<p>Ah, mini, I didn't see your post before I added mine!</p>
<p>"Beware of Haverford/Bryn Mawr because many of their advanced Japanese classes haven't been held for at least two years."</p>
<p>What???</p>
<p>Japanese isn't as strong a department at HC as bio, english, physics, history, econ, chem... comp lit, astronomy and philosophy, but to say they don't offer 3rd or 4th year Japanese language instruction in the last 2 years is slanderous. </p>
<p>links to course enrollment Fall 2006 and Spring 2007... where they offer Japanese 1-4 EACH semester.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.haverford.edu/registrar/CourseGuide_Fall/japanese.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.haverford.edu/registrar/CourseGuide_Fall/japanese.html</a>
<a href="http://www.haverford.edu/registrar/CourseGuide_Spring/japanese.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.haverford.edu/registrar/CourseGuide_Spring/japanese.html</a></p>
<p>thank you</p>
<p>"Twinmom and hoosiermom, I think that undergraduate enrollment number for Pitt is the number of bachelor's degrees conferred last year. The freshman class admitted is about 4,000, maybe more."</p>
<p>Oops ... sorry about that! But Pitt does look like a fairly good match for the OP's needs.</p>
<p>"VASSAR </p>
<p>The Major: 17 faculty plus a separate department in Chinese and Japanese. It appears that you can go as far as you like with both languages through independent study. Study abroad is encouraged, though I could not find out much about how its paid for (through college tuition or otherwise).</p>
<p>General: The most common opinion regarding the undergraduate population of Vassar goes something like, "An atypical student here is the sort who would be a _typical student elsewhere." In a place where students "conform by not conforming," the climate remains "very accepting of individuality," prompting one student to describe her peers as "tolerant, almost to the point of apathy." Students say that Vassar's goal is "teaching students to think," and that the college achieves this end by affording undergraduates a high degree of academic freedom. Most students "love that we have no core curriculum," leaving them time to pursue their "genuine interests." Though the "workload is very challenging," students feel supported by their "impressive, friendly, empathetic," and "very encouraging" professors. In their fairly isolated location in the Hudson Valley, most students feel "restricted to on-campus activities." Luckily, "on any given Friday, there's usually a concert, lecture, play, and comedy performance." Surveys repeatedly praise the beautiful campus, the perfect surroundings in which to pursue Vassar students' favorite pastime of all: "finding yourself."</p>
<p>Other: #11 students ignore God on a regular basis, #10 great college theater, #12 reefer madness, #10 student most nostalgic for Bill Clinton, #11 Birkenstock wearing, tree-hugging, clove smoking vegetarians, #10 more to do on campus, #8 town-gown relations are strained."</p>
<p>I don't know anything about the Japanese major ... but that aside, I'd have to say that most of this is fairly accurate. Financial aid does indeed follow study abroad opportunities. And as for students nostalgic for Bill Clinton ... the campus Democrats sponsored a trip to meet him at a rally just this week! The comments about the workload, encouraging professors, and learning to think are all true as well - haven't heard of much apathy though ... and I think there's plenty of kids there who are not ignoring God!</p>
<p>"to say they don't offer 3rd or 4th year Japanese language instruction in the last 2 years is slanderous. "</p>
<p>I said "advanced Japanese classes"; I meant not the language itself, but what you do <em>after</em> you finish advanced Japanese. In the end, my d ruled out Haverford/Bryn Mawr because the advanced Japanese classes in the catalogue had NOT been offered for the past two years, primarily because there are so few professors. I guess all it takes is one East Asian studies professor to go on sabbatical to cut out a lot of the courses.</p>
<p>And it's not "slanderous."</p>
<p>Sorry to hijack this post but I’d like to clarify a few things. </p>
<p>Almost anyone who reads “Advanced Japanese” would assume you’re referring to 3rd or 4th year Japanese. By contrast, “Introductory Japanese” would be 1st year Japanese. Not quite sure what you meant with “after advanced Japanese”. If you take 1st year Japanese your freshman year and then finally complete 4th year Japanese, don’t you graduate by then?</p>
<p>Yes, there are trade offs with going to a LAC. When professors go on sabbatical, those classes are not offered. However, to suggest that the colleges leave their students stranded during these absences is highly inaccurate. Visiting professors (often recommended by the professor on sabbatical) are brought in to teach new classes during these times… which can actually add variety and new perspectives to the curriculum… if they didn’t, according to your statement that “no advanced Japanese classes were offered in TWO years”, then Japanese and East Asian Civ majors wouldn’t have been able to graduate in 4 years. </p>
<p>PS: stating inaccurate facts that may harm a reputation… isn’t that slander? And, just between you and me, your post brings another word to mind... “euphemism”. :)</p>
<p>"Slander" involves blatantly untrue and damaging spoken statements made about an individual. "Libel" is in written form, but it also must attack a person. </p>
