The Merits of Studying at UK

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>I'm an international student who came to the States just 2 years ago. My overall GPA up to sophomore year is a 3.2, which is low because the freshman grades I got from my country were based on a completely different standard. Right now, I'm a junior taking the most demanding courses available (5 APs) and plan to take equally demanding curriculum next year. I've taken 1 SATII (Math II-800) and got over 2100 on SATI, which I plan to take again this summer to get a higher score. I speak Korean and Japanese, and I'm learning Chinese now.</p>

<p>Just 20 minutes ago, I've become really interested in UK schools. Based on the rough background above, would it be realistic for me to apply to schools like Oxbridge? I've read some posts below and somebody mentioned that admission is based on not so much on GPA but rather on the interview; can someone confirm this? And most importantly, why should I even think about applying to UK schools? My parents think I'm crazy; my mom thinks British people discriminate Asians.</p>

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<p>If you want to apply to Oxbridge you need to get your SAT score over 2200. That still might not be enough though. You can still get into other great unis like UCL, Warwick and Bristol. </p>

<p>The advantages of studying in the UK are:</p>

<p>Costs- Tuition fees at most unis are around $20000
You usually finish your undergrad in 3 years.</p>

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<p>theres quite abit of information in these 6 pages of threads</p>

<p>just go look around....kinda lazy to recap</p>

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<p>UK universities are very expensive if ur non-British...
For the good universities, art courses cost about 12000-13000 pounds and Engineering or science courses cost above 16000 pounds. Plus the strong currency means your daily spending must be higher than in US. What is worse, they normally don't offer scholarship to undergrads.
For example, a typical bill for an international at Imperial College London is
17350 pounds for tuition (science or engineering)
4500 pounds at least for accomodation (40 week)
4000 pounds for everything else
Other cities might be cheaper.
(1 pound = 2 dollars)</p>

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<p>
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I've read some posts below and somebody mentioned that admission is based on not so much on GPA but rather on the interview; can someone confirm this?

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GPA is considered meaningless and is usually completely disregarded. But you won't have an interview anywhere other than Oxford/Cambridge (and you can only apply to one or the other, not both) unless you apply to an extremely competitive subject such as medicine. Usually "offers" of a place are based on APs, sometimes SATIIs. You have to apply for a specific subject and it's difficult to change. Subjects unrelated to the one you're applying for don't count. e.g. if you apply to study Biology, no amount of Korean is going to help you. UK schools also have web-sites that will provide you with this information. They always end in .ac.uk</p>

<p>UCAS</a> Home Page
this is the central admissions service. </p>

<p>
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My parents think I'm crazy;

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well you did say you only decided on this course of action 20 mins ago.....</p>

<p>
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my mom thinks British people discriminate Asians.

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The largest ethnic minority group in Britain are Asians (mostly from India). There is no such thing as affirmative action and no requirement for diversity, so you won't have any less chance of getting for being Asian.</p>

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<p>I don't think he is talking about universities. He is talking about the general British folk being racist.</p>

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<p>^ Correct. But I find it helpful that ethnicity does not affect one's admission. Are students from Britain also unable apply to both oxbridge or is that just for internationals? (I find it surprising) My friend told me that $1=4pounds; for a moment I decided not to apply to UK. But now I'm not sure. So they look at SATI, SATII, APs, and interview mostly? That's hard to believe cauze it's so unlike American colleges.</p>

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<p>there is a lot of misinformation around esp from those not even considering UK unis....now let the UK aspirant tell you more</p>

<p>Cost</p>

<p>My calculations are based upon official data from the UK unis (they will send you an estimated breakdown of costs for each of the 3 years and require you to provide financial guarantees) and from friends currently studying there or have graduated. Both are almost the same.</p>

<p>Tuition Costs - £ 12,000
Living expenses (inclusive of lodging, food, basic necessities) - £ 7,000 to 9,000
Total Costs - £ 19,000 to 21,000 per annum</p>

<p>These are the total costs for an arts subject i.e. law, econs, history (for science add about £2000 per annum) for international students at the MOST expensive UK unis i.e. Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial. That translates into roughly US$120,000 for the 3 years required to obtain a UK degree. Now compare it to UC Berkeley's US$180,000 for 4 years as non-residents, or Stanford's US$200,000. </p>

<p>Education</p>

<p>Even though I am avid fan of the american liberal arts education, I have to admit that a UK undergrad education is generally more specialised/focuses strictly on your major. The fact that medicine and law can both be pursued at the undergrad level is an additional plus. I dont see how the average american lawyer is more adept at his job than a british lawyer despite spending more years in school. Besides, many of the 1st year courses in US colleges are actually redundant for a student doing the A-levels. I have friends who have been granted credit exemptions at MIT, UPenn, Columbia etc. for their A-level work. Not to mention many UK Unis are extremely reputable in their own right.</p>

