The least expensive MT-BFA in the U.S.?

<p>The esteemed EmsDad had a post in the Texas State thread about that being, “One of, if not THE, cheapest MT BFA program(s) in the country.”
In light of all the financial-aid talk and parents trying to navigate the costs of BoCo, NYU, CMU, I thought this might be fun – some schools can still deliver this degree for a lot less.
Texas State may in fact be the least expensive for those not living in Texas as they are generous in giving OOS students resident tuition.
I am still bewildered why states who claim to care about growth and economic development make it nearly impossible for talented students to relocate and live in a place where they want to pursue an education – often bringing family members for visits who stay in hotels, buy gas, eat in restaurants, purchase tons of clothes and dorm stuff. Nevertheless, in some states it is nearly impossible to get resident tuition – so I am not suggesting this is an option. But using the collegeresults.org site – I actually did find a few other programs where in-state tuition, fees and housing are less than Texas State.</p>

<p>These are the costs with resident tuition for an on-campus student for an entire academic year (not just one semester). Here are the Fab Five:
- University of Wisconsin – Stevens Point, $14,030
- Wichita State - $14,475
- University of South Dakota - $15,747
- University of Central Oklahoma - $16,491
- Texas State - $17,196</p>

<p>Sam Houston State - $14,262</p>

<p>Great idea for a thread. My impression is that most (and maybe all) of the OOS MT students at Texas State get to pay in-state rates, which makes it real bargain. Extremely competitive for admission.</p>

<p>Okay…in-state tuition/fees and housing at Ball State are $16308 this year…but in-state status is for those with established residences in Indiana or a very few select Ohio counties.</p>

<p>Although I agree that pricetag or name alone does not define quality of program, and that all students, regardless of major, need a financial safety on their list (a school you can afford that you would be happy to attend), I do not believe that, with the selectivity of these programs, you can set your sights on programs based only on costs.</p>

<p>East Carolina - $13,537
Get accepted into Honors college and get tuition waiver and only pay room and board - $8,220</p>

<p>So the real question is whether the smaller cost for such a program is an effective investment, in terms of the training and job opportunities that are associated with a program. What if one of the lower cost programs never places graduates into the field? Then the lower cost didn’t really buy you much. On the other hand, there was a post earlier this week in another thread about the Boston Conservatory, and that the actual out of pocket costs after scholarships, etc could be as high as 50k a year. I can’t see that being a sound investment for any undergraduate degree.</p>

<p>My daughter is going to visit a school in our home state that, with her grades and test scores, could cost us practically nothing out of pocket. But we will be looking to see what her opportunites would be after obtaining her degree, if she is lucky enough to land a spot in the program (which two of the seniors from her school did this year, so we’re hopeful).</p>

<p>Western Carolina $13,977
Florida State $17,451</p>

<p>OOS costs at these schools (R&B was calculated using the differential between Total In-State Cost and In-State Tuition from collegeresults.com):</p>

<p>School / Tuition / R&B / Total
University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point / $13,769 / $7,573 / $21,603
University of Central Oklahoma / $10,652 / $6,429 / $22,920
Western Carolina / $13,977 / $9,841 / $23,818
Wichita State / $14,475 / $9,417 / $23,892
Texas State / $12,520 / $6,744 / $23,940
East Carolina / $15,636 / $11,230 / $24,767
Sam Houston State / $14,340 / $8,430 / $24,892
University of South Dakota / $15,747 / $9,919 /$25,666
Florida State / $18,432 / $14,445 / $31,896</p>

<p>(Note: the number for in-state cost at Sam Houston is $16,432, not $14,262 as listed in Post #2)</p>

<p>@jeffandann - you are no doubt aware that the correlation between the cost of a school and its results are highly debatable (there are many articles and publications on this topic - for some real fun read the ones on higher education as Veblen goods). </p>

<p>Certainly some schools graduate more working actors on Broadway than others, and certainly some schools offer better traiing than others. But one of the fundamental questions is, “does the school make the student or do the students make the school?” (i.e, “if the same students went to State U as Boco would they be any LESS successful later in life?” or, conversely, “if the same students went to Boco as State U would they be MORE successful in life?”). If being successful as an actor takes guts, determination, and perseverance, then wouldn’t a highly-motivated student derive a lot of value from almost any program?</p>

<p>Looking at it from an incremental value perspective, i.e., would the same highly-motivated student derive $30,000 per year of incremental value from Boco as State U is a really interesting question to ponder.</p>

<p>EmsDad, I do agree that one reason grads from some top programs may be successful in this field is that the students who attend those programs in the first place went through a highly selective process to be admitted and so it may be apples to oranges to compare those graduates to those at a school that is much less selective in the first place. </p>

