<p>One of the things I've noticed on these sites is the complete lack of knowledge of how much people earn or can earn. I read statements from college students asking if they'll make 300K a year when they graduate for example. I posted on another site an article from the NYTimes from 2005 that stated the median income for the highest income census tract in Manhattan was 188K a year in arguably the most expensive area to live in the US. Yet, I continually read how people making more than that are "middle class"????</p>
<p>This is a conversation that I hesitate to enter. We can afford to pay the full boat - not because we are "rich", but because at this point in life after having the right opportunites, working hard and not being extravagant, we can do it. I feel very fortunate, and am happy to be able to provide this opportunity for my kids. Hopefully us paying full tuition gives the school the chance to give some other family who is not as fortunate the funds they need. Every year I say that I could have redone all 2 and 1/2 of our 50's era bathrooms with the money we spend on tuition room and board. But I gladly spend the money to provide for the educate of my children. And the big difference is that they could choose their school without consideration of cost - which is a luxury not lost on me.</p>
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it never made sense to me that colleges don't assume that their own college grads won't have the means to repay part of their tuition
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<p>First of all, most lower income students need to take out loans for college. In fact, the bulk of federal aid dollars are in the form of loans & work-study -- only the very poorest qualify for Pell grants. It is only a very small percentage of colleges that waive loans for low-income students. </p>
<p>Secondly, I think that students who come from lower-income families are probably less able to shoulder the burden of loans simply because overall family resources are less. Every step of the way, these kids are picking up more of their own costs. For example... who pays for travel? books? Is there a home for the kid to return to after college, or is the parent a renter who moves to a smaller apartment as the family size is reduced? </p>
<p>I know that when my kids graduate I won't expect or ask them to send a dime of their earnings my way .... but that kid I mentioned who lives up the block probably has already been contributing her earnings to help with her mom's household expenses for years. </p>
<p>Finally -- just because the college doesn't require the student to take out loans as part of their financial aid package doesn't mean that the loans aren't being taken out anyway. College accounting for "cost of attendance" is a tricky thing -- it doesn't always match with reality of all the day-to-day expenses entailed with attending college. Students can and do borrow even when the loan is not part of their financial aid package.</p>
<p>Ok I am one of those lame people who has read most, but not all, of the replies. But as a parent of two -who has saved for over 19 years just for college-can say we never imagined how much we would need to save for 2 to go to college with us paying the whole bill. What-if private we are talking about $320,000? We have paid for one but the thought of the 2nd is taking our breath away. AND we did plan and save but who predicted the 2008 prices?</p>
<p>For those who think all aid should be loans and no grants : How many hard working wage earners do you think are prohibited by credit (either poor or not good enough ) from taking out Plus loans? Or Plus loans sufficient to allow ...even $10K a year? Remember those loans require you to qualify not only on credit history, but asset/debt ratios, and current cash-flow and income . Less income, less borrowing.</p>
<p>And calmom, makes another great point. The fact there are "no loans" means simply that the kid can take out that federal loan to pay what the schools don't put in the COA. Even the kids who get full tuition, room and board are still not free. Books, taxes, transportation, clothing, communication, health care, dental, haircuts, enrichment, ...it's a long list.</p>
<p>Emory has a no-loan FA program for students from families whose income is less than $50k, and loans are capped at $15k for students from families with incomes between $50K and $100K. Emory</a> Advantage</p>
<p>Exactly! (Post 265) Asset/debt ratios, esp., is a big factor.</p>
<p>Here is one very sobering statistic. My son did a future value analysis of tuition in 16 years assuming an average increasee of 6% of tuition,which has been the inflation increases over the past 20 year. Guess how much tuition for ONE year will be per kid!?.........</p>
<p>Answer:</p>
<p>$100,000 per year, per kid!</p>
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$100,000 per year, per kid!