<p>Admissions</p>

<p>The good thing is that AA policies are prohibited by law in the UK, hence theres no quota whatsoever. Besides, in recent years UK unis are increasing their intake of fee-paying internationals to compensate for their local student's fees which are kept at an artificially low rate by the govt. And, they dont require you to be gold medalist sportsman or an utterly altruistic dude who spends like 20 hours a week on community service. Sure these ECs are a plus, but the main thing they look for is still the academics. </p>

<p>Besides its very easy to apply. Go to UCAS</a> Home Page, fill up one form, one personal statement, and click your choice of schools (you have up to 6 choices), and pay the £30. Period. They will automatically send a copy to each school you applied for, and did I mention each application is considered separately by the different schools i.e. School A has no idea that you have applied to School B and/or School C. It is very common for a good student to get accepted by all his choices.</p>

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<p>^ thank you so much. By the way, what if you don't know what you want to major? Is that a huge problem?</p>

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<p>Ignore the last question; are internationals also required to take tests like Thinking Skills Assessment test and Law Test? How do we even prepare for them? And by different schools, do you mean different departments in a school?</p>

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<p>well not knowing what you want to major in is a huge problem in the UK system...you have to specify a major when u apply for UK unis, which you'll be focusing strictly on, and changing it once u've started can be quite difficult</p>

<p>that said, there are numerous joint degree programs that mix a little of each discipline into a single field of study i.e. PPE - philosophy, politics and economics or Land Economy - Geography, Econs, Land Law etc. so rest assured you'll have plenty of options to choose from....the advantage of UK unis is that you'll be more than adequately prepared for your chosen field since you focus all 3 years on it, compared to say in the US, if you decide to do focus on maths in the first 2 years than swap to literature in the next 2, you gonna find your time in the first 2 pretty wasted, not to mention u'll have alot of catching up to do...and you wont have to scratch your head over what modules to take if you want them to be pertinent to your major, its pre-planned in the curriculum for you in the UK</p>

<p>Standardised admission tests like the LNAT for law, Thinking Skills Assessment for PPE are compulsory for ALL applicants to those universities participating. There are some websites that provide prep materials, or you can check out prep books in bookstores or amazon.uk. Generally, they dont require you to have any particular knowledge except a high standard of literacy, numeracy and reasoning skills. </p>

<p>Sorry by different schools i mean different universities in my post above</p>

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<p>TSA was quite an interesting test to take.. I really liked it. It tests ur problem solving skill. The only difficulty is that time is limited.. TSA, SAT。。。。</p>

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<p>lOngbOWmeN，u won't be able to live with 21000 pounds a year in London unis. Even in first year, where uni provide cheap residential halls, a science students pay 5000 for accomodation and 17000 for tuition. And u hav to add up ur living spense. I normaly spend 5000+ pounds more a year in london for food and everything else.
In 2nd and 3rd year, you play 6000+ for accomodation cos ur paying whole year rent for private renting</p>

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<p>plus the weak dollar... especially for Chinese, ex change rate dropped 15% in just 2 years and this will surely continue</p>

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<p>Yeah, I heard it's hard living in UK; my friend told me that a can of coke costs like $2. As for choosing a major, I'm very interested in PPE. Does anyone know what the program is like, e.g. its rigor and how to prepare for it. I'm turned down by the fact that I don't have a high GPA. Is it ridiculous for me to apply to a place like Oxford?</p>

<p>Also, for people who apply to Oxford, do they normally apply to more than one major? And what's with the residential housing system and its importance? Are same majors grouped together and form a residential house?</p>

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<p>federerexpress: "lOngbOWmeN， u won't be able to live with 21000 pounds a year in London unis. Even in first year, where uni provide cheap residential halls, a science students pay 5000 for accomodation and 17000 for tuition."</p>

<p>^ I think longbowmen was referring to the arts and humanities courses when he said tuition is 12000 pounds. Science courses are definitely more expensive. </p>

<p>badassmonkey, maybe you should be checking out the oxford website yourself. the collegiate system isn't just "residential housing". It's a very unique system. You apply directly to a college and colleges have more than 1 major (in fact most of them offer almost all majors). You have tutorials at your college but lectures at the university. That probably sounds a lil confusing right now but i can't quite explain in just 1 paragraph. So i hope you've been visiting their website. </p>