<p>Cost is surely a consideration for most families. Remember, however, that the ticket price is not the final price at a school. Thus a school that may cost $45,000 but awards a $20,000 scholarship brings the price down to $25,000. So, students may wish to apply to more expensive schools and see what aid and scholarships they may receive. My daughter went to a very expensive college, though received a substantial scholarship. Families who are really needing to be careful about the costs, are often families who may qualify for aid too.</p>

<p>Every family also must weigh the costs based on their own finances but also their own value system. We did not have our children pick colleges by cost at all. We are a middle class family and my kids qualified for need based aid in fact. We let them pick the best fit schools. My older kid could have had a free ride to our state flagship (free ride to all valedictorians in the state) but that school did not fit any of her selection criteria. I realize in some families, the students take out loans and so that is a factor and a kid should not accrue lots of debt. In our family, we, as parents, are assuming all the costs and debts, as this is the gift we feel as parents, needs to be provided to our children. We can’t afford it out of pocket but have assumed the costs and debts ourselves, including for graduate school. Our kids know they must support themselves when not in school (I realize some parents continue to support young adult children after college, but we do not).</p>

<p>PS, I am not saying that other families should take on our value system when it comes to choosing colleges and putting cost aside. Some may think we are nuts. Yes, D1 could have had a free ride at UVM but went to Brown. The first time she went to grad school, she got into a number of top programs in her field, many with substantial scholarships and we allowed her to pick MIT, the only school that offered no scholarship, turning down schools like Columbia and Cornell, for example. However, in her second year at MIT, she was awarded a half tuition scholarship and so things change! Now, she is in a second round of grad school started this year and we let her pick Berkeley due to best fit, yet she was awarded four times the amt. of scholarship to Stanford. We are believers in best fit, particularly as we feel our kids worked hard to earn that and have taken full advantage of their college educations. But even this has changed because now D was selected as a TA at Berkeley and has had a reduction in tuition. And for next year, she may have an even bigger reduction if she gets a fellowship or obtains in-state status (which grad students can do, not undergrads) and so in the end, it is not costing as much as originally thought, just like at MIT. In fact, when she selected Brown for undergrad, the price went down by a lot starting in her second year when D2 entered NYU and so need based aid improves when you have two kids in college at the same time. So, in all these instances, the schools did not only not cost the price tag, but the costs went down over the years. Just one story.</p>

<p>I think that it pays to do some bargain-hunting. Large scholarship awards are always possible, but not always likely.</p>

<p>Ah yes, EmsDad, I am well aware of the debate over quality of program vs. cost. Thankfully my daughter is I believe very motivated, but I would still argue that for any degree, walking out of undergraduate school $200 k in debt is kind of crazy.</p>

<p>@jeffandann - totally agree with you. Taking on a large amount of debt in an industry with employment data like that published by Actors Equity doesn’t seem to be a very good idea to me:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/about/AEA_Annual_2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/about/AEA_Annual_2009.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>No doubt there is some field of work with worse individual employment statistics, but I haven’t found it.</p>

<p>Central Washington University (auditioned BFA MT):
In state T+R/B= $16,050.
Member of Western Undergraduate Exchange for OOS students from the west.</p>

<p>Northern Colorado:</p>

<p>$18,475 In State
$14,499 + $9,048 = $27,523 OOS</p>

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<p>D knows several kids at Northwestern getting nearly full rides (based on financial need), so even the most expensive schools can be the cheapest for some students.</p>

<p>Sobering data from the Equity association, EmsDad. But what can you do? I know a lot of MBA’s out on the streets right now as well. I asked my daughter point blank: what else would you do if you didn’t do performing arts? And she honestly can’t think of anything else that she’s interested in. So all we can do is hope she gets a spot that’s affordable and go from there.</p>

<p>… and/or try for a school where one can earn a double major in 4 years so the day job is profitable?</p>

<p>When talking about debt, I think it matters to bring up who is paying the debt. If the student is paying the debt, that is a different story and must involve caution. But if a parent is paying the college debts (which is our case), it doesn’t matter so much what field the student is pursuing. I don’t judge the cost of education based on the salary my kid may make in her career. I paid for the education so she could become educated. That was worth it to me. </p>

<p>By the way, while my kid does not make a lot of money, she has supported herself in NYC since graduation day (she was just 20 years old at the time in fact) entirely in the performing arts field. </p>

<p>Also, when people talk of $200,000 debt, it seems a little odd of a scenario to me. First, many families either saved a little bit (or a lot) toward college, OR can pay something each year out of pocket, so that borrowing $200,000 is unlikely and in fact, if the student receives no grant/scholarship aid based on need, then such a family who doesn’t qualify for need based aid, should have SOME money to devote toward college expenses. If they have none, then they should receive a decent aid package that includes some grant money, not just loans.</p>

<p>I cross posted with MomCares, but I am one who doesn’t think it is necessary to have a double major (though support those who have such interests). My kid did not double major. She has a varied skill set and so doesn’t make ALL her money through performing (though does that too), but all her “survival” jobs are also in theater and music.</p>