be honest, I wasn’t happy with how most of my letter came out, for instance I tried underlining how much I fell in love with Harvard during my summer by talking about how I got lost in Widener, but after I sent it I realized that that anecdote just makes me sound like a baffled idiot (not entirely untrue, but regardless…) I dont know though, as much as I was worried about appearing to be grasping at straws…we’re on the wait list. We pretty much only have straws left lol.</p>
<p>These arguments about AA are not worthwhile. But it is kind of unfair that I am stuck in my nationality, skin tone, and state origin that negatively impact my chances of getting in to college. I understand the goal of having a diverse community but at a certain point, it’s too much.</p>
<p>cicero, are you sure you want to go to Harvard? It doesn’t seem to be your fit. I suggest maybe a school in the deep south … or maybe Arizona …</p>
<p>@gcall, My school has scheduling limits where there just literally is no time. I don’t have a lunch period as it is. And my goal of taking 6 APs this year utterly failed (I tried to do AP Euro, AP Lit, AP Bio, AP Psych, AP Latin IV, and AP Calc AB). Psych just couldn’t fit in though. Plus, technically, one of my friends has moved onto linear algebra by now after finishing calc a while back, so that’s more intensive.</p>
<p>@plumazul: Do not make the logical fallacy that if one is against affirmative action that one is racist/sexist/homophobic and would be a supporter of the Confederacy if we lived in 1860. I am merely meritocratic; I want academic factors to be what determines whether or not you get into a school. Now if the situation were reversed and I were only letting in upper class white folk from the northeast you would surely be screaming racism and want that to be changed. We have that situation in reverse right now.</p>
<p>Now, I can see where people are coming from with income, and I must agree on that. If you don’t have the money to do things you can’t go out and buy textbooks or computers or whatnot to further your education. A low income can also limit preparation for tests and competitions.</p>
<p>EDIT: For the record I didn’t resurrect this topic and I stated in an earlier post that I would like agree to drop the AA thing as well. So now I am dropping it. Please drop it as well plumazul.</p>
<p>Ok, I was trying to stay out of AA argument, but I just want to state my position and I will leave it at that:</p>
<p>Affirmative action was an unfortunate necessity that developed in order to break institutions of pre-existing bias. However, I feel that it has over-served its purpose, and rather than being aimed at avoiding bias it has almost constructed a state of reverse racism. For instance, one kid I know got into several ivies, including Columbia which rejected me. But the only thing he had over me was his race: SAT scores were 300 points lower, 5 places lower in school rank, no leadership positions, and–not to be mean–but if you talked to him for five minutes he comes off as very uninformed. For instance, he had no idea what AA was before one of our mutual friends explained it to him. That is AA overtaking its original intent. Heck, in its own decision in the Bakke case the Supreme Court said that it hoped its decision would be overturned in a decade or two. All of that said, I do recognize unbalance in the area they come from. While cicero made a good point about the internet, is it really fair to expect that child to have to put in extra work to scrounge for resources that are handed to others on a silver platter? Simply put: there is no clear solution. I am not a fan of affirmative action holding as much power as it does, but it does serve some purpose.</p>
<p>@plumazul: Try to remain civil please. You are definitely over-reacting, and rather than matching his points calmly are resorting to unnecessary and sophomoric insinuations. And for the record, despite my position on affirmative action, I am a strong democrat. However, Martin Luther King himself said “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” A.A. is not fitting within that dream, it’s just that this time around the color of their skin is positive–just as it was for whites at the time he gave that speech. So you tell me who is backwards in their thinking.</p>
<p>EDIT: And now that I said my piece on that, I am going to drop it. I just know that if I had walked away without saying anything I’d wind up thinking about it instead of sleeping haha</p>
<p>@plumazul, there is nothing wrong with the south, or Arizona. Keep your ethnic biases out of this argument please. The south is conservative, yes, but it is not a hateful group, contrary to popular belief. In fact, every conservative I know (and I’m from TX, so I know my fair share) is a very moral, compassionate person, and does not agree with racism or sexism. Get your centuries correct, please. We don’t live in the nineteenth century anymore.</p>
<p>@cicero,</p>
<p>So you want only academic factors … well the problem with that is … so far I know of NO unbiased metric on which to base decisions. Do you? The College Board says the single greatest correlated factor to high SAT scores is family INCOME. Is THAT what you want? So in your world $ is merit? </p>
<p>“Now if the situation were reversed and I were only letting in upper class white folk from the northeast you would surely be screaming racism and want that to be changed.”</p>
<p>Wow, this is NOT a rational statement. What are you talking about? What “situation” does this statement describe the “reverse” of? </p>
<p>“We have that situation in reverse right now.”</p>
<p>REALLY? I don’t assume anyone who is against AA is “racist/sexist/homophobic” etc. … I might make such an assumption based on statements such as the above …</p>
<p>Has Harvard started taking people off the waitlist yet?</p>
<p>Anyone from CC hear back yet?</p>
<p>I will assume that everyone has been given a chance to say what they want, so I hope that this post will signify the end of the affirmative action discussion on this thread. There are pages upon pages of debate on this site and everyone should feel free to respond to those. But please allow this to be the “Harvard Waitlist Waiting Room 2014” thread instead of the “Using affirmative action as a way to channel stress” thread. I have a lot of respect for all of you and hope that we can get through this process in some other way;</p>
<p>-Optimism!</p>