<p>Oxbridge and the more selective universities tend to emphasize the need for passion for or at least genuine interest in the subject you're applying for. And all the universities see the same personal statement you submitted through ucas. So it normally isn't advisable to apply to 2 very different courses at the same time, eg. chem engineering at imperial and economics at lse.</p>

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<p>^excellent last point by yipeng....passion is one of the key criteria, which means you have to put it across in the personal statement....and u're only allowed to send the same personal statement to all your choices, its pretty hard to try to apply for 2 different courses (related fields are possible if you can somehow make your personal statement a little more generic, like medicine and biology</p>

<p>colleges at oxford are essentially "mini-oxfords"....each of them has their own tutors in each subject, own library, own classroom, own clubs, own lodging....its sth like a big farm divided into small farms, each tended by its own farmer but still growing the same crops (not very efficient, but thats the tradition)....so all the law tutors at each college together forms oxford's law faculty/department, which is more of an administrative organ....same for cambridge</p>

<p>as for the tuition fees, its 12k/year for arts and 17k/year for science generally, 7-9k for living expenses inclusive of lodging</p>

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<p>£1=$2-$2.05 right now. So not that bad, but still bad. </p>

<p>The link below gives estimated costs for Cambridge. Basically Tuition fees £9,000 for arts or £12,000 for sciences (more for medicine). Living costs £6-7,000 and colleges fee (oxbridge only) £3-4,000. Bear in mind that if you have to 'live out' in private rented accommodation (which no-one does in Cambridge, but you do have to in your second year at Oxford and nearly everywhere else. Most places only give you one year of college owned accommmodation). In this case you have to pay rent for the whole year, rather than just three 8-week terms in the case of Oxbridge, and it will cost a LOT. Costs in London will be significantly more than those given above. Costs in the north of England/Scotland/Wales quite a bit less, but the general cost of living is still higher than the US everywhere.</p>

<p>Overseas</a> costs and fees</p>

<p>The rules are the same for all applicants, UK or foreign students. You cannot apply to both Oxford and Cambridge in the same year unless you are applying for an organ scholarship. There is nothing you can do to change this and it's been like this for decades I think. If you apply to both they will just cancel your application.</p>

<p>You must state your subject (effectively your major) on application and it's near impossible to change it. So if you can't decide the UK is a very bad choice for you. It's all about being focussed on your subject, as people have noted above. The exact opposite of the well-roundedness that US colleges are looking for. This is the reason very few US students get into Oxbridge direct from a US high school. Most have completed a year at a US college first. There are absolutely loads of American students here (about 800 in Oxford) but the vast majority of them are graduate students, as there are more scholarships and the differing schools systems don't matter so much at this level. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
colleges at oxford are essentially "mini-oxfords"....each of them has their own tutors in each subject, own library, own classroom, own clubs, own lodging....its sth like a big farm divided into small farms, each tended by its own farmer but still growing the same crops (not very efficient, but thats the tradition)....so all the law tutors at each college together forms oxford's law faculty/department, which is more of an administrative organ....same for cambridge

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</p>

<p>This is quite a good way of explaining it. Basically a college is like a dorm really. It's where you live and socialise (though you can of course visit your friends in other colleges). Depending on your subject you might gets lots of in college teaching, or you might get very little (especially in a small subjects with few tutors, you may be sent to another college. Or you can request a tutor in another college if you want to speak to someone specific). But lectures are always central involving all students doing that subject across the whole university.</p>

<p>I don't think British people are racist. Of course I'm not saying there is no racism, there is everywhere in the world, but I've never come across it in a UK university. It's certainly no more racist than the US. There is a lower percentage of people of ethnic minority in the UK than the US, obviously. Plus there are similar issues such as black students tending to do poorly at (high) school, linked to poverty, and therefore being less likely to get in to the best universities (basically black students at Oxbridge are nearly all foreign students). Asian students are over-represented in universities, like the US. Cowley in East Oxford, where many students live including me, is an Asian area containing two mosques (and the ubiquitous curry houses that are a compulsory part of life in England).</p>

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<p>Just wanted to add to cupcake's excellent post to mention that many of Oxford's colleges do in fact offer second-year accommodation; Oriel, to which I'm heading, is one. I'd advise that the OP research beforehand to find out which colleges offer full-degree accommodation, and go from there.</p>

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<p>^Thanks for the posts. Are there specific colleges that accommodate PPE students? Right now, I'm considering whether I should even apply to PPE which I'm interested in the most. (first step done, I guess) But a lot of people tells me how difficult it is to get into PPE so I'm very uncertain. That 20% admission rate looks very deceiving...</p>