<p>To get back to Haverford, I stand by my assertion because my daughter researched Haverford's program; it was an option for her. She laid out the courses she wanted to take for the major, and was dismayed that most of them were not offered last year. I then told her, thinking it was just last year, to go back to see whether they were offered the previous year. They were not.</p>
<p>No, you don't want to study only the language when you are a major. You want to be able to read literature (not in translation) and learn more about the culture. My daughter would have entered either already in intermediate Japanese or (if the program was similar to Lehigh's) advanced Japanese. She expected to be done with the language-only study by the end of her freshman or sophomore year. For a Japanese studies major, advanced studies in the language involves much more than studying the language. I was not inacurate in any way. When compared to my daughter's other options, it did not come out on top.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. I think Haverford is an excellent school. I just don't think their East Asian studies/languages program is as strong as their other departments - or as strong as it is at some other colleges - primarily because it does not regularly offer the related courses in its catalogue. If you are looking at possibly pursuing the study at a graduate level, this matters greatly. Obviously, if a student was already at Haverford and THEN decided to major in Japanese, he would still get a good education. However, if an applicant already knows that she wants to study Japanese and given the choices available nationwide, Haverford is not the best choice.</p>
<p>MAC-
Can you plese clarify? Which is a higher priority for you? Location of the scholarship $? I see that your D. is considering the ASU Honors program, given her NMSF status. If she is opening the options up to schools further west, that opens lots of doors for her.</p>
<p>Momwaiting:</p>
<p>In the end, my son eliminated Haverford as well, but for different reasons. Yet, it was our understanding at the time that it would be possible for him to take grad level courses in Japaneses at Penn if he attended Haverford.</p>
<p>Was that understanding inaccurate?</p>
<p>Check out U Del. I think it has a Japanese major. At least I know someone who's studying Japanese there and is pleased with his education.</p>
<p>Earlham also has Japanese studies and for a very long time has offered students the opportunity to study in Japan. Also, Japanese students study at Earlham.</p>
<p>It is in the Midwest, but I do think that your D needs to broaden her criteria.</p>
<p>to the OP-- you're getting a lot of good suggestions here.</p>
<p>However... perhaps it would help your daughter to clarify her thinking if instead of telling what she doesn't want in a campus culture, she could enumerate what she does want? i.e. kids who volunteer in the community, kids who go rafting or climbing on weekends; kids who attend symphony or opera; etc. Every school beyond a certain size will have boozers and preppies et al.... but if she can drill down to what she wants for herself, it may help narrow the field.</p>
<p>The U of Wisconsin-Madison - NO WAY, it meets most of the negative criteria. After all, they did raise OOS tuition to discourage those radical hippies from NY back at the height of the Vietnam War...and as we all know it's a huge PARTY school, that's why my NMF CC runner son was allowed to go there (BTW, he's underage so we could veto by refusing to sign any housing contracts...). </p>
<p>Seriously, my alma mater is as many things to as many different people you talk to. Many New Yorkers still come to Wis. Do not fall for the free ride at any college unless you really want to go there, eg ASU. Everyone else did a great job giving advice on prioritizing. Consider that your daughter may even change her major so it is very important that the whole school be a good fit. Location, however, is the most important issue. The best school in the world can be wrong if it is too far away from home. As much as I would like to plug UW-Madison she would be an inconvenient set of flights home for weekend travel, on the other hand if she didn't need to get home often she would find a great place to be months at a time. Location is a reason most people go to college in their own region, or return after a time away, let her insist on this criteria. Having a Japanese major does not equate with having a good one so she'll have to dig further into the academics- so much easier now with so much info online. For example, check the timetable, not only the course catalog.</p>
<p>Tarhunt,</p>
<p>Haverford and Bryn Mawr seem to be the same school but with two campuses because of the way they have completely integrated their academics. From what I understood, it's extremely easy to go between those two (the bus leaves every 15 minutes or so.) If my daughter had gone to one of those two schools, she would have studied French at Bryn Mawr and Japanese at Haverford. </p>
<p>We asked the students about studying at Swat and UPenn; they said that Swat was more difficult than commuting between Haverford and Bryn Mawr, but that Penn was REALLY challenging. One student took an upper level biology class at UPenn and had to make sure she didn't have any other classes locally on those days. </p>
<p>I really liked the students and the college environment at Haverford.</p>
<p>Momwaiting:</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>1) If looking Vassar & Northwestern, maybe try Wellesley? Not much drugs & alcohol there as I recall</p>
<p>2) College selection frequently involves compromising; relaxing some constraints.</p>
<p>I can tell you that East Asian Studies is an outstanding program at Oberlin; however some other schools may fit better due to other stated preferences.</p>