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<p>Shoot me.</p>
<p>I guess the grandkids will all be Aggies or T-sips. That'll only be $70K.</p>
<p>Or,</p>
<p>That'll still be less than a tank of gas.</p>
<p>I could only find the starting salary for Emory's undergraduate business majors, but it is $55,000. Undergrad</a> - BSchools</p>
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. Books, taxes, transportation, clothing, communication, health care, dental, haircuts, enrichment,
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<p>Other than books, those expenses shouldn't be much different at college than they were at home, and in some cases less (daily transportation costs to and from school may go away).</p>
<p>Additionally, since board is covered, food costs also go away.</p>
<p>Whether here or there bay, it still costs money.</p>
<p>How about this idea: loans that are to be repay by a percentage of income after graduation. So a doctor that works in rural clinic paying only a small amount, but the plastic surgeon in LA has to pay big bucks.</p>
<p>Yes, but they are not new expenses incurred due to attending college that would necessitate a loan. Wasn't that the point in raising them?</p>
<p>It's money out that somebody has to pay, isn't that the point?</p>
<p>Well, I assumed that the parents were paying those expenses while the student was in high school. So there would be no additional burden on the parents that would necessitate an additional loan. In fact, the parents' expenses will decrease substantially since they will no longer have to purchase food for that child.</p>
<p>In fact, the parents' expenses will decrease substantially since they will no longer have to purchase food for that child.</p>
<p>Dream on bay. It's a nice thought, just doesn't happen.</p>
<p>No need to be rude. You are not following this line of argument. calmom and you stated that there were many college expenses that are not covered by FA packages, and gave some examples. She/you implied that these expenses would require the student to take out additional loans. I'm merely countering that those same items were being paid for while the student was in high school, presumably by the parents, so where is the new need for additional money?</p>
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What-if private we are talking about $320,000? We have paid for one but the thought of the 2nd is taking our breath away. AND we did plan and save but who predicted the 2008 prices?
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What college you are talking about? $320k, before or after tax? Most private now cost about $200k for one kid after the tax.</p>
<p>I like the taxguy and emrad's idea that parents pay tuition and fees out of pocket should get tax deduct. This is 'fair and reasonable' because in FA process both the give and recieve side pay no taxt on 'tuition' part.</p>
<p>DocT, check out this link
<a href="http://www.career.caltech.edu/life/salaries/BS2006%20Salaries.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.career.caltech.edu/life/salaries/BS2006%20Salaries.pdf</a>
The graduate from top tech school start salary well around $65k. The start salary for an inter level job (from any school) in my area is around $60k at east coast. Would be higher at west coast. So basically students from poor family or middle income family shall be able to pay off their loan with their own earning (I read a complaining from B family parents and students in an MIT new FA initiative disscussin thread. thought they have the point). Besides, College should not rely on parents to pay the debet or loan. By the time students graduate parents could well above their retirement age, or falling out of their earning peak. </p>
<p>In my area east coast near NYC, if parents both work, it is very common that family combined income well above $150k. But you have to add a lot cost to just commu to the work. and property tax, living expanse are all among top of the nation.</p>
<p>IMO, when come to college FA, the nation wide censor definition of 'middle' class or median income is misleading. The censor include ALL household, based on filed tax return. While anyone above 18 year old with income has to file the tax return. Now how many family with $50k income has college bound kids?</p>
<p>Finally, I would say I don't envy those less income and assets. We've been there through the porverty probably very littel CCers has been through. We worked hard to climbed out the ditch, and saved hard all these years. We deserve every fortune we made. When some chose to stay home, I chose work; some chose to buy brand new car every 3 years, we are driving used car until 3 years ago; etc. etc. . ... look back all these hard years, I do sympathy the pain that OP feel.</p>
<p>You guys haven't seen my S1. Paying for a college meal plan will cost us MORE than what he currently consumes. Lots more. The family joke is that the Geneva Convention permits more calories than he eats in a day.</p>
<p>S2...better get him an all-you-can-eat plan. Our grocery bill will go down when he leaves.</p>