<p>I think you are wrong. There are a dozen perfect schools at least for every kid. Your job is to find three or four. Check out collegedata.com, I found a base of 29 schools that fit your basic criteria: size, location and major. Cross check with Minis Preppy index to eliminate the most prep of the schools and you should have a working base. As for party schools you have nothing like Chico State, San Diego State or Colorado in the East. So dont worry too much about it. </p>
<p>I find it strange not to consider schools in the west but she may not like the culture out here. ASU Honors is good choice and so would University of Oregon Honors. </p>
<p>I also feel lucky. My daughter loved her safety and had her other choices narrowed to two other schools by this time. By November 15th we were done. I just got back from visiting her and she is very happy with her choice.</p>
<p>One thing I have noticed: Some kids turn over perfectly good schools because in their hearts they just can't see themselves going to college ANY WHERE just yet. In some cases, deep down they're afraid of being rejected and not falling in love with any particular school is a self-protective measure. In other cases, they're clinging to life as they know it (i.e., high school, home), and aren't yet ready to picture themselves letting go of that. And, in a few cases, they have an inflated image of what college will be like and that prevents them from seeing REAL colleges objectively.</p>
<p>My advice: Make sure she understands that right now, her goal is to APPLY to the schools that come closest to her "wish list", not to make the final choice. Stop worrying about adding MORE schools at this point. Focus solely on narrowing down the schools she's already looked at or considered and de-emphasize worrying about the final choice until you know the results. That will relieve some of the doubt and indecision, and you'll probably find that when she has five or six offers in hand, she'll do a fine job of realistically weighing their differences.</p>
<p>Truth is, your kid may not find a Japanese program she likes. I took the equivalent of six years of Japanese in HS in a great, well-credentialed program (teacher serves on several national language boards, has received numerous teaching awards, etc); by the fifth year, we are reading, translating, and writing long essays on authentic Japanese materials (magazine articles, short stories, poetry analysis, etc.) and translating short (2-4 page) essays from English to Japanese (difficult!). Students were expected to speak in Japanese at all times and class was held in Japanese most of the time (including project explanations!). I attend a university known for a strong and after much arguing, got admitted to the second year class [won't let me type and said they couldn't read my writing]. I'm really surprised at the quality here. The class the said would be "muzukashii"[difficult]? The students are just now learning to say things like "may I?" "if," "...than" etc. that we learned ages ago. Moreso, the kids are literally spoon-fed the tests, as in given the actual questions to do before hand, given reading material that is almost word-for-word from the book, given essay topics that are more or less the same as already done homework, etc. The class is not taught in Japanese and while the teacher does speak to the class in Japanese, it doesn;t seem as frequent or authentic as whatwe did in HS. The students are very uneven in what they know (know some fairly difficult kanji/vocab, but just now learned how to say "mom" and "dad"), so apart from the occasional kanji ir vocab word, the class is pretty much a fairly basic review for me. I miss reading, writing, and thinking critically; I miss authentic materials, and having a classroom built on USING Japanese. It has potential and some good qualities (the teacher does tell stories in Japanese), but for a program that puffed itself up so much, I was honestly expecting much more.</p>
<p>With the notable exception of a kid who went to Georgetown (found the Japanese program very difficult there), most everyone from my program have been disappointed with their colleges' (George Washington, UTexas, Texas State, etc) Japanese programs in comparsion to ours. A good Japanese program, imho, is very hard to findand treasure to have.</p>
<p>As an aside, I don't remember anything bad (or good) comments made about the Japanese program at Claremount McKenna by the student who want there. Maybe you should look at Scripps?</p>
<p>"The class is not taught in Japanese "</p>
<p>This was one of the differences between Lehigh and Smith. At Smith, in first semester intermediate, the class is taught entirely in Japanese; at Lehigh, even during the FINAL semester of intermediate, the class was taught in English, although the students were tested frequently on "speaking". (My daughter spent time living with a Japanese family, so she had a fairly good speaking command of Japanese that she started to lose in that classroom environment.)</p>
<p>It's not uncommon for Japanese to be taught in English, so it's best to sit in on a class before deciding on the specific college.</p>
<p>Excellent advice, Carolyn!</p>
<p>The trickiest part of the equation is senior year maturity. Often what the student <em>thinks</em> she wants in November is not what she wants in April. If she applies to a range of schools that meet her basic criteria, then she can make the final selection once she has her acceptances in hand. We had planned to drop everything once the acceptances came in to visit all the schools one last time, but, in the end, we only visited two out of seven since my D had a much better idea of what she wanted.